Was Man a bit slow

[Harks]

As long as I have remembered, archaeology and the pursuit of lost civilisations have fascinated me. There are many beliefs and issues about how long man and its civilisation has been around. Well unless we were there, then there are no absolutes and the teachings that society haphazardly force upon us is more fiction then fact. Sure in modern history there are more facts, but it is the belief that ancient civilisations did not start up until approx 6000 years ago, and there was nothing but stone age man before that. Lets look at the big picture, man has been wondering around this blue planet for at least 100 000 years, as say the modern scientists, and only in 6000 years out of a 100 000 has man decided to build a hut, live in large groups and grow agriculture plants. Now for 94 000 years mankind could not be bothered, and preferred to live in the wild hunting and gathering. Using logical thinking I do not believe this, as there was no biological or intellectual difference between man today and 100 000 years ago, so what prevented man from advancing in those 94 000 years or what started off the development of civilisation.

Lets look at what has happen in the last 6000 years – man has started practicing agriculture, building huts, smelting metals, building boats, writing, creating commerce, then for some reason they built the pyramids not just in Egypt, but all around the world, as well as many other stone structures. Now, why is that and why are they all built around the same time. How come the Mayan Calenders are more accurate than modern ones, and why is it that for such an isolated people to be so advanced, they knew more about stars, planets and their movements then Europeans could hope to achieve in a thousand years.

Is it because of modern historian’s dogmatic thinking, suppression by religious factions, politics, or loss of historical evidence through war, or natural disasters? Are European historian’s so insecure that they must make out that they where the first transatlantic explorers, the inventors of all that is high culture and technologically advanced?

My mind boggles with so many holes in the course of human history. I have often wonder if man had advanced before to a high cultured and technically advanced civilisation only to be destroyed by a natural or unnatural disasters that would set back their culture to a former primitive stage to start again. Will it happen again, it looks that way, so what if we had a nuclear war, or virus outbreak, or a global natural disaster and 80 to 90% of the population died, do you think that the remaining 10 – 20% of the population would be able to continue current technologies, and lifestyle?

After a few of thousand years will there be any evidence left to show we were here in this high tech world at all, or will their religious/historical/political belief’s cover it up and control what information is allowed to be public knowledge. I have an inkling it’s happening now, with so many archaeology anomalies and out of place artefacts, how can we know what is truth and what is fiction?

I am not a creationist, or a die-hard Darwinist, I am a human being searching for the truth and there is a saying of mine I follow; “Question everything, Disregard nothing, and then the Truth will be Found”. I am not a scientist or a highly educated person, but I do have a mind of my own and as long as I have control over my own beliefs, society can not keep me in the dark forever.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? Can anyone give information that may help me on my journey to the truth?

[kjmk]

This is an age old question that there are no known answers. You can only surmise what may be the truth. Who know, 6000 years ago, maybe that's when Aliens first visited.

(Good post!)

[Harks]

Aliens now that is an interesting theory, I have thought that intervention from an outside influence possible, but as long as the government denise this and the ET's don't officially say g'day we can not prove it. There are other possiblities such as cosmic radiation changing our DNA and giving the human brain a kick start, but that is still just a theory.

[aquatus1]

Confirm or deny what? You make several statements.

[Harks]

Sorry if I had too many questions in my text, but I feel they are linked in some way, my main question was basiclly way did civilization start off so late by history standards. Man had a long time to get going or did it start earlier and stop for a while for some reason?

[leftovers]

This is an age old question that there are no known answers. You can only surmise what may be the truth. Who know, 6000 years ago, maybe that's when Aliens first visited.

(Good post!)

sounds about right

[BigDaddy_GFS]

The Sumerians claimed that there civilization was attributed to the Annunaki...people from Heaven whom taught them just about everything useful in building what we think of as civilization.

They went from being illiterate nomads, barely beyond cave men, to city-dwellers who were practicing astronomy, agriculture, and metallurgy. And seemingly did it witihn a few centuries.

How? Divine intervention? Aliens guidance? Who knows?

Edited January 11, 2006 by BigDaddy_GFS

[Harks]

Are you talking about planet X (Nibiru)

[QueryAnalyzer]

I agree with your line of thought. I find sometimes amazing to see how a civilization could build for example the Temple of Jupiter, a structure that has rocks that no known modern artifact could lift by itself. I too think that we have pictured lost civilizations as dumb and inmoral and stuff, but I do think that once we had technology that we don't even imagine right now.

I find that our society has imposed us of some knowledge of how we need to picture old civilizations. I am neither a creationist ( I find the story on the bible sometimes ridiculous) , but I have seen many gaps for example in the theory of evolution,so I am neither a hardcore fan of evolution. I want the truth, and I can't trust interpretations...I hope someday we will find the absolute truth.

