50 replies to this topic

[Habitat]

The idea that aliens mined gold and the Black Mountain boulders are somehow evidence for it is wildly speculative at best. The aliens apparently missed the very extensive alluvial deposits of the nearby Palmer River goldfield, where the chore of hard rock mining was unneccessary.

[psyche101]

SamDavies, on 07 March 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

Before invasion Australia's Aboriginal made, and still makes, beautiful woven baskets, headdresses; calved animals and figures out of wood with burnt designs on them. They were capable of piercing very hard seeds and dying certain fibres or weaving and sewing. Gold is maluable and would have been easily turned into jewellry or decoration by these very artful and skillful people living a stone aged existance. They weren't and aren't Neanderthal in nature/intelligence and consisted of about 600 clans. Aboriginals used boomarangs to knock down prey and wooden spears that did not need stone/flint spear heads as there were no large, thick hidded animals to hunt. They avoided hunting crocs and kept out of the way of these animals and were and still are terrified of snakes in general. Water buffulo are a recently introduced species. Other animals were easily hunted down with a wooden point.

Depending where the different clans lived determined how abundent food and shelter was. They were not in one neverending stressful fight for survival that would have had them not care about gold as even when they were fighting to survive they spent many hours preparing for ceremonies which included making head dresses or body painting or the making of wooden artifacts or weaving and painting. Gold would have been a pretty useful and easily used material that did not require smelting but they still did not use it. Nor did gold end up being a currency like in other parts of the world with these two races. Many races used shells as currency, but not gold, nor silver.

I realised also today that the Native American Indians were very aware of the existance of gold but did not use it in their costum or art either despite this race being very advanced and quite capable of fashioning figures out of gold. Perhaps, like Australia's Aboriginals, they saw gold as belonging to Mother earth and left it in such places as river beds along with other beautiful things such as pebbles and so forth. Perhaps the 'spirits' had told them it does not belong to them. Shrug. Both these groups believed that the land does not belong to anyone as it was given to them by the 'creator spirits' so this would include the gold. Perhaps the spirits warned these two native groups that gold could breed materialism and trouble, again, who knows. I've believed for some time the American Indian and the Australia's Aboriginal are perhaps overseen by the same 'spirit ancestors' (traditional Aboriginals and Native American Indians get along and understand one another quite well when they get together and discuss 'the spirits') who are in conflict with other interdimensional beings who perhaps were responsible for the massive production of golden relics and temples of worship.

Actually, there was about three hundred languages and about 600 dialects, a tribe or "language group" of perhaps 500 people is made up of bands of about 10-20 people each, who join together for day to day hunting and food gathering. And then you have Moieties. Throughout Australia the moiety system divides all the members of a tribe into two groups, based on a connection with certain animals, plants, or other aspects of their environment. But I digress. I cannot agree with the mythology, whilst no aficionado of American History, from what I do know, I fail to see parallels with the Australian Indigenous, and the American Natives, also, that I do not believe in the spirit world.

It might sound romantic to think of the Indigenous "protecting Mother Earth" But gold is not the only abundant element that is native, can be found on the surface, is bright and maleable. So is copper, and silver. Plenty here, none of it touched. But what I really find the proof in the pudding is that there are no metallic Indigenous artifact's or tools, or jewelry. The Indigenous are people too, and as such they also have individual members of society, and as you mentioned a very diverse society. What was sacred to one tribe was not always the same to another. They are not all going to be leaving Gold Copper ands Silver to Mother earth if it can help them catch a meal quicker. A mans gotta eat.

As I said, the Australian Indigenous had not left the stone age at the time of settlement. A mere two hundred years ago. They had no metallurgic knowledge or processes even at that time, and when the English brought steel guns cutlery, you name it, there was no giving this all back to Mother Earth, they were considered valuable items amongst the indigenous communities.

Yes, indeed they were in a never-ending stressful environment. The indigenous arrived during the reign of the megafauna for a start. That would have been a tough time to be alive. Weather, food, and local wars kept the local population in check. Wars amongst the indigenous before settlement were very common. Have you by any chance read the account of William Buckley?  He survived here against incredible odds, coning the term "Buckley's Chances" and eventually came to live with the Wathaurung people, because the indigenous thought he was the spirit of lost tribe member, he was taken in and cared for. He was instrumental in helping the Wathaurung people avoid many local conflicts I believe.

Nice thought, but I cannot see a shred of evidence that backs the ideal. THere is absolutely no evidence that the Australian Indigenous left the stone age.

[SamDavies]

psyche101, on 07 March 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Actually, there was about three hundred languages and about 600 dialects, a tribe or "language group" of perhaps 500 people is made up of bands of about 10-20 people each, who join together for day to day hunting and food gathering. And then you have Moieties. Throughout Australia the moiety system divides all the members of a tribe into two groups, based on a connection with certain animals, plants, or other aspects of their environment. But I digress. I cannot agree with the mythology, whilst no aficionado of American History, from what I do know, I fail to see parallels with the Australian Indigenous, and the American Natives, also, that I do not believe in the spirit world.

