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New lead in the Zodiac Killer Case ?


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#16    susieice

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 07:12 PM

Thanks for the site name JVE. I looked through and I kind of took an interest in this guy. What do you know about him?

http://www.zodiackil...tGaikowski.html

Sounds like he may have had a connection with Darlene or at least her husband at the time. Interesting he worked for a newspaper and that he hung around where he'd be close to information about the investigation. Kind of like a lot of killers are known to do. He does kind of resemble the man in the picture.

Edited by susieice, 20 March 2011 - 07:13 PM.

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#17    JonathanVonErich

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 07:27 PM

 susieice, on 20 March 2011 - 07:12 PM, said:

Thanks for the site name JVE. I looked through and I kind of took an interest in this guy. What do you know about him?

http://www.zodiackil...tGaikowski.html

Sounds like he may have had a connection with Darlene or at least her husband at the time. Interesting he worked for a newspaper and that he hung around where he'd be close to information about the investigation. Kind of like a lot of killers are known to do. He does kind of resemble the man in the picture.
Richard Gaikowski is a very good suspect but I don't believe he was The Zodiac Killer. There is only circumstantial evidence tying him to the case. I mean some of the "evidences" are strong ( He looks a lot like the sketch, Nancy slover, the former Vallejo Police Dept. switchboard operator who spoke to Zodiac early in the morning of July 5, 1969, said that Gaikowski's voice was the same voice the Zodiac had after she listened to samples of Gaikowski's voice ) but we have nothing solid against him, and sadly he died in 2004 so we can't talk to him or ask him to give his DNA.

Edited by JVE, 20 March 2011 - 07:28 PM.


#18    susieice

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 09:02 PM

The article on this Gaikowski also says that Darlene got married and moved to Albany,NY. Him and her husband worked at rival newspapers. Is it possible that the picture was taken there? Sounds like he may have followed them. Anti-police and working for a newspaper may explain all the letters the Zodiac sent. No way to exhume the body for DNA, but since he was arrested earlier, wouldn't his fingerprints be on file? I'd really like to get a closer look at this guy. He peaks my interest.

Edited by susieice, 20 March 2011 - 09:07 PM.

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#19    JonathanVonErich

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 09:34 PM

 susieice, on 20 March 2011 - 09:02 PM, said:

The article on this Gaikowski also says that Darlene got married and moved to Albany,NY. Him and her husband worked at rival newspapers. Is it possible that the picture was taken there? Sounds like he may have followed them. Anti-police and working for a newspaper may explain all the letters the Zodiac sent. No way to exhume the body for DNA, but since he was arrested earlier, wouldn't his fingerprints be on file? I'd really like to get a closer look at this guy. He peaks my interest.
In my opinion Gaikowski is an interesting suspect, yes, but I don't think he was the Zodiac Killer. I have read almost anything there is to read about him and I have a feeling that Gaikowski is not the Zodiac. The problem with Gaikowski being the Zodiac is that people (including myself) have investigated the possibility of Gaikowski being the Zodiac for Months and we have still no solid evidences against him, so for now Gaikowski remains simply a suspect like many others. Gaikowski first became a suspect in the Zodiac case in the late 80's when a man named “Blaine Blaine” (also known as “Purple Blaine,” “Goldcatcher” and “Zakatarious”), who had worked with Gaikowski for the underground newspaper the GOOD TIMES, was convinced Gaikowski was Zodiac after reading Robert Graysmith’s book. However "Blaine" is not credible and seems to have an agenda against Gaikowski and he never had evidences to backup his claims.

Gaikowski could be the Zodiac, yes, but I'm still waiting for a solid evidence, and for now we have nothing against him. The fact Nancy Slover said that Gaikowski's voice was the same voice the Zodiac had after she listened to samples of his voice means nothing to me, after all she did it for a TV show called MysteryQuest, she must have felt the pressure of giving an answer, and I just have a hard time believing that after 40 years she could still remember the voice of a man who talked to her for less than 3 minutes.