One thing that annoys me nowadays, is that if you doubt evolution, then you are commiting heresy and people think of you as a religious fundamentalist. Damn I hate that. Anyway, I agree with you on your line of thought.

Things I repent that modern man did:

- Columbus burned and destroyed many Indian artifacts and written history

- The fires of the library of Alexandria (we lost TONS of info there)

- many more, but I don't remember now

EDIT: and for the 6000 question, I think that evolution has teach us that 100 000 old men were as intelligent as an ape, and that our brains somehow evolved to reach the intelligence we have now..

Edited January 11, 2006 by QueryAnalyzer

[Potholer]

Sure in modern history there are more facts, but it is the belief that ancient civilisations did not start up until approx 6000 years ago, and there was nothing but stone age man before that.

Well, there's the first bit - the definition of a civilisation. I read an article in The New Scientist a year or so ago about a huge area that had a very dense population but was dated at 8000BC or so. They were debating whether this is evidence of a civilisation or not because of a number of factors. For example, though there were huge numbers of people living in an area, there was no evidence of commercial areas, industrial, or even set cemetaries - most bodies were buried beneath the "houses". So, while civilisations didn't officially start until the Sumerians, it doesn't mean that before that, there was no language, culture or anything beyond "stone age men". Keep in mind that, after the stone age, there was the bronze age, iron age... It wasn't a sudden jump.

then for some reason they built the pyramids not just in Egypt, but all around the world, as well as many other stone structures. Now, why is that and why are they all built around the same time.

Fascinating isn't it? Maybe it has something to do with human nature and thought. In the same way that two independent people can come up with the same idea.

How come the Mayan Calenders are more accurate than modern ones, and why is it that for such an isolated people to be so advanced, they knew more about stars, planets and their movements then Europeans could hope to achieve in a thousand years.

It's not more accurate is it? It was more accurate than every other civilisation of its time and up until our current calender was created. I think you're exaggerating with your last statement though. Are you saying that the Mayans knew about as much about the makeup of stars, planets, galaxies, etc etc as we do now?

Is it because of modern historian’s dogmatic thinking, suppression by religious factions, politics, or loss of historical evidence through war, or natural disasters?

Probably all of them. Screeds of information is lost through war and natural disasters. Book burnings, destroyed monuments, tidal waves, think about how many historic buildings are lost to earthquakes. Though it sounds like a conspiracy theory, authorities do cover up discoveries. It happens in Egypt because the locals don't like their "truth" being undermined. My sister didn't want to do Egyptian archaeology for that reason. Also, sometimes if certain finds don't match the set chronological order, the finding is dismissed or ignored, lest the archaeologist's reputation is ruined for such an outlandish proposal. It happens but I don't think all the time, though.

Last of all, you'd be surprised how fast technology helps with progress. We have learned to build on prior knowledge instead of always starting from square one. But, without the first few steps, you wont go anywhere fast.

[QueryAnalyzer]

It's not more accurate is it?

Sorry for responding this, but yes, the Mayan Calendar is more accurate than the Gregorian one. Do a search on wikipedia or any other astronomy site. Its more accurate like about 1/10 of a day or something like that. I do not have the exact fact right now

EDIT:

365.242036 days - Mayan

365.2425 days - Gregorian

Sources:

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/astronomy/MayanCalendar.html

http://www.factbites.com/topics/Mayan

Edited January 11, 2006 by QueryAnalyzer

[Potholer]

Ah, thanks QueryAnalyzer, I didn't know that. I knew they had the days calcualated to more decimals than other calendars but didn't realise it was so much more accurate *reads up on it*

EDIT:

Wow

Edited January 11, 2006 by Potholer

[Harks]

Thanks guys for the feedback, I have tried to talk to my friends about the topic, but most of the time they think I am weird by just bringing it up. I hope the truth will reveal itself in good time, maybe when we are ready to grasp the big picture.

[QueryAnalyzer]

Hey Potholer, could you expand a bit on that Egyptian issue.

Of why the authorities cover it up, and some examples if you have. I am interested in learning about that.

[Potholer]

Sure, Query . I was going to but figured that, if someone was interested, they'd ask, rather than typing it all out and no one reading it.

Give me a sec to find a few sources and give proper details. I know at least one example off the top of my head but not names or dates - which is most important with this sort of thing.

EDIT:

Ok, right now having a few issues finding sites that look respectable but one example I can mention is that a number of vases were discovered with very thin necks. They were dated at a time earlier than should be for necks that thin (because, supposedly, at the given date, the egyptians weren't advnaced enough to produce such thin necks) so the finds weren't officially announced.

