U.S. wants Canadian passenger data

[glorybebe]

Under a new U.S. proposal, Canadian airlines flying to southern destinations over U.S. airspace would be forced to hand over personal information about their passengers.

The U.S. Secure Flight program being proposed by the Department of Homeland Security would require airlines to transmit passenger manifest data up to 72 hours ahead of scheduled flights -- despite the fact the planes would neither take-off nor land in the U.S.

The program would affect flights to and from vacation hot spots such as Mexico, Costa Rica and Brazil.

Canadian airlines would be required to provide:

Passengers' full name

Date of birth

Gender

'Known traveller number' -- an identifier given to passengers the U.S. deems do not pose a threat

But under the proposal, the U.S. would also like information such as passengers' itineraries, including departure airport code, departure time, and arrival destination and time.

The goal, according to a report in The Globe and Mail, is to prevent known or suspected terrorists from boarding planes, possibly putting others at risk.

The Department of Homeland Security's Trasportation Security Agency has filed Notice of Proposed Rulemaking documents on the proposal.

Canadian airline officials say the proposal is unnecessary because Canada already has its own no-fly list.

"Our position is that it just does not make sense in light of the fact that Canada has its own no-fly list, which was developed very closely and in co-operation with U.S authorities," said Air Transportation Association of Canada policy vice-president, Fred Gaspar.

Canada's no-fly list, put into effect on June 18, includes as many as 2,000 names.

One possible scenario under the proposed plan, Gaspar said, is that a plane planning to travel through a small portion of U.S. airspace could be intercepted and forced to land.

He told The Globe there are also privacy concerns.

"This is a data-fishing expedition by a third-party government. What makes this problematic is that you're heading to another country and you're not trying to get into the U.S. What's the point of this co-operative approach if our list isn't deemed to be good enough for the United States? They're using a hammer to swat a fly."

rest of article

Oh, for pity's sake! This is getting absolutely ridiculous! If I want to go somewhere, why does a country that isn't even my own need to know everything about me and my trip?

[__Kratos__]

Oh, for pity's sake! This is getting absolutely ridiculous! If I want to go somewhere, why does a country that isn't even my own need to know everything about me and my trip?

Because you're flying in it's airspace?

[glorybebe]

Because you're flying in it's airspace?

They would not be landing in the US, but flying over.

[Lt_Ripley]

They're using a hammer to swat a fly

that's what the whole war on terrorism in Iraq is doing actually. kill one and make 3 angry enough to join .

[glorybebe]

that's what the whole war on terrorism in Iraq is doing actually. kill one and make 3 angry enough to join .

Sad, but true.

[Unlimited]

that's what the whole war on terrorism in Iraq is doing actually. kill one and make 3 angry enough to join .

but bush says the war makes us safer...

[__Kratos__]

They would not be landing in the US, but flying over.

Because planes have never been used as weapons before. Just an idea from the other side of things.

Though I don't really agree with the entire idea of just handing over infomation like it's candy. If the US says it must be done, other countries will say the same and the privacy of people would be compromised.

[glorybebe]

Because planes have never been used as weapons before. Just an idea from the other side of things.

Though I don't really agree with the entire idea of just handing over infomation like it's candy. If the US says it must be done, other countries will say the same and the privacy of people would be compromised.

You got it. I totally understand the need to know who is coming into the country, but on a flight that isn't even landing in the US, that is just beyond reasonable IMO.

[Caesar]

I think Canadian security is good enough, this all seems like hypocritical behavior on the part of the U.S. we want data on Canadians flying over but don't do hardly anything on all the illegal aliens in the country. any American can understand why this policy would offend Canadians....eh

[ships-cat]

You got it. I totally understand the need to know who is coming into the country, but on a flight that isn't even landing in the US, that is just beyond reasonable IMO.

I think this is reasonable. After all, the 911 attackers flew over US airspace, and THEY had no plans on landing either.

OK - that's slightly mischeivous, but what if the NEXT airliner attack is from an external airport ?

Our of curiousity, is the same requirement being made of South American airlines that transit the US ?

Meow Purr.

[questionmark]

I think this is reasonable. After all, the 911 attackers flew over US airspace, and THEY had no plans on landing either.

OK - that's slightly mischeivous, but what if the NEXT airliner attack is from an external airport ?

Our of curiousity, is the same requirement being made of South American airlines that transit the US ?

Meow Purr.

Every airline, even Europeans, despite not being very legal under the European Privacy Act. The commission had to bend every rule to accommodate the US.

[odas]

Will the US provide the same information to other countries? It would be only fair enough.

