150 replies to this topic

[Sean93]

SpiritWriter, on 28 November 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

Satan is evil at its prime, it is the representation of the evil in the world. Sinners can easily be forgiven if they change their ways. Yes, humans did it, they should cut that sh!t out and quit acting like the devil.

Satan has killed much less people than the God of the OT so in effect, humans killing is really only a representation of Daddy's ways and not their dickish brother. Oh who am I kidding here, there's a reason i don't take Earthly scripture and stories as legit and things like this are one of them.

Of course, I could be wrong...and our God might not be an awesome God. By the way, I'm not saying Yahweh is a nice guy because it's clear that dude is nuts. But if he's real...

P.S I hope you don't get the impression that I'm chastising you either, that's not my intention at all, I don't care and am not bothered about what it is you believe, whatever keeps you a happy camper is all that matters. I may be imposing arguments, but I don't really expect you to answer them as some authority or anything because like me, you're just a human right?

Edited by Sean93, 28 November 2012 - 12:40 AM.

[SpiritWriter]

freetoroam, on 27 November 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

The beginning of the bible in Genesis, there is a part about men going to fight each other down to gods command. Please do not quote me on the exact content as i do not have the bible here now.
There are many people who are good minded and good hearted and NOT religious, so why then would god put man through the trials of war, death,  etc, when we know that man can live peacefully without religious guidance? it just seems that over time, those who have caused the wars and deaths have been the ones with religion behind then, their power for their religion to rule has brought a lot of hatred in this world let alone deaths.


And who created him?

This is a big topic my dear...

and a discussion that will not end after this one even if I answered you in the most articulate manner there was.

The truth is that from the beginning of time we as humans have had the tendency to search after God and many people have had direct experience with him/her. Many, after being converted and finding god change their lives and become much more emotionally healthy people. This subject is more advanced than just speaking in terms of religion.... it is spiritual and psychological, and I don't mean it in a way that it is only in our minds, I mean that having a relationship with God changes our psyches, that it is apart of our psyches to begin with. I cannot answer all of your biblical questions, and I don't think that this is a good way to handle any religious debate. I for one believe the bible has been corrupted, because it has been in the hands of rulers who want to manipulate man, and besides that, even if all the scriptures were left in tact, and all the prophets were included (including women) all over the world, it by itself could not explain all of the mysteries as much as we would want it to. Our own minds cannot conceive all of the mysteries as much as we would want it to. The legends of the world try to depict in story why there is good and evil and when we look around indeed we see it the world. Is the devil a grand entity that was born from God and then descended to evilness and now as humans we have the option of going both ways? I don't know for certain but I do know we as humans do have the choice between good and evil and that there is a spiritual battle between good and evil (God and the Devil). But this has nothing to do with Knowing the Mind of God. I know some evil people who know the mind of God (this is why some religious people are evil).... Its a sad true fact. Knowing God happens when God comes over you and shows himself to you. And that is why I personally don't feel its a problem for a person not to believe in God, it is not really a choice they make, but rather a knowing. God presents himself to people in a multitude of ways, and then they are given the chance to seek him/her further and to try to understanding these things as they present themselves. There is spiritual truth in the bible, but there is spiritual truth in everything else as well... I know I didn't answer your question, the reason why is because I couldn't. I only have my own interpretations. But I thought I'd reply anyway.

also, to respond further to your above statement: I am very aware that people who don't believe in God can be good people. This is no mystery to me. I think that just like the desire to find God is intrinsic to us, so it is to be good. There are many reasons why people don't find God, or that intrinsic part of them is not functioning (this is my opinion I know others will not like what I have said but I think we all have spirituality and connected to a great presiding force) but that it is shut off sometimes, for reasons that God knows, and perhaps will be revealed to us later. Unfortunately the intrinsic nature to be good can be thwarted based on many factors as well (I sum this up and say it is the work of the Devil - but this is terminology, whether it is based on spiritual truth or not - it is like math, you can describe it in different ways but it is still the same result). The bible says Jesus came for the sick, not the well. It is in situations like these that we desperately need God, and I don't agree that we would have a successful society without God (as you mentioned above). But I do think we need to re-think traditional Christian teaching, and many other social aspects of our world.



Have a blessed evening. I'm on my way to a bday party.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 28 November 2012 - 01:10 AM.

[braveone2u]

SpiritWriter, on 28 November 2012 - 12:35 AM, said:

many people have had direct experience with him/her.
This subject is more advanced than just speaking in terms of religion....
I for one believe the bible has been corrupted, because it has been in the hands of rulers who want to manipulate man,
Our own minds cannot conceive all of the mysteries as much as we would want it to.
Is the devil a grand entity that was born from God



I am very aware that people who don't believe in God can be good people.
This is no mystery to me. I think that just like the desire to find God is intrinsic to us, so it is to be good.
There are many reasons why people don't find God,
The bible says Jesus came for the sick, not the well.
But I do think we need to re-think traditional Christian teaching, and many other social aspects of our world.
Have a blessed evening.