About the fingerprints: I'm sure the authorities have Gaikowski's fingerprints in their file, but sadly we don't have one fingerprint belonging to Zodiac, so we can't compare the two.

But I think Gaikowski is perhaps the best suspect we have right now, but It doesn't mean I believe he was indeed the Killer.

Edited by JVE, 20 March 2011 - 09:51 PM.


#20    MstrMsn

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 04:30 AM

The unknown guy in the picture and the guy in the sketch do have subtle differences.

First, look at the hair. The guy in the photo has a part of the left, that's not something that is easy to get rid of by combing your hair back.

Second, look at the ear lobes.

Third, the jaw line doesn't quite match.

The sketch does mostly resemble Gaikowski more than this mystery man, however, it also matches one of my uncles (I know it wasn't him, he was KIA in 65).

Also, I really don't think that the man in the photo is/was her ex-husband. If the photo was taken shortly after they married, both would actually look happier than they do. They both look like someone is making them stand there for the photo.

Edited by MstrMsn, 21 March 2011 - 04:35 AM.

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#21    MstrMsn

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 04:44 AM

 JVE, on 20 March 2011 - 09:34 PM, said:

In my opinion Gaikowski is an interesting suspect, yes, but I don't think he was the Zodiac Killer. I have read almost anything there is to read about him and I have a feeling that Gaikowski is not the Zodiac. The problem with Gaikowski being the Zodiac is that people (including myself) have investigated the possibility of Gaikowski being the Zodiac for Months and we have still no solid evidences against him, so for now Gaikowski remains simply a suspect like many others. Gaikowski first became a suspect in the Zodiac case in the late 80's when a man named “Blaine Blaine” (also known as “Purple Blaine,” “Goldcatcher” and “Zakatarious”), who had worked with Gaikowski for the underground newspaper the GOOD TIMES, was convinced Gaikowski was Zodiac after reading Robert Graysmith’s book. However "Blaine" is not credible and seems to have an agenda against Gaikowski and he never had evidences to backup his claims.

Gaikowski could be the Zodiac, yes, but I'm still waiting for a solid evidence, and for now we have nothing against him. The fact Nancy Slover said that Gaikowski's voice was the same voice the Zodiac had after she listened to samples of his voice means nothing to me, after all she did it for a TV show called MysteryQuest, she must have felt the pressure of giving an answer, and I just have a hard time believing that after 40 years she could still remember the voice of a man who talked to her for less than 3 minutes.

About the fingerprints: I'm sure the authorities have Gaikowski's fingerprints in their file, but sadly we don't have one fingerprint belonging to Zodiac, so we can't compare the two.

But I think Gaikowski is perhaps the best suspect we have right now, but It doesn't mean I believe he was indeed the Killer.


And all this is why the Zodiac will always be a mystery. He is by far the most elusive serial killer we have (meaning the US, the UK has the Ripper).
I feel we may never know who he really is.

I also think that this mystery guy should be looked at for a connection with other Zodiac victims (at least to eliminate him as a suspect). Think about it, Bundy, Ramirez, Berkowitz, Kenneth Bianchi and Angelo Buono... they all had some form of interaction with their victims before they killed them.

We are born with 2 fears: Falling, and loud noises, all others are LEARNED.
You say fear is all in the mind. I say you are right; for it is our imagination that makes things seem scary.
If you want to learn how to not be afraid, ask.

#22    dekker87

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 12:19 PM

 JVE, on 20 March 2011 - 03:06 AM, said:

Thanks for the pics, Boo.  :tu:

Like I said some people believe the "Unknown man" of the picture is Darlene's ex-Husband, Mr. James(Jim) Phillips. In my opinion Mr. Phillips doesn't really looks like the man on the picture, I could be wrong but to me they don't look alike.

Posted Image
(Courtesy: A&E Community)

Mr. Phillips is on the left, The mystery man is on the right. To me they don't look alike. The jaw, the nose, the ears....


are you kidding me!?!? even stevie wonder can see that that is the same person!!

said it b4 and i'll keep saying it - there is no zodiac killer as we understand it...it was a media creation fed by a police conspiracy and the active imaginations of journalists.