It might sound romantic to think of the Indigenous "protecting Mother Earth" But gold is not the only abundant element that is native, can be found on the surface, is bright and maleable. So is copper, and silver. Plenty here, none of it touched. But what I really find the proof in the pudding is that there are no metallic Indigenous artifact's or tools, or jewelry. The Indigenous are people too, and as such they also have individual members of society, and as you mentioned a very diverse society. What was sacred to one tribe was not always the same to another. They are not all going to be leaving Gold Copper ands Silver to Mother earth if it can help them catch a meal quicker. A mans gotta eat.

As I said, the Australian Indigenous had not left the stone age at the time of settlement. A mere two hundred years ago. They had no metallurgic knowledge or processes even at that time, and when the English brought steel guns cutlery, you name it, there was no giving this all back to Mother Earth, they were considered valuable items amongst the indigenous communities.

Yes, indeed they were in a never-ending stressful environment. The indigenous arrived during the reign of the megafauna for a start. That would have been a tough time to be alive. Weather, food, and local wars kept the local population in check. Wars amongst the indigenous before settlement were very common. Have you by any chance read the account of William Buckley?  He survived here against incredible odds, coning the term "Buckley's Chances" and eventually came to live with the Wathaurung people, because the indigenous thought he was the spirit of lost tribe member, he was taken in and cared for. He was instrumental in helping the Wathaurung people avoid many local conflicts I believe.

Nice thought, but I cannot see a shred of evidence that backs the ideal. THere is absolutely no evidence that the Australian Indigenous left the stone age.

Where do I say Australia's Aboriginals left the stone age. They did not forge any sort of metals, I made that clear, so they could not have left the stone age. Perhaps I should not use the stone age term but instead 'the most primative' race before invasion. Shrug.

Also I've experienced the 'spirit' world so it is a bit difficult not to believe in what Australia's Natives believe in. Even more so when I have sat down with traditional and none traditional aboriginals and discussed the 'spirits' and shared the experiences. My experiences thus will never allow me to disbelieve in interdimensional beings. To this very day I experience them and again without the benefit of drugs or alcohol. Experiences I've had since I can remember, as early as being four years old while travelling Australia's beautiful bush. We travelled all over Australia except Tasmania.

And I am also aware of the relationship the Native Americans and Australia's Aboriginals have when they meet together and discuse 'spirits' or interdimensional beings. Just because the native 'mythology' is not compatable with others beliefs (mostly the West's) doesn't mean it is not to be believed. LIkewise the traditionals whether Native American or Australia's Aboriginal don't believe in most of the West's spiritual or religious concepts and beliefs and they never will as they have personally experienced interaction with 'spirits' and healings and so forth.

600 clans, or perhaps I should say territories (?) and none of them used gold, silver and the such. Google maps of Australia's aboriginal tribes shows where each lived. Again, I never said they left the stone age. I don't see what any of this none use of metals can be any proof of excluding the existance of star ancestors that the natives say are their creators. Such as the Wandjina, who I share a belief in also. So much so I have 18 of them tattooed on my right arm within a hand print to carry them with me. And yes, each tribe had their different beliefs. Such as one part of the human body, such as a hand, was sacred but to another clan the foot was sacred and so forth, and this also goes for plants and animals.

Like with the Native American Indians, Australia's Aboriginals took with great eagerness such things as guns and any sort of metal tools that the invaders introduced. After all, they did not have smeltering nor would they have seen a gun or piece of jewellry in the same light as metal lying untouched in the ground or a river bed. And like any other race materialism is in the hearts of these nations also, particularly when their culture is being destroyed and the old ways lost.

No, I have to disagree, the Aboriginals were not in a neverending fight for survival. Comparing how they lived tens of thousands of years ago is not relievent to how they have been living the past 1000 years. But I suppose many seeing living off the land as a terrible hardship and so so primative where some people, like myself, do not see this as survival but a beautiful way of life. Something I can say as I had the privilage of living in the bush for two years and I am also very aware of how the Aboriginals did live before the invasion and, more importantly, how some still wish to live today but can no longer do so, mostly. You say that not all are going to leave metal to mother earth if they have to eat? Not sure what you are saying here or why as again, none of the tribes used metals to hunt. If just one tribe started using metals before the invasion it would have caught on to all tribes. But all tribes, and I mean ALL achnowledged that no individual owned land. That is a modern concept and one only adopted by some traditionals to help 'legally' keep their land. So now everything is out of balance where one elder can lay claim to vast areas of land mass. Before invasion such an individual and his or her family were considered carers or guardians of the land, not owners. Something most Westerners just don't seem to understand no matter how it is explained. Or at least that has been my experience.

And like any society the clans did war with one another, a lot, I did not say they didn't. And William Buckley! It should be said what would he have done without them, what with being an escaped convict  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Buckley_(convict). If the invaders had never set a foot on Australia's soil the natives would still be strong healthy and happy and not anywhere near warring themselves into extinction. They did not need saving from themselves in any way. Many whites were saved by natives due to their hospitality and survival skills. IMO, Australia's aboriginal has nothing to be grateful for, and those Aboriginals who I've spoken with agree, oh, unless they are the progressives.