Some believe that everything is a path to God(?). To say that one road-map is better than the next is pure insanity. I agree: if our core being were made of God(?), pure goodness would be its very nature; however, at this very moment, gawd's perfection is too dangerous for my "unique awareness" to swallow. It is what I have come to realize, but it's not written in stone; humans are quite capricious in this sense, for our station in life is ever-changing. There was a time when I wanted desperately enough to be one with God(?). The mind is the slayer of the soul, so people say, but is it really? Eventually, I recouped and assessed things.

On the other hand, I don't think the gawd of the bible and other ancient deities are the same as my God(?), unless like you said, they have "been corrupted because they have been in the hands of rulers (or just plain folks) who want to manipulate man...," and I'm not into the Shirley MacClaine type of God(?), as in "I AM GAWD!" Even if Shirley were to pay my bills, I wouldn't call her God(?). My spirituality is being in the now, and I don't see her walking on water... As a citizen of the U.S., she and I have the right to follow our whim, belief system, illusions, etc. Apparently, she's still getting a lot of milleage out of it. Are wealth and fame signs that one is right as reign? Jesus was dirt poor and people worship him to death -- what does it mean? Christmas? Expensive gifts? A deity in rags? Who's doing the manipulation?

Now that we have some cool tech to measure things, why is this so called God(?) who "comes over you and shows himself to you" suddenly become mute without a trace, totally invisible? Could it be that gawd is not in this world? If God(?) is not here, then who is this being these people praying to? The wily devil? Spooky ghost? The Holy Spirit? There is a God(?), but atheism is a valuable road-map.

Is God really that mysterious? "Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 18:3) Mind you, I'm not a Christian, but this says it all for me. To be with God is really that simple, but...do we really want to be with gawd? Now, that's really the question, isn't it? Everything in this world is geared to get us "there," believe it or not. A person should really look at his or her life's story. How much do we really want to be with gawd? To be one with God(?) is not going to happen in this world, at least not the God(?) I'm talking about. We also have all the excuses in the world not to merge with gawd (e.g., "I'm not ready," "I still have to find my soulmate," "I have children to look after," "I'm still young").

A mystic once told me that you will go to the deity, to whom you pray. For the most part, a deity is an intermediary, unless your praying to a materialistic one. Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, they all promise a form of "heaven," Nirvana, end game. They brought to the world the promise of true freedom. Once you're with your favorite diety, he or she will perhaps hold your hand while the process of merging with God(?) does its thing so that you don't freak out while your collective memory is being erased. Why is this? God(?) is one, not 2, 3, 4, and so on. One. I think that's the ultimate simple number. There is only one CONSCIOUS captain of the vessel. This is when the true non-duality comes on the scene, not while a person is on planet earth. Just sharing.

Peace.


=========================================
"You know as well as I do that the DEAD don't stay interested in us living people for very long. Gradually, gradually, they lose hold of the earth...and the ambitions they had...and the pleasures they had...and the things they suffered...and the people they loved. They get weaned away from earth -- that's the way I put it, weaned away. And they stay here (the Void) while the earth part of 'em  burns away, burns out; and all that time they slowly get indifferent to what's goin' on in Grover's Corners.

They're waitin'. They're waitin' for something that they feel is comin'. Something important, and GREAT. Aren't they waitin' for the eternal part in them to come out clear?

And what's left when memory's gone, and your identity, Mrs. Smith?" THORNTON WILDER'S OUR TOWN

[Beany]

Seeker79, on 27 November 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

"god" is just a word. The great spirit, the spirit that moves through all things, etc etc.

I haven't really found the right word or words for it yet, but giving it a name is not as important as recognizing it and working with it, I guess. But God is a loaded word, for sure, as it means different things to different people, and it anthropomorphizes the word, which is where I think a lot of the trouble starts.

Edited by Beany, 28 November 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[Seeker79]

freetoroam, on 27 November 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

Time, the universe and nature are my gods if a label had to be put on them. But why should they be labelled with another word when they already have their own? it only confuses those who do follow one, you are either a follower of god or you are not. I am not, so when referring to what I do believe in, I use the words which we know them as. The word god general, as far as I am aware, refers to a religious aspect, so why use a religious word to describe things which are not religious?

Do you even know what time is?

[iforgot]

Any logically existing godlike 'thing' would not have an Ego (or shape). When you absolutely take away ego, the only thing left is love. I suppose it would be appropriate to say that the 'mind' of 'god' would then be love. Humans tend to project their own image on the 'God' figure though. They give it an ego to make their idea or perception of God marketable to the greatest amount of people.

Some will say the idea of any creator itself would be outrageous. These people also say that every effect in our reality needs a cause (and therefore the paranormal does not exist). But by saying that our reality came to be without a cause does not make sense in its own logic. If it does, please explain!