#23    ~TheBigK~

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 05:24 PM

 dekker87, on 21 March 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

are you kidding me!?!? even stevie wonder can see that that is the same person!!

said it b4 and i'll keep saying it - there is no zodiac killer as we understand it...it was a media creation fed by a police conspiracy and the active imaginations of journalists.
Several of us have pointed out differences in the pictures. The unknown man has a longer face, a longer and thinner nose, different ears and different hair as MstrMsn said. They do look similar, but definitely not the same person if you ask me.

Posted Image

#24    JonathanVonErich

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 08:16 PM

 dekker87, on 21 March 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

are you kidding me!?!? even stevie wonder can see that that is the same person!!

said it b4 and i'll keep saying it - there is no zodiac killer as we understand it...it was a media creation fed by a police conspiracy and the active imaginations of journalists.
Look at the nose, the jaw, the ears... Sorry but I don't think The Unknown man is indeed Jim Phillips. Remember: The picture was first showed 4 months ago, then it was showed 1 month ago on a very popular TV show watched by millions and millions of people, so if indeed the Unknown man was Darlene's ex-Husband mr. Phillips then why did nobody from Darlene's past (Sisters, Family, Friends, ex-Husband himself) came forward to reveal the identity of this man ???!!! The fact that after 4 long months nobody came forward with a name is to me proof that the man on the picture is not her ex-husband/Family member/Close friend.

And I have read everything about the Zodiac Killer case, I have researched this case since 2000, have been in communication with many investigators who have worked on the case and In my opinion your theory doesn't make any sense. First of all you have no evidence to back up your claims. Show me the evidence sir, that's all I want. After years of reading everything about the case, asking questions to people who know everything about it, after buying 5 books on the case I never found anything, never found one single piece of evidence telling me that your theory is true. I think it's an interesting theory, but you have no evidence to back it up, sorry.

I have heard, read about this theory claiming that The police conspired to create a Serial Killer(Zodiac) simply to take care of some people who were involved in a Drug ring.

Right now all we know is: Betty Lou Jensen, David Faraday, Darlene, Cecelia Shepard and Paul Stine are all definite Zodiac victims. So the police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murders of a 17 years old boy and a 16 years old girl, who were very good students, simply because David was buying a little bit of drugs here and there ?? And then the police wrote a letter to themself, providing many details that were not known to the general public, simply to create a Serial killer !??

So the police Conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Darlene Ferrin, then writing letters and sent them to the Vallejo Times-Herald, San Francisco Examiner and San Francisco Chronicle, giving details that only the killer could have known !??

The police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Cecelia Shepard and attack on Bryan Hartnell, two respected students who have no criminal past, two students who were Attacked on Daytime by a man wearing a costume featuring the symbol of the Zodiac Killer !!??

And the police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Paul Stine, a man with no criminal past,  then sent a letter to the San Francisco Chronicle containing a portion of Stine's bloody shirt !!??

The police wrote more than 20 letters/cards/ciphers to the Newspapers/Authorities simply to create a Serial Killer !!??

I respect your opinion sir, but your theory doesn't make any sense to me, and I know for a fact that most people agree with me. But if you have something to back up your claims then please share with all of us.  :tu:

Edited by JVE, 21 March 2011 - 09:15 PM.


#25    maninthepicture

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 01:24 PM

I know his name

Attached Files


Edited by maninthepicture, 22 March 2011 - 01:27 PM.


#26    JonathanVonErich

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 11:41 PM

 maninthepicture, on 22 March 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

I know his name
Well if this is true then try to give the information to The FBI or to one of the police department in the Bay area ( San Francisco and around ).

If it's a joke ( I'm sure it is ) then forget it... :mellow:

Still no update about the picture, keeping you posted.


#27    dekker87

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 10:56 AM

 maninthepicture, on 22 March 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

I know his name

John Merrick?