Have you seen the movie Ten Canoes? I recommend it to get a handle on how one tribe lived pre invasion. And it is an accurate interpretation. It also shows the wonderful humor of Australia's indigenous. Happy, healthy and content.

The Native Americans did not smelt metals nor use metals before invasion but I would not consider them to be living in the stone age. Just because a nation does not use metal does in no way make them less advance or civilized then a nation that does. Oh, except in war when the so called more civilized countries invade such places as America and Australia (and any other place they can get their hands on) and slaughter them in an unfair one sided invasion and somehow the invaders call them selves the 'civilized' world taming the 'savage'.

And this thread is about no proof aliens used humans as slave to dig gold, not whether Australia's Aboriginal, or any other nation, left the stone age or whatever. Again, if humans were used as slaves to dig gold, where is the proof. The thread is about how some still want to follow the theory that humans were used by reptile like aliens to dig for gold without any proof.

[SamDavies]

Habitat, on 07 March 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

The idea that aliens mined gold and the Black Mountain boulders are somehow evidence for it is wildly speculative at best. The aliens apparently missed the very extensive alluvial deposits of the nearby Palmer River goldfield, where the chore of hard rock mining was unneccessary.

Who's to say they missed it. If aliens did mine Australia in parts why should it be presumed they would have mined all areas and totally stripped it. We don't know why and for what they were using it. And no one knows why all of a sudden they left the gold rich areas. Perhaps they took what they needed or wanted and then just left. There is millions of tonnes of gold all over the world still unmined and probably will remain so, aliens or no aliens. Just because it is there doesn't mean it has to be removed and used, thank goodness.

Nor did I say the Black Mountains were evidence. I said it could have been a gold mine site as so much gold was found around the area and that the aboriginals believed the black Mountains was not put there by humans. It is just a theory that perhaps gold was mined by aliens in that area and natives were not used. Who knows, perhaps they were mining something else entirely. It is a subject I bring up as there is no record or mythology of spirits or beings using humans as slaves to dig gold or to dig for anything. So it is not just the concept of humans used as slave for gold digging it is a concept that shows humans were not used as slave for anything so back breaking.

Beings from other worlds did not need to use humans to dig for gold, IMO. All they had to do was land some form of digging equipment, find what they were looking for and either escape with it or go to somewhere else with it on this planet and use it. Who knows. There are so many hundreds and hundreds of ancient sites yet to be discovered or fully excavated so we have no idea how much gold that has been forged into artifacts remain hidden whether by human hand or aliens. What we have seen so far could just be the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, IMO. I jsut find the whole thing totally facinating and have full confidence that within the next five years all will be reviled, if not sooner.

[lost_shaman]

Hey Sam,

You said, "The Native Americans did not smelt metals nor use metals before invasion... "

I'd point out that while rare, copper spear point and other artifacts can be found in North America. And of course if other metals were also used those such as any iron would have just rusted away. So it isn't quite true to say that Native Americans didn't use metals.

[SamDavies]

lost_shaman, on 08 March 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

Hey Sam,

You said, "The Native Americans did not smelt metals nor use metals before invasion... "

I'd point out that while rare, copper spear point and other artifacts can be found in North America. And of course if other metals were also used those such as any iron would have just rusted away. So it isn't quite true to say that Native Americans didn't use metals.

Thanks, lost_shaman, thought they relied on bone for spear heads due to the abundence and strength. Interesting.

Can't find any info on internet about pre european American Indian spear heads made of metal. Only bone and stone. Please provide link or info if you have it, thanks.
Edit: Added last sentance.

Edited by SamDavies, 08 March 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Oniomancer]

SamDavies, on 08 March 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Thanks, lost_shaman, thought they relied on bone for spear heads due to the abundence and strength. Interesting.

Can't find any info on internet about pre european American Indian spear heads made of metal. Only bone and stone. Please provide link or info if you have it, thanks.
Edit: Added last sentance.

http://copperculture.homestead.com/

http://www.penn.muse.../Metallurgy.pdf

http://www.britishmu...ade_from_m.aspx

[psyche101]

SamDavies, on 07 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Where do I say Australia's Aboriginals left the stone age. They did not forge any sort of metals, I made that clear, so they could not have left the stone age. Perhaps I should not use the stone age term but instead 'the most primative' race before invasion. Shrug.

You did not have to say the Indigenous left the stone age, you asked why they did not use Gold, this is the reason why. They did not delve into metallurgy at all. Wooden Boomerangs, Woven Baskets and Beads are not proof that they should have left a stone age. Quite simple really.

SamDavies, on 07 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Also I've experienced the 'spirit' world so it is a bit difficult not to believe in what Australia's Natives believe in. Even more so when I have sat down with traditional and none traditional aboriginals and discussed the 'spirits' and shared the experiences. My experiences thus will never allow me to disbelieve in interdimensional beings. To this very day I experience them and again without the benefit of drugs or alcohol. Experiences I've had since I can remember, as early as being four years old while travelling Australia's beautiful bush. We travelled all over Australia except Tasmania.