I believe that everyone is a point of consciousness in a part of a bigger consciousness super computer. The physical reality is merely an illusion, a virtual consciousness training area if you will.

Edited by iforgot, 28 November 2012 - 03:59 AM.

[Mr Walker]

freetoroam, on 27 November 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

That is the nature of some humans.
As for god not being religious??? so you are saying god came first then humans worked round it? I interpret this as  god created the universe then man theory?
The Romans and the Greeks created their gods based on the sun, moon, sky,  etc etc etc the god there did NOT come first. If it were not for their trying to understand the forces behind nature, they would not have invented a god. As is stands, in the end they got rid of all those they believed in to end up following one which was a Hebrew god, had they wait a little longer, science would have given them many of the answers to their questions.

I mean that god is not a religious entity. Humans MAKE of god an object of worship, but god is just a being like you or me. If apes gained a human level intelligence they might consider humans god, but we are not. god is no more or less a divine being than we are,  but we perceive him to be, and thus make him an object of worship. IMO god is a teacher, mentor, protector, trying to uplift and evolve humans through a turbulent adolescence so they can survive into racial maturity.

God is an alien entity or artefact. It predates humanity but is most likely an evolved product of the universe, like us, but a few hundred thousand years more advanced. in a few millenia, and probably much less, we will have all the powers we now recognise in, or attribute to, god. Then it might be our turn to shepherd emerging sapient beings into a safe adulthood.

(and they will most likely be having this debate about our nature)

Edited by Mr Walker, 28 November 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[Zeta Reticulum]

Just as an insect cannot know the mind of an "Eistein" we cannot know the mind of God.

[Beckys_Mom]

Sean93, on 27 November 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

I hate how human nature is blamed on the Devil all the time. Fess up and take responsibility, we're animals, virus' with shoe

Very true..  I take responsibility for all of my actions, whether good or bad, it is all ME, not a  made up devil.. Too many like to point the finger to shift away from their own wrong doings.. Its more of a cop out and a sign of weakness..  A stronger person will face up to whatever they have done, and strive to do better.. The first step to doing that, is admitting you are fully responsible...  If you are unwilling to take that stand, then you are weak and a coward ..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 28 November 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[JGirl]

iforgot, on 28 November 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

Any logically existing godlike 'thing' would not have an Ego (or shape).

i found this interesting. how is it that you define ego as a shape?

[iforgot]

JGirl, on 28 November 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

i found this interesting. how is it that you define ego as a shape?

I didn't. I just through in shape because a lot of people like to cast their image on whatever created us.

[freetoroam]

Seeker79, on 28 November 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

Do you even know what time is?

Yes, time some people realised that some of us do not and will not believe in god!

Edited by freetoroam, 28 November 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[freetoroam]

Mr Walker, on 28 November 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

I mean that god is not a religious entity. Humans MAKE of god an object of worship, but god is just a being like you or me. If apes gained a human level intelligence they might consider humans god, but we are not. god is no more or less a divine being than we are,  but we perceive him to be, and thus make him an object of worship. IMO god is a teacher, mentor, protector, trying to uplift and evolve humans through a turbulent adolescence so they can survive into racial maturity.

God is an alien entity or artefact. It predates humanity but is most likely an evolved product of the universe, like us, but a few hundred thousand years more advanced. in a few millenia, and probably much less, we will have all the powers we now recognise in, or attribute to, god. Then it might be our turn to shepherd emerging sapient beings into a safe adulthood.

(and they will most likely be having this debate about our nature)

But apes would not need proof of our existence.
As you say god predates humanity, does this mean that the dinosaurs could have been god worshippers too?  at the end of the day, they were on this planet for a lot longer than we have been.
Maybe god made them first... boy, they must have really peed him off somehow! (rolling eyes, smilies has packed up) ooooh, spooky!

[freetoroam]

Beckys_Mom, on 28 November 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Very true..  I take responsibility for all of my actions, whether good or bad, it is all ME, not a  made up devil.. Too many like to point the finger to shift away from their own wrong doings.. Its more of a cop out and a sign of weakness..  A stronger person will face up to whatever they have done, and strive to do better.. The first step to doing that, is admitting you are fully responsible...  If you are unwilling to take that stand, then you are weak and a coward ..

There is enough proof to back that up too, there are many a man and woman who are in special hospitals because "god" told them to do it. Funny how the law can not try someone if they are not in their RIGHT frame of mind, so right frame  of mind can apply to the religious nuts who have had one contact with god too many.?

[Beckys_Mom]

freetoroam, on 28 November 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

There is enough proof to back that up too, there are many a man and woman who are in special hospitals because "god" told them to do it. Funny how the law can not try someone if they are not in their RIGHT frame of mind, so right frame  of mind can apply to the religious nuts who have had one contact with god too many.?

The devil made me do  <--Wouldn't hold in a court of law..