#28    dekker87

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 11:25 AM

 JVE, on 21 March 2011 - 08:16 PM, said:

Look at the nose, the jaw, the ears... Sorry but I don't think The Unknown man is indeed Jim Phillips. Remember: The picture was first showed 4 months ago, then it was showed 1 month ago on a very popular TV show watched by millions and millions of people, so if indeed the Unknown man was Darlene's ex-Husband mr. Phillips then why did nobody from Darlene's past (Sisters, Family, Friends, ex-Husband himself) came forward to reveal the identity of this man ???!!! The fact that after 4 long months nobody came forward with a name is to me proof that the man on the picture is not her ex-husband/Family member/Close friend.

And I have read everything about the Zodiac Killer case, I have researched this case since 2000, have been in communication with many investigators who have worked on the case and In my opinion your theory doesn't make any sense. First of all you have no evidence to back up your claims. Show me the evidence sir, that's all I want. After years of reading everything about the case, asking questions to people who know everything about it, after buying 5 books on the case I never found anything, never found one single piece of evidence telling me that your theory is true. I think it's an interesting theory, but you have no evidence to back it up, sorry.

I have heard, read about this theory claiming that The police conspired to create a Serial Killer(Zodiac) simply to take care of some people who were involved in a Drug ring.

Right now all we know is: Betty Lou Jensen, David Faraday, Darlene, Cecelia Shepard and Paul Stine are all definite Zodiac victims. So the police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murders of a 17 years old boy and a 16 years old girl, who were very good students, simply because David was buying a little bit of drugs here and there ?? And then the police wrote a letter to themself, providing many details that were not known to the general public, simply to create a Serial killer !??

So the police Conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Darlene Ferrin, then writing letters and sent them to the Vallejo Times-Herald, San Francisco Examiner and San Francisco Chronicle, giving details that only the killer could have known !??

The police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Cecelia Shepard and attack on Bryan Hartnell, two respected students who have no criminal past, two students who were Attacked on Daytime by a man wearing a costume featuring the symbol of the Zodiac Killer !!??

And the police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Paul Stine, a man with no criminal past,  then sent a letter to the San Francisco Chronicle containing a portion of Stine's bloody shirt !!??

The police wrote more than 20 letters/cards/ciphers to the Newspapers/Authorities simply to create a Serial Killer !!??

I respect your opinion sir, but your theory doesn't make any sense to me, and I know for a fact that most people agree with me. But if you have something to back up your claims then please share with all of us.  :tu:

ARGH!! I just spent 1/2 an hour typing a response and pressed the back button on my browser by accident!!!

when i regain the will to live i will respond again.


#29    dekker87

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM

 JVE, on 21 March 2011 - 08:16 PM, said:

Look at the nose, the jaw, the ears... Sorry but I don't think The Unknown man is indeed Jim Phillips. Remember: The picture was first showed 4 months ago, then it was showed 1 month ago on a very popular TV show watched by millions and millions of people, so if indeed the Unknown man was Darlene's ex-Husband mr. Phillips then why did nobody from Darlene's past (Sisters, Family, Friends, ex-Husband himself) came forward to reveal the identity of this man ???!!! The fact that after 4 long months nobody came forward with a name is to me proof that the man on the picture is not her ex-husband/Family member/Close friend.

And I have read everything about the Zodiac Killer case, I have researched this case since 2000, have been in communication with many investigators who have worked on the case and In my opinion your theory doesn't make any sense. First of all you have no evidence to back up your claims. Show me the evidence sir, that's all I want. After years of reading everything about the case, asking questions to people who know everything about it, after buying 5 books on the case I never found anything, never found one single piece of evidence telling me that your theory is true. I think it's an interesting theory, but you have no evidence to back it up, sorry.

I have heard, read about this theory claiming that The police conspired to create a Serial Killer(Zodiac) simply to take care of some people who were involved in a Drug ring.