Well, all I can say is good for you. If you think you are touching some spirit dimension, and are happy in that thought, more power too you. It does not make it real, nor does it validate such, that is a personal belief, and you are entitled to that, but your experiences are in no way convincing that such a realm exists. I have had some discussions with the indigenous myself, I find they are quite random with regards to the belief, some do, some don't. It depends on where the person you talk to lives. I will believe in inter dimensional beings when I see proof of one. Funnily enough. Tassie is the one state I have not set foot in either. I grew up in rural Australia on broadacre farmland. Seen a bit of the country myself, I would like to go back to WA and have a better look around the top end.

SamDavies, on 07 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

And I am also aware of the relationship the Native Americans and Australia's Aboriginals have when they meet together and discuse 'spirits' or interdimensional beings. Just because the native 'mythology' is not compatable with others beliefs (mostly the West's) doesn't mean it is not to be believed. LIkewise the traditionals whether Native American or Australia's Aboriginal don't believe in most of the West's spiritual or religious concepts and beliefs and they never will as they have personally experienced interaction with 'spirits' and healings and so forth.

Hrmmmz, believed? You mean as in anyone can go there with the right frame of mind? Do you have a link showing similarities between the cultures? The cultures seems quite different to me. What I was saying previously is that Westerners take these legends and make their own legends up, and then try to say that was what the indigenous actually meant to say. That is deplorable, and a real shame as we have lost enough native languages already. My niece on my wife's side spent 8 years in the Linguistics departments at Batchelor raising dead indigenous languages, and preserving what is left. She travelled quite a bit amongst the elders and gathered much information, Google stole some and Batchelor took them to court, but of course against a giant like Google, they lost. I look forward to any opportunity to catch up with her, we always have much to share. I am afraid that the Wondjina that you have many tattos of is a prime example of the West turning something into something it is not. They are depicted as Spacemen because the indigenous point at the Milky Way when describing where the legends say the Wondjina came from. Some numpty decided to use his self acclaimed academic skill to call this depictions an Alien, when from what I can tell the region in the Milky Way that the Wondjona come from is more akin to a Western Heaven, not a planet. The Wondjona are creators, not visitors.

Here is an example:

Quote

According to Mowanjum artist Mabel King, during Lai Lai (the creation time), Wallungunder, the "big boss" Wandjina, came from the Milky Way to create the earth and all the people. These first people were the Gyorn Gyorn – what some gudiya (white) people call Bradshaw figures, named after the gudiya to first see them in 1891. The Gyorn Gyorn had no laws or kinship and wandered around lost.

Wallungunder saw that he could do good with these people, so he went back to the Milky Way and brought many other Wandjinas with the power of the Dreamtime snake to help him bring laws and kinship to the Gyorn Gyorn people. The Dreamtime snake represents Mother Earth and is called ungud. Each of the artists has his or her own ungud birthplace or dreaming place.
The Wandjinas created the animals and the baby spirits that reside in the rock pools or sacred ungud places throughout the Kimberley, and continue to control everything that happens on the land and in the sky and sea.

http://www.mowanjuma...om/history.html


That describes a Deity. Not a Spaceman.

SamDavies, on 07 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

600 clans, or perhaps I should say territories (?) and none of them used gold, silver and the such. Google maps of Australia's aboriginal tribes shows where each lived. Again, I never said they left the stone age. I don't see what any of this none use of metals can be any proof of excluding the existance of star ancestors that the natives say are their creators. Such as the Wandjina, who I share a belief in also. So much so I have 18 of them tattooed on my right arm within a hand print to carry them with me. And yes, each tribe had their different beliefs. Such as one part of the human body, such as a hand, was sacred but to another clan the foot was sacred and so forth, and this also goes for plants and animals.

Are your tatts the original Wondjina, or the recent interpretations? The Wondjina paintings are traditionally re-painted on a regular basis (Annual repainting in December or January also ensures the arrival of the monsoon rains), many being over 40 layers deep. Recent depiction have added things like eyebrows to the original depiction and made them look stockier.

I do not see any proof of star visitors to be honest, I believe you have that the wrong way around, I really do, and am concerneed that you have been led astray by the likes of Rex Gilroy.

SamDavies, on 07 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Like with the Native American Indians, Australia's Aboriginals took with great eagerness such things as guns and any sort of metal tools that the invaders introduced. After all, they did not have smeltering nor would they have seen a gun or piece of jewellry in the same light as metal lying untouched in the ground or a river bed. And like any other race materialism is in the hearts of these nations also, particularly when their culture is being destroyed and the old ways lost.

I really think todays UFOLogists are the ones we should be concerned with regards to destroying culture. Indigenous culture is oral. There is not even a way to check of these wild interpretations are even vaguely near the mark concerning the original meanings.

As has been pointed out to you, yes copper arrowheads have been found. In the Lake Superior region of America I believe. The Indigenous did not have a problem with the people who came in droves on the Gold rush. If they had a problem with "stealing from Mother Earth" they would not have been so willing to help these men who marvelled at the Indigenous skills of hunting and tracking, and even used indigenous designs for their first shelters. The Indigenous were paid by these men for "Raping Mother Earth" and many even became wealthy. If they had a spiritual problem with Gold, this would not have happened.