[Shaftsbury]

I'll make the same comment about this as I did for the gun registration, the only people affected by this are the innocent citizens.

Criminals and terrorists don't play by the rules people, so asking them for their ID and personal information is pointless.

I heard on the news that credit card information may also have to be revealed, do you think terrorists use their own cards?

[questionmark]

I'll make the same comment about this as I did for the gun registration, the only people affected by this are the innocent citizens.

Criminals and terrorists don't play by the rules people, so asking them for their ID and personal information is pointless.

I heard on the news that credit card information may also have to be revealed, do you think terrorists use their own cards?

Since when were any of the requests by the Department of Homeland Security backed by any kind of logic?

[Shaftsbury]

Since when were any of the requests by the Department of Homeland Security backed by any kind of logic?

Well I suppose I could be wrong.

If they were using their Platinum Al Quida card and were trying to collect Air Miles on it, that could throw up some red flags.

[Stixxman]

yeah that is reaching a bit there. And somebody said it, professional terrorists won't go under their names, they will have fake indentities that check out. Any 'system' can be defeated as long as you know the rules of the system.

[questionmark]

yeah that is reaching a bit there. And somebody said it, professional terrorists won't go under their names, they will have fake indentities that check out. Any 'system' can be defeated as long as you know the rules of the system.

Which is precisely why this whole crap is pure actionism. If you collect enough data you'll end up unable to process it while at the same time feeling secure. Happened before 9/11 will happen again. The only thing people learn from history is that they learn nothing. And I dont think we should stop them in their fervor.

[Atheist God]

This whole thing is kinda stupid and won't do a damn thing besides annoy people. If a terrorist wants to blow something up or kill someone it's gonna happen. The only thing people can do is hope they aren't in the wrong place at the wrong time. Asking for personal information for passengers who happen to fly over is absurd and pointless.

yeah that is reaching a bit there. And somebody said it, professional terrorists won't go under their names, they will have fake indentities that check out. Any 'system' can be defeated as long as you know the rules of the system.

I agree if people are determined enough no amount of security will work it will only delay the inevitable.

[swtp]

I just don,t get it! Canada and the US worked togeather on the no fly lists and have virtually the same security! So why is it suddenly not good enough? Especially with planes that arn,t even going to land there?

[glorybebe]

I just don,t get it! Canada and the US worked togeather on the no fly lists and have virtually the same security! So why is it suddenly not good enough? Especially with planes that arn,t even going to land there?

Control.

[questionmark]

Control.

If they could control... the more data to process the less likely they find the "red herring" .

[swtp]

Control.

Oh ok, and while they are controlling that which doesn,t need to be controled and spreading fear propaganda about gum ball machines, they will be too busy to identify the real threat that will simply walk right on in and blow something else up killing a few thousand or even worse poison the water supply to millions of homes or something!

[glorybebe]

Oh ok, and while they are controlling that which doesn,t need to be controled and spreading fear propaganda about gum ball machines, they will be too busy to identify the real threat that will simply walk right on in and blow something else up killing a few thousand or even worse poison the water supply to millions of homes or something!

I never said it was a smart move, LOL. Just think about a while back when they threw two Canadians in jail for travelling to Cuba. We have nothing against Cuba, but the US does. They wanted to stop everyone from having anything to do with Cuba, just like a bully in the school yard. It is a matter of controlling things that they think will give their citizens comfort, whether it will really benefit them or not. Personally, I think there is more behind this since they can't be so silly to think that they will have people admitting they are really terrorists, like other posters have already stated.

[keithisco]

I think this is reasonable. After all, the 911 attackers flew over US airspace, and THEY had no plans on landing either.

OK - that's slightly mischeivous, but what if the NEXT airliner attack is from an external airport ?

Our of curiousity, is the same requirement being made of South American airlines that transit the US ?

Meow Purr.

What would they do with this information anyway? If 9/11 was a terrorist attack then the fact that theyknew who these people were, that they had received Pilot Training, and also knew beforehand that they were were on the Passenger Lists, didnt exactly ring amy alarm bells anywhere.

I agree, it's all about control

[questionmark]

I never said it was a smart move, LOL. Just think about a while back when they threw two Canadians in jail for travelling to Cuba. We have nothing against Cuba, but the US does. They wanted to stop everyone from having anything to do with Cuba, just like a bully in the school yard. It is a matter of controlling things that they think will give their citizens comfort, whether it will really benefit them or not. Personally, I think there is more behind this since they can't be so silly to think that they will have people admitting they are really terrorists, like other posters have already stated.

My I suggest flying over Mexico if you want to go to Cuba? If they ask just say you've been to Acapulco