Right now all we know is: Betty Lou Jensen, David Faraday, Darlene, Cecelia Shepard and Paul Stine are all definite Zodiac victims. So the police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murders of a 17 years old boy and a 16 years old girl, who were very good students, simply because David was buying a little bit of drugs here and there ?? And then the police wrote a letter to themself, providing many details that were not known to the general public, simply to create a Serial killer !??

So the police Conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Darlene Ferrin, then writing letters and sent them to the Vallejo Times-Herald, San Francisco Examiner and San Francisco Chronicle, giving details that only the killer could have known !??

The police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Cecelia Shepard and attack on Bryan Hartnell, two respected students who have no criminal past, two students who were Attacked on Daytime by a man wearing a costume featuring the symbol of the Zodiac Killer !!??

And the police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Paul Stine, a man with no criminal past,  then sent a letter to the San Francisco Chronicle containing a portion of Stine's bloody shirt !!??

The police wrote more than 20 letters/cards/ciphers to the Newspapers/Authorities simply to create a Serial Killer !!??

I respect your opinion sir, but your theory doesn't make any sense to me, and I know for a fact that most people agree with me. But if you have something to back up your claims then please share with all of us.  :tu:


ok....deeeeeeep breath and i'll start again!

i know that you're the resident Zodiac expert and i fully respect your opinions on this case...so i'll pose a few queries now but the intention is not to annoy but to provoke debate and test your arguments...

* - the 2 photos further up - there are more similarities than differences between them...many more...it seems to me that people are looking for the differences more than the similarities...because they want to see the zodiac killers face...a case of people being too close to the woods to be able to see the trees in my opinion....you said that:

Quote

The fact that after 4 long months nobody came forward with a name is to me proof that the man on the picture is not her ex-husband/Family member/Close friend.

perhaps they have 'come forward'....perhaps you simply aren't aware of this....but even if no-one has come forward in no way is that proof of anything.

*

Quote

after buying 5 books on the case I never found anything, never found one single piece of evidence telling me that your theory is true.

i've several books also...all of them are predicated on there actually being a zodiac killer...is it then really so odd that these authors don't consider the possibility that there may be no zodiac killer as popularly understood? people seem to accept 'his' existence as fact and THEN investigate the case...tryin to find out the identity rather than simply amassing the facts of 'the case'.

*

Quote

Right now all we know is: Betty Lou Jensen, David Faraday, Darlene, Cecelia Shepard and Paul Stine are all definite Zodiac victims.

no. we know they are all murder victims...not that they were all killed by the same person. we know that someone sent a letter to the press and included a piece of Stines shirt that he was wearing when he was killed. we don't know that this was the person who killed him. indeed in that same letter threats were made (against school kids) which were never carried out.

the linkage is thru letters to the media only.

*i dispute your position that letters were sent with details 'only the killer would have known'. the police would also have known them. and probably journalists also.

*'The police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Cecelia Shepard and attack on Bryan Hartnell, two respected students who have no criminal past, two students who were Attacked on Daytime by a man wearing a costume featuring the symbol of the Zodiac Killer !!??'

again there is no direct evidence to connect this attack to any others...the symbol was known by the police and journalists at this point. it's possible that someone attacked this couple to 'prove' the existence of Zodiac by wearing such a symbol. i don't understand how the police would have to conspire and lie about this attack...

Quote

And the police conspired or Hided the real facts about the murder of Paul Stine, a man with no criminal past, then sent a letter to the San Francisco Chronicle containing a portion of Stine's bloody shirt !!??

as i said earlier all the letter proves is that someone tore a piece of stines shirt off, wrote a letter and sent it to the press...nothing more.

Quote

The police wrote more than 20 letters/cards/ciphers to the Newspapers/Authorities simply to create a Serial Killer !!??

toschi was proven to have written fake letters to the media...as i'm sure you're aware...this doesn't prove he wrote the zodiac letters (i don't think he was directly involved) but it does demonstrate how people manipulate the media.

there are various other bits and pieces that have led me to the conclusion i have arrived at....the rumoured vallejo PD involvement in drugs etc but it's a long time since i've looked at this case and i can't recall them all right now.

all i ask is that you consider this theory when looking at evidence.

for the record i also believe that jack the ripper was not a serial killing case and was instead a media creation.