SamDavies, on 07 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

No, I have to disagree, the Aboriginals were not in a neverending fight for survival. Comparing how they lived tens of thousands of years ago is not relievent to how they have been living the past 1000 years. But I suppose many seeing living off the land as a terrible hardship and so so primative where some people, like myself, do not see this as survival but a beautiful way of life. Something I can say as I had the privilage of living in the bush for two years and I am also very aware of how the Aboriginals did live before the invasion and, more importantly, how some still wish to live today but can no longer do so, mostly. You say that not all are going to leave metal to mother earth if they have to eat? Not sure what you are saying here or why as again, none of the tribes used metals to hunt. If just one tribe started using metals before the invasion it would have caught on to all tribes. But all tribes, and I mean ALL achnowledged that no individual owned land. That is a modern concept and one only adopted by some traditionals to help 'legally' keep their land. So now everything is out of balance where one elder can lay claim to vast areas of land mass. Before invasion such an individual and his or her family were considered carers or guardians of the land, not owners. Something most Westerners just don't seem to understand no matter how it is explained. Or at least that has been my experience.

And like any society the clans did war with one another, a lot, I did not say they didn't. And William Buckley! It should be said what would he have done without them, what with being an escaped convict  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Buckley_(convict). If the invaders had never set a foot on Australia's soil the natives would still be strong healthy and happy and not anywhere near warring themselves into extinction. They did not need saving from themselves in any way. Many whites were saved by natives due to their hospitality and survival skills. IMO, Australia's aboriginal has nothing to be grateful for, and those Aboriginals who I've spoken with agree, oh, unless they are the progressives.

Yes, I am saying No tribe used metal to hunt. Not for anything at all as far as that is concerned.
You have me rather confused, in the first paragraph you say that there was no fight for survival it was a "beautiful way of life" and then in the second paragraph you say that they did war with each other alot. This is a pretty harsh country too, we do not have apple trees on every corner, how you can see life as anything but difficult is beyond me. I grew up in the bush. That was tough too, drought, then flood, then drought, it is still the same today, read anything about Roma and Wagga of late? Floods everywhere, monsoonal rains, it was hardly a life of luxury, and we have also recorded the hottest temperatures on earth. Like I say, my niece spent 8 years at Batchelor, all she did was study pre-settlement indigenous history. I have picked her brains, and she is but an email away. I have a reasonable understanding of the cultures.
Of course the Australian Indigenous do not "own" land, they did have territories though, according to their dreamtime, the land is owned by the spirits. And you do not want to mess with the spirits. I do agree with you about William Buckley, we would surely have perished without the Indigenous that found him in his weakened state. He was however instrumental in quelling disputes as he was regarded the spirit of a lost brother so both sides often listened to him. I cannot spell it of the top of my head, but one of the members here uses it as a Nick.

SamDavies, on 07 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Have you seen the movie Ten Canoes? I recommend it to get a handle on how one tribe lived pre invasion. And it is an accurate interpretation. It also shows the wonderful humor of Australia's indigenous. Happy, healthy and content.

Indeed I do own a copy, a search here might turn up some old conversation I have had about the movie. Are you aware that the Minygululu tribe was really frowned upon the Indigenous in general for relaying as much as they did? As you may or may not know. Stories are regarded as family treasures, heirlooms of you like. They are not to be simply given away, that is a mark of disrespect. That bit did not make it to the awards ceremonies.
The Minygululu tribe is known as the "Tribe of Big Laughs", and they were depicted very well I am told by my Niece. Like I say, thanks, but I have quite a decent handle on Pre-Settlement conditions thanks to my Niece, and the good work being done at Batchelor. Far more so that the extent of Ten Canoes I assure you.
I bought that movie when it came out I have never watched the version that is in Indigenous, it would be lost in me as I do not speak the language. But an Indigenous version and English version comes on the disc.

SamDavies, on 07 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

The Native Americans did not smelt metals nor use metals before invasion but I would not consider them to be living in the stone age. Just because a nation does not use metal does in no way make them less advance or civilized then a nation that does. Oh, except in war when the so called more civilized countries invade such places as America and Australia (and any other place they can get their hands on) and slaughter them in an unfair one sided invasion and somehow the invaders call them selves the 'civilized' world taming the 'savage'.

And this thread is about no proof aliens used humans as slave to dig gold, not whether Australia's Aboriginal, or any other nation, left the stone age or whatever. Again, if humans were used as slaves to dig gold, where is the proof. The thread is about how some still want to follow the theory that humans were used by reptile like aliens to dig for gold without any proof.

