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Response to "no scientific evidence" of ghost


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#16    Frank Merton

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:46 PM

View PostAggie, on 11 September 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Beware...the aliens from Alpha Centauri are very silent....
As are ghosts, which is why I don't think "ghost" when I hear a thump in the night.


#17    Aggie

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:47 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 11 September 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

As are ghosts, which is why I don't think "ghost" when I hear a thump in the night.

You haven't watched enough ghost movies then, throwing things, shaking chains, dragging chairs, etc.

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#18    Frank Merton

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:50 PM

View PostAggie, on 11 September 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

You haven't watched enough ghost movies then, throwing things, shaking chains, dragging chairs, etc.
I try to imagine a disembodied spirit, and I can see no way they could make noise, Hollywood or no Hollywood.


#19    sam_comm

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:46 PM

I've seen some good evidences, heard some very interesting accounts, to me there is very little doubt that this kind of phenomenon occur. As for what it is, no one can really tell. Is it Grand-pa that is coming back, some unexplained form of life taking the shape of or psychokenesis and psychic projections? I do not know.

You know science has proved to be an efficient mean to understand things but it would be incorrect to tell that as far as today it can answer everything. Fundemental questions have some far been left unanswered: Is there life after Death? What is the Universe/Multiverse? What is the true nature of (un)conscioussness? That is still very much an open debate. As for myself, I have no difficulty to accept the possibility that some unexplained phenomenon can elude the rigorous scientific method based on hard data and models. Even these rigourous models may be subject to change, as has been the case throughout the history of science. It should not be a dogma. Our understanding and how we achieve it is still very much a work in progress. Therefore, if materiels evidences of 'ghosts' cannot be so far reproduced scientifically in a controled environment in doesn't ruled out the phenomenon in itself to me, it may be that there are things that escape our graps or are not subjet to it.

Edited by sam_comm, 11 September 2013 - 04:53 PM.


#20    Frank Merton

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:50 PM

I live in a country just riddled with reports of ghosts.  It is a cultural phenomenon -- the ghosts reported differ from culture to culture so we can readily discount all of these reports.

Personally I think ghosts are likely as a transition from one life to another, but it is very unlikely they would have detectable manifestations that we could see or hear, and it does no good asserting there is evidence for them when the evidence is entirely testimonial.


#21    sam_comm

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:33 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 11 September 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

I live in a country just riddled with reports of ghosts.  It is a cultural phenomenon -- the ghosts reported differ from culture to culture so we can readily discount all of these reports.

I disagree with this logic. I think what differs is the interpretation from one cultur to another of the phenomenon. That doesn't ruled out in any way the legtitimacy of some these reports.

View PostFrank Merton, on 11 September 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Personally I think ghosts are likely as a transition from one life to another, but it is very unlikely they would have detectable manifestations that we could see or hear, and it does no good asserting there is evidence for them when the evidence is entirely testimonial.

The evidence is not enterily testimonial, some investigators have been able to capture very interesting material evidences and anomalies in allegedly haunted locations. Of course, as it stands today it's hard to know what is legit and what is faked evidence, with the technologies and software which allows to fabricate false pictures and videos. But I do not think that all invesitgators gives themselves to this activity of creating false proofs.

The problem of 'scientific' proofs applied to this phenomenon is that you may catch unexplained shadows, apparitions, disembodied voices, knocking sounds ect which have found no rational explanations but they cannot be reproduced in a controlled environments through experiments. It's an once upon a time spontaneous manifestation of activity in which it would appear that we have no control over. Therefore it cannot enter the actual scientific models. It needs a major rethinking of what can or cannot be consider ''real'' and how to prove it.

Edited by sam_comm, 11 September 2013 - 07:37 PM.


#22    davros of skaro

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:45 PM

There is no evidence.

My experiences are not evidence,nor would I consider them proof for anyone else.

Leg pulling,or lack of critical thinking are common factors in peoples stories that back peddles the research from a serious level.

Keep in mind science is limited,and it's like trying to prove sustained manned flight with stone age tools.

Keep in mind that maybe...Just maybe we come here willingly???

We can be just hyper dimensional beings tethered to a modified Monkey suit with a memory wipe?

Just maybe where we really come from is boring,and we come here for the experience???

If this pure speculation was indeed was the case in one form,or the other?Then there would be an active effort by hyper dimensional intelligences that are not bound by linear physical conventions to prevent evidence that would be of consencous to science?

Meanwhile Mankind has to take care of what it has,because afterlife,or not there is only one Earth.We are divided,superstitious,
warlike,and many other things that would make intergalactic neighbors see us as a hot Potato.

Just something to think about which I am sure others here have thought of allready.

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#23    Razer

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:50 PM

If someone said that, I would agree with them.  My wife watches those paranormal "reality" tv shows, drives me nuts.


#24    Razer

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:01 PM

View Postdavros of skaro, on 11 September 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:


Meanwhile Mankind has to take care of what it has,because afterlife,or not there is only one Earth.We are divided,superstitious,
warlike,and many other things that would make intergalactic neighbors see us as a hot Potato.

Luckily we are so far away technologically from getting anywhere near another solar system that they don't have to worry about us.


#25    sam_comm

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:45 PM

View Postdavros of skaro, on 11 September 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

There is no evidence.


I would rather say: There is no undisputable scientific proofs of Ghosts and Entities. That would be more accurate. There is plenty of materiel evidences and for all to see. Just contact serious paranormal groups and ask them where can find some fo their greatest findings. I do not think that all one can see is faked and frabricated evidences though that is now become frequent and overshadow what can be consider legit.

The problems lies in the fact that they cannot be reproduced through a scientific experiement in a controlled environment. They're are, as might be fitting to say, once upon a time spontaneous manifestations of activity. Therefore these audio, videos, pictures are most likely to be quickly rejected by the scientific community.

Edited by sam_comm, 13 September 2013 - 03:50 PM.


#26    Frank Merton

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:56 PM

My real problem is theoretical.  A "ghost" is the spirit of someone who has died and left their body, so what are they?  They would be disembodied.  That means no body -- nothing physical.

If they are aware of their surroundings at all, it would have to be via senses we don't notice, as they would be sans eyes, sans ears, sans fingers.  So asserting they are able to see or to make noise or move objects just doesn't make sense.


#27    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:43 PM

View PostInn Spectre, on 11 September 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

I would say it's a meaningless and misleading statement.
Just because today's science cannot (or more accurately has not been used to) show the existence of such phenomena, does not mean it will not happen in the future.
People have been trying to prove ghosts using modern science since modern science first existed.
Try again.

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#28    Inn Spectre

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:35 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 13 September 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

People have been trying to prove ghosts using modern science since modern science first existed.
Try again.

"People" have tried to prove the existence of ghosts with methods they may consider swcientific, but show me where actual scientists have used their resources for so doing.


#29    Frank Merton

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:51 AM

I suspect "actual scientists" have looked into it many times, seen that there was nothing there, and so gone on to other topics where there is real science to be done.


#30    Brian Topp

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:02 AM

Come on people "actual scientists? they are more rare than ghosts and bigfoot

It is easier to claim it is paranormal than taking the hard route and find out what really happened.





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