#30    JonathanVonErich

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 08:01 PM

 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

i know that you're the resident Zodiac expert and i fully respect your opinions on this case...so i'll pose a few queries now but the intention is not to annoy but to provoke debate and test your arguments...
Like I said I really respect your opinion and hopefully you didn't thought I was being rude or angry at you, I was simply stating my opinion just like you did. You obviously know the case very well yourself, so I'm glad to have this little "debate"/discussion with you, sir.  :tu:

 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

* - the 2 photos further up - there are more similarities than differences between them...many more...it seems to me that people are looking for the differences more than the similarities...because they want to see the zodiac killers face...a case of people being too close to the woods to be able to see the trees in my opinion....you said that:
At first I was looking for similarities but I have found more differences than similarities. Like I said I am no expert but to me the ears, jaw and nose are not the same, but I can understand why some people are seeing more similarities than differences, I only gave my humble opinion, like I said anything is possible, but the fact nobody came forward with a name after all this time is, to me, proof that this man was not close with Darlene's family and friends, in other words can't be Darlene's ex-husband.

 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

perhaps they have 'come forward'....perhaps you simply aren't aware of this....but even if no-one has come forward in no way is that proof of anything.
If somebody came forward with a name then nobody know about it. Zodiackiller.com, the first place the picture was showed, are still searching for the identity of the man and America's Most Wanted, who showed the picture to millions of people on February 19, are still showing the picture on their website and are still searching for the answer. If they know something then they decided not to share with the public.
We can be sure nobody came Forward between November(The first time the picture was showed on Zodiackiller.com) and February(when America's Most Wanted showed the picture on February 19). You are right, the fact nobody came forward is perhaps not proving anything, but I still think it is really strange. The Webmaster of Zodiackiller.com was at one point very close with Darlene's sister Pam, he did many interviews with her, even watched documentaries about the case with her, he know the family very well, so I am sure one of Darlene's family member or a friend would have come forward and would have told the identity of the man, the fact nobody did after all these months is strange.


 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

i've several books also...all of them are predicated on there actually being a zodiac killer...is it then really so odd that these authors don't consider the possibility that there may be no zodiac killer as popularly understood? people seem to accept 'his' existence as fact and THEN investigate the case...tryin to find out the identity rather than simply amassing the facts of 'the case'.
I accept "His" existence simply because I never read anything, never discovered evidence that the case was something other than a Serial Killer wanting publicity and wanting to taunt the police anyway he could. Trust me sir: I think the Theories that it was something else than a Serial Killer (Police conspiracy, media creation, more than one killer, one man killing and the other one writing the letters) are all very interesting and all of them deserve to be investigated. Sadly There is no evidence to back up these interesting theories. I have researched/read all I could find about these theories and I think there is a very good possibility that more than one man was involved, but sadly we have absolutely no evidence to back up these theories, and for now the only thing we can be sure is that one man wrote letters to the police/newspapers, giving details only the killer could have known, giving evidence(Stine's bloody shirt) that he was indeed the killer and right now the only logical theory we have, the only theory who makes sense is the theory that the murders were made by the man who wrote the letters/cards/ciphers, that this man calling himself Zodiac was indeed the only killer. I wish we could find evidences to back up other theories, but sadly wright now we have only evidences to back up the Serial Killer theory.

 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

no. we know they are all murder victims...not that they were all killed by the same person. we know that someone sent a letter to the press and included a piece of Stines shirt that he was wearing when he was killed. we don't know that this was the person who killed him. indeed in that same letter threats were made (against school kids) which were never carried out.
Like I said all we know now is that one man wrote all the letters/cards/ciphers, we can be 100% sure that all the letters were written by the same individual, so we have no choice to say that this man was indeed the killer of Betty Lou, David, Darlene, Cecelia and Paul. He gave details only the killer could have known and since we have no evidence to back up the theory that the case was a Conspiracy by the Police department/that they were more than one killer then we have to believe All of these murders were indeed made by one man, the man who wrote the letters/ciphers, the man who called himself Zodiac. Sad but true.