I'm wracking my brains trying to remember where I've heard these things from

Edited January 11, 2006 by Potholer

[Harks]

I have read a few articles of coverups all over the world, one interesting one was with New Zealand, where there was evadence of Celtics arriving at The Waipoua Forest. A non-Polynesian culture that preceded the Maori, but the local tribe was not happy about the find and complained to the government, which in turn covered up the find and put in a policy to with hold archaeological information from the public for 75 years.

[Potholer]

Yeah, I heard about that one too, Harks. We watched a wee video in Social Studies about the origins of the indigenous Maori and one particular researcher stumbled upon ruins in Waipoua Forest and afterwards was forbidden to take cameras or go there again.

Forgers, Scholars, and International Prestige: the role of Ancient Egypt at the time of the discovery of Iberian culture

Jose Perez-Accino

Centre for Extra-Mural Studies, Birkbeck College, London

The affair of the falsification of the first discoveries of Iberian culture and their pretended oriental - especially Egyptian - origin was motivated by an aim to mimic the French expeditions in the Mediterranean (Egypt, Morea, Algeria, although its appearance was a late one in comparison with them because of internal Spanish political circumstances. The cultural and scientific atmosphere which made these expeditions possible arrived late in Spain, but these attempts to argue for the antiquity of the new-found materials, and also the official attitude towards them reveal a failed attempt to follow in the footsteps of the French, and to claim a place among the European powers.

Not exactly Egyptian but that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'd make more headway if I could only remember the name of the head of egyptian archaeology. He played a part in not letting people dig in certain places.

[QueryAnalyzer]

Ok, right now having a few issues finding sites that look respectable but one example I can mention is that a number of vases were discovered with very thin necks. They were dated at a time earlier than should be for necks that thin (because, supposedly, at the given date, the egyptians weren't advnaced enough to produce such thin necks) so the finds weren't officially announced.

I'm wracking my brains trying to remember where I've heard these things from

I guess its kind of hard finding any trustful sites on the issue. But I understand the governments hiding that stuff. If I were an owner of a pharmaceutical company, who distributes X pill , but if I made a research in which I gave X pill to a group of people, and a sugar pill to another group, and both groups have the same behaviour towards both pills, then I would be in a situation of a placebo effect, but I will dismiss the study because it puts in danger my business.

Many people make their lives around our current scientific knowledge, so a change in that, would mean the end for the career of many people...For example, physics have a hard time accepting dark matter, or dark energy or this tetraneutrons, because maybe this would mean that we need to rewrite physics, and it would be hard to tell millions of physicists that what they learned in college does not have any further sense.

Edited January 11, 2006 by QueryAnalyzer

[Saint Macabre]

The Sumerians claimed that there civilization was attributed to the Annunaki...people from Heaven whom taught them just about everything useful in building what we think of as civilization.

They went from being illiterate nomads, barely beyond cave men, to city-dwellers who were practicing astronomy, agriculture, and metallurgy. And seemingly did it witihn a few centuries.

How? Divine intervention? Aliens guidance? Who knows?

hmmm...do you think that the Annunaki and the "sons of heaven" mentioned in the Bible could have been the same? They are mentioned in 1 paragraph in Genesis, where it mentions the origin of the Nephilim ...

Genesis 6:1-4

When man began to multiply on earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of heaven saw how beautiful the daughters of man were, and so they took for their wives as many of them they chose. Then the Lord said: "My Spirit shall not remain in man forever, since he is but flesh. His days shall comprise one hundred and twenty years."

At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth (as well as later), after the sons of heaven had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of reknown.

Although, the sons of heaven's actions doesn't really fit with "heavenly" behavior...I believe the fallen angels would be more likely canidates to have behaved that way...

I remember reading in the Book of Enoch that they were the ones who taught us things we didn't know...

enoch

check out Ch. 7 and 8...

also...in the last line of the Genesis paragraph ^, they mention the heroes of old...who are they talking about?...or at least, does anyone have a theory?...

[Roj47]

Hi Harks,

Understand your original posting, and relate very fully in wanting to understand.

Before I set forward a few questions, I would point out I believe that there has been a civilisation (how do you determine more advanced? we argue technology, but what if the civilisation never stumbled across electricity? and their society was based on law, and that there was no need for prisons? argueably a more sound ivilisation than ours without technology) before our own.

Why would man not develope from 100k years ago to 6k?

Why are there tribes in south america that live in makeshift huts and hunt today?

Why are eskimos living in homes made of ice and hunting?

If it is genuinely proven that the water damage to the Sphinx is from the temperate era that predates other structures in the region, then you can argue for a date of 14k BC?

Given a world affecting event happened 75k years ago, then man would only have had 25k years to develope to todays standards.

I read somewhere, but never heard of since that 6k years ago (i think) there were massive basalt flows in