Well, you know better now, the Native Americans did use metals. Stone age is a term that is used to refer to the stage of industry that a culture has reached, I am getting the impression that you feel it is a mild insult, such as "cavemen" Or the very incorrect stereotype "Neanderthal" it is not.
Yes, I agree the settlements were brutal and in many (most?) cases inhumane. Here, and every place they happened, expect those clever Maoris who came up with the Treaty of Waitangi. They are now reclaiming their land. Smart people, I have to admit, I very much admire them as a people, and the incredible insight they showed with this treaty. People were going to invade anyway, this was a brilliant way to make that work for both parties. The retaliation on todays Western society by any group such as the Australia Day debacle at Parliament House, on people who are not at all related to the settlers is what I call "savage" the people paying for these atrocities have absolutely nothing at all to do with the people who were carrying out these atrocities. Nor do the innocent BBQ's on Australia day. Until this chip is dropped, there will be no real peace, and the people who did what has upset so many are now pushing up daisies. Many of the people who have come here in the meantime have also experienced similar assimilations in their own countries long before Australia was settled. And now persecuted for trying to take up residence in what is called "The Lucky Country".  You are of British Decent aren't you? Did you tell the Elders that you speak to that you come from Captain Cooks land? I would love to know the response! You do know they felt Captain Cook was the very Devil.

The Stone Age thing has you bothered doesn't it. I do not know why, it shows that the ideal of human slaves for Aliens to retrieve Gold is as ridiculous as it sounds on the surface. We are in agreeance there, are we not?

One more thing if I may be so bold as to respectfully ask, you say you spend a great deal of time with the Indigenous, yet as far as I know, the Australian Indigenous prefer the term "Australian Indigenous" or "Indigenous" some are fine with "Indig" I do not know of any that still use the term "Australian Aboriginal" and I have been told that it is considered an offensive term due to racial connotations that have arisen in Australian history, and they deplore the shortened term "Abo" (although everyone shortens everything here) yet you use it frequently. Do you use that term when speaking to Elders and tribes peoples? If so, how is it you are still in one piece?

Edited by psyche101, 09 March 2012 - 02:53 AM.

[psyche101]

SamDavies, on 07 March 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

Who's to say they missed it. If aliens did mine Australia in parts why should it be presumed they would have mined all areas and totally stripped it. We don't know why and for what they were using it. And no one knows why all of a sudden they left the gold rich areas. Perhaps they took what they needed or wanted and then just left. There is millions of tonnes of gold all over the world still unmined and probably will remain so, aliens or no aliens. Just because it is there doesn't mean it has to be removed and used, thank goodness.

Nor did I say the Black Mountains were evidence. I said it could have been a gold mine site as so much gold was found around the area and that the aboriginals believed the black Mountains was not put there by humans. It is just a theory that perhaps gold was mined by aliens in that area and natives were not used. Who knows, perhaps they were mining something else entirely. It is a subject I bring up as there is no record or mythology of spirits or beings using humans as slaves to dig gold or to dig for anything. So it is not just the concept of humans used as slave for gold digging it is a concept that shows humans were not used as slave for anything so back breaking.

Beings from other worlds did not need to use humans to dig for gold, IMO. All they had to do was land some form of digging equipment, find what they were looking for and either escape with it or go to somewhere else with it on this planet and use it. Who knows. There are so many hundreds and hundreds of ancient sites yet to be discovered or fully excavated so we have no idea how much gold that has been forged into artifacts remain hidden whether by human hand or aliens. What we have seen so far could just be the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, IMO. I jsut find the whole thing totally facinating and have full confidence that within the next five years all will be reviled, if not sooner.

The Indigenous may well claim tjat the Black Mountains were "put there" But they also say a giant snake carved all of Australia's rivers and Landscape. It pays to separate Dreamtime from Real time.

[DONTEATUS]

Well now I need a walk-about ! Help me the tell is the trail of the past,we need more shrimps on the Barbiee !

[psyche101]

DONTEATUS, on 09 March 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

Well now I need a walk-about ! Help me the tell is the trail of the past,we need more shrimps on the Barbiee !

Now that is a good movie too! Oldie but a goodie.

[DONTEATUS]

psyche101, on 09 March 2012 - 04:25 AM, said:

Now that is a good movie too! Oldie but a goodie.

One of the best ! We loved it Ive got it on VCR,now the problem is I need to transfer it or find it on Blue Ray Gun ! or disc . I wonder what the next media format is going to be . Im getting tired of buying these different players!
Well Cheer`s mate ! Texas awaits your visit !

[SamDavies]

psyche101, on 09 March 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

I bought that movie when it came out I have never watched the version that is in Indigenous, it would be lost in me as I do not speak the language. But an Indigenous version and English version comes on the disc.

The Stone Age thing has you bothered doesn't it. I do not know why, it shows that the ideal of human slaves for Aliens to retrieve Gold is as ridiculous as it sounds on the surface. We are in agreeance there, are we not?

One more thing if I may be so bold as to respectfully ask, you say you spend a great deal of time with the Indigenous, yet as far as I know, the Australian Indigenous prefer the term "Australian Indigenous" or "Indigenous" some are fine with "Indig" I do not know of any that still use the term "Australian Aboriginal" and I have been told that it is considered an offensive term due to racial connotations that have arisen in Australian history, and they deplore the shortened term "Abo" (although everyone shortens everything here) yet you use it frequently. Do you use that term when speaking to Elders and tribes peoples? If so, how is it you are still in one piece?

psyche101, on 09 March 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

One more thing if I may be so bold as to respectfully ask, you say you spend a great deal of time with the Indigenous, yet as far as I know, the Australian Indigenous prefer the term "Australian Indigenous" or "Indigenous" some are fine with "Indig" I do not know of any that still use the term "Australian Aboriginal" and I have been told that it is considered an offensive term due to racial connotations that have arisen in Australian history, and they deplore the shortened term "Abo" (although everyone shortens everything here) yet you use it frequently. Do you use that term when speaking to Elders and tribes peoples? If so, how is it you are still in one piece?