And we all know "Zodiac" was a liar. Once "he" said he killed a cop when the police had already arrested a suspect in the case, another time he wrote something about making a bomb but all of this was not true. In his final letter he said he had kill 37 person but neer had evidences to back up his claims. "He" was a liar and knew how to play with people's mind.

 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

the linkage is thru letters to the media only.

*i dispute your position that letters were sent with details 'only the killer would have known'. the police would also have known them. and probably journalists also.
I agree with you.
But we have to work with facts, and right now the facts are that this man, man who positively wrote all the Zodiac letters, gave details about the murders that only the investigators knew, sadly we have no evidence to back up the fact the letters could have been written by a police officer, a journalist who was involved with the case. We have to work with what we have, basically the letters are all we have, and since the man who wrote the letters said he was a killer and not a police officer then we have to follow that lead and investigate the existence of a serial killer. Sad but true. Until a former police officer/journalist comes forward and tell us the truth we have to follow the lead we have, and the lead we have right now is that a serial killer was behind the murders/attacks.

 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

again there is no direct evidence to connect this attack to any others...the symbol was known by the police and journalists at this point. it's possible that someone attacked this couple to 'prove' the existence of Zodiac by wearing such a symbol. i don't understand how the police would have to conspire and lie about this attack...
Again I agree with you, but The man who killed Cecelia and attacked Bryan that day left writings on Bryan's car (dates of the murders of Betty Lou, David and Darlene) and the writings on the car are similar or at least looks like the writings of the letters. I agree, it could have been anybody wearing the costume, after all this murder/attack were completely different than the previous murders, the M.O. was completely different but again we have to work with what we have, so since Zodiac said he was the killer/the writings on the car then we have to follow that lead. It's not much, I know, but these are the "facts" we have.

 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

as i said earlier all the letter proves is that someone tore a piece of stines shirt off, wrote a letter and sent it to the press...nothing more.
Well we can be sure that the same man wrote all the letters/cards/cipher, that we can be 100% sure. If my memory is correct Zodiac wrote 21 letters/or cards/or ciphers to the Authorities or different newspapers of the Bay Area and I know you won't agree but still : The letters are what we have right now, and since they were written by one man then the murders were also made by this one man. I know it's a controversial statement but like I said we have to work with what we have, and the only thing we can be 100% sure is that the letters were written by the same person.

 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

toschi was proven to have written fake letters to the media...as i'm sure you're aware...this doesn't prove he wrote the zodiac letters (i don't think he was directly involved) but it does demonstrate how people manipulate the media.
Toschi was proven to have written only ONE letter, one and only one, and the letter wasn't even close of being a genuine Zodiac letter, you can compare the two and you can clearly see all the differences, really it wasn't even close, so there is no way Toschi could have written all the Zodiac letters, like I said it wasn't even close of looking like a genuine Zodiac letter.
But I agree with you, it does demonstrate how people manipulate the media, good point.

 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

there are various other bits and pieces that have led me to the conclusion i have arrived at....the rumoured vallejo PD involvement in drugs etc but it's a long time since i've looked at this case and i can't recall them all right now.
all i ask is that you consider this theory when looking at evidence.
I always did my friend, I have researched this theory and others (more than one killer, media creation etc.) but I have never found one single piece of evidence to back up these different theories, so right now we have to investigate a Serial Killer since that's the only lead we have for now. Again sad, controversial but true.


 dekker87, on 23 March 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

for the record i also believe that jack the ripper was not a serial killing case and was instead a media creation.
I agree 100% with you.  :tu:

Sorry if I made some grammar mistakes, French is my first language and I wrote this post while I was in one of my classes, so lots of noise and hard to concentrate.  ^_^

It was a pleasure "debating" with you sir.

Edited by JVE, 23 March 2011 - 08:36 PM.





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