LOCAL NEWSPAPER  Our local newspaper often has articles speaking about the Northern Territory's Aboriginals and refers to them often as Aboriginals. I've contributed to the online comments at times and always refer to the native peoples as Aboriginals. In the NT both terms Indigenous and Aboriginal are used.

My Father's lived with a full blood Aboriginal for over 30 years on a community and he can speak one of their languages.

One of my GPs, Dr David Welch, is a publisher and author of books focusing on Aboriginal life and history in an attempt to help record Aboriginal history. WELCH Fantastic pictures! I'd consider him one of the foremost experts regarding anything Aboriginal. Known him for over 22 years. [The word "aborigine" (with a little "a") means one of the original native inhabitants of any country. The word "Aborigine" (with a capital "A") is used to describe the indigenous people of Australia. In Australia, many non-Aboriginal people use the terms "Aboriginal" and "Aboriginals" as singular and plural nouns for the people. Aborigines describe themselves using the various words which mean "person" from each of their own different language groups (tribes). A person from the Sydney region might describe themselves as Koorie, from Darwin as Larrakeyah, from northeast Arnhem Land as Yolgnu, and central Australian has Pitjantjatjara, Pintubi etc.]

I'm a friend of a Tiwi Islander entertainer, full blood, and sat down with her and a couple of her relatives, who were half blood, and discussed the term Aboriginal and Indigenous some time ago. They laughed and said they didn't care about political correctness mostly used by some progressives with their political agendas, it was all a big joke and that they had far more important things to be concerning themselves over. One of the nephews is sometimes called 'Coconut' as he's embraced Western lifestyle more than most of his people.

Lol. Do they know that I am British? I'm white with a British accent. Like my Aboriginal friend said to me, "It's not the color of skin that makes one Aboriginal, it is the heart".

I believe in the Wandjina and their existance and what they are. You have not shown me anything new regarding them. And they are indeed very powerful. My Wandjina is styled on the old cave depictions and definitely do not have things like eye brows. Nor are they depicted with mouths or the rains will not cease. WANDJINA I have never said they are visitors. They are the Creators of the Aboriginal and this land. Nor do I have any books on UFOs with their authors off the wall interpretations tellng me what to believe regarding anything. As regards the Dreamtime. Yes, it is Dreamtime. The Creation stories use much symbolism and differ greatly from one tribe to the other.

Like all natives world wide they suffered from the greed bug as much as anyone else. So of course some both American Indian and Aboriginal lead people to gold in exchange for material gain. Today it is obvious many Aboriginals do not care about Mother Earth, but many do but are drowned out by the big noise some progressives make.

And regarding movies and telling things to none indigenous that perhaps shouldn't be told. This is a difficult one for any culture. Some say they should share to help preserve what i left of the culture and also as an educational tool to help outsiders 'understand' more. Others would prefer to go to the grave with their sacred secrets and feel they should notbe told for any reason. I watched the subtitled Ten Canoes as I like to hear the native tongue.

Here in the Northern Territory the Aboriginals are fighting for their lives due to NT government experiments that have failed. Some gave up wanting to live years ago. Weather is the least of their worries.

Cheers.
And yes, we are in agreement that the ideal of human slaves for Aliens to retrieve Gold is as ridiculous as it sounds on the surface.

Edited by SamDavies, 12 March 2012 - 07:46 AM.

[psyche101]

SamDavies, on 12 March 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

LOCAL NEWSPAPER  Our local newspaper often has articles speaking about the Northern Territory's Aboriginals and refers to them often as Aboriginals. I've contributed to the online comments at times and always refer to the native peoples as Aboriginals. In the NT both terms Indigenous and Aboriginal are used.

My Father's lived with a full blood Aboriginal for over 30 years on a community and he can speak one of their languages.

One of my GPs, Dr David Welch, is a publisher and author of books focusing on Aboriginal life and history in an attempt to help record Aboriginal history. WELCH Fantastic pictures! I'd consider him one of the foremost experts regarding anything Aboriginal. Known him for over 22 years. [The word "aborigine" (with a little "a") means one of the original native inhabitants of any country. The word "Aborigine" (with a capital "A") is used to describe the indigenous people of Australia. In Australia, many non-Aboriginal people use the terms "Aboriginal" and "Aboriginals" as singular and plural nouns for the people. Aborigines describe themselves using the various words which mean "person" from each of their own different language groups (tribes). A person from the Sydney region might describe themselves as Koorie, from Darwin as Larrakeyah, from northeast Arnhem Land as Yolgnu, and central Australian has Pitjantjatjara, Pintubi etc.]

I'm a friend of a Tiwi Islander entertainer, full blood, and sat down with her and a couple of her relatives, who were half blood, and discussed the term Aboriginal and Indigenous some time ago. They laughed and said they didn't care about political correctness mostly used by some progressives with their political agendas, it was all a big joke and that they had far more important things to be concerning themselves over. One of the nephews is sometimes called 'Coconut' as he's embraced Western lifestyle more than most of his people.

Ahh yes, the NT News The paper that was shamed by ABC's media watch over their constant UFO reporting. My Niece married a Torres Strait Islander. They have not embraced the West, very traditional. Dr Welch is the fellow who is an aficionado of rock art isn't he? He has put out some papers and toured lecturing if I am thinking of the same person, I would agree with you, he is quite an authority.

Now if you look at that article, check out the picture, that is exactly the sort of impression that the people I have spoken to wish to avoid, and the racial connotation in a picture. The stereotype associated with the term "Abo". As I said, my niece was at Batchelor, and they do not use the term, the full title of that University is Batchelor Institute of Indigenous Tertiary Education. - LINK Yes, I know the tribal names, Koori and Murri people are quite prevalent here on the Gold Coast. That refers to regional names not the people as a whole. To the best of my knowledge the preferred term is Indigenous. My experience regarding the term is quite different to yours. Did you just discuss the terms, or did you ask what the preference was?

SamDavies, on 12 March 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

Lol. Do they know that I am British? I'm white with a British accent. Like my Aboriginal friend said to me, "It's not the color of skin that makes one Aboriginal, it is the heart".

Can you do me a favour? Say the same thing on Australia Day and see how that goes. Not seeing the love on the day we are all supposed to be grateful for being in the lucky country. Both sides have issues. Until both sides recognise that, things will not move forward.

You have lived here all your life and still have a British Accent? After living in the bush and NT? That is odd.

SamDavies, on 12 March 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

I believe in the Wandjina and their existance and what they are. You have not shown me anything new regarding them. And they are indeed very powerful. My Wandjina is styled on the old cave depictions and definitely do not have things like eye brows. Nor are they depicted with mouths or the rains will not cease. WANDJINA I have never said they are visitors. They are the Creators of the Aboriginal and this land. Nor do I have any books on UFOs with their authors off the wall interpretations tellng me what to believe regarding anything. As regards the Dreamtime. Yes, it is Dreamtime. The Creation stories use much symbolism and differ greatly from one tribe to the other.

Like all natives world wide they suffered from the greed bug as much as anyone else. So of course some both American Indian and Aboriginal lead people to gold in exchange for material gain. Today it is obvious many Aboriginals do not care about Mother Earth, but many do but are drowned out by the big noise some progressives make.

And regarding movies and telling things to none indigenous that perhaps shouldn't be told. This is a difficult one for any culture. Some say they should share to help preserve what i left of the culture and also as an educational tool to help outsiders 'understand' more. Others would prefer to go to the grave with their sacred secrets and feel they should notbe told for any reason. I watched the subtitled Ten Canoes as I like to hear the native tongue.

Here in the Northern Territory the Aboriginals are fighting for their lives due to NT government experiments that have failed. Some gave up wanting to live years ago. Weather is the least of their worries.

You beliefs of the Wondjina are personal, and that is fine, as long as you do not expect others to believe them to be any more then a religious deity. I am not surprised that I have not shown you anything new, the story is not that long and complex. How I did get the impression that you thought they were something other than deities was that you mentioned them as Inter-dimensional beings, which is starting to sound quite Western again. But I understand with this post, that you could well be considering spirits as such.
As far as I know, sharing stories is taboo amongst all tribes. It is something like an Heirloom, or in some cases, a parallel to trade, a form of currency perhaps. A couple of hundred years ago, I feel a punishment would have been given for sharing a sacred thing with strangers.
Which experiments do you particularly refer to? I never thought of the Government involvement as experiments, I just think it is a vivid example of how cultures clash. Neither side seems to know what the other wants.
Yes, all people have greed inherent, and will take advantage of a situation not just natives for sure, however, I keep thinking back to those wily Maoris. What insight huh! I have to respect that!

SamDavies, on 12 March 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

Cheers.
And yes, we are in agreement that the ideal of human slaves for Aliens to retrieve Gold is as ridiculous as it sounds on the surface.

[psyche101]

DONTEATUS, on 09 March 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

One of the best ! We loved it Ive got it on VCR,now the problem is I need to transfer it or find it on Blue Ray Gun ! or disc . I wonder what the next media format is going to be . Im getting tired of buying these different players!
Well Cheer`s mate ! Texas awaits your visit !

Next format? Torrent?

Avi's are awesome I find, transfer to a stick, plug it in to DVD or PS3. Just like MP3's, small files too. I love this new technology. I have not really embraced Blu Ray, it seems a pretty minimal difference on say a 42" screen? Might be my age!

I have very fond memories of the movie, scary, interesting, plenty white knuckle moments and the very first time I saw an entire nekkid female. Ahh memories!
I just hope Texas can wait for me to sit out this GFC! When is it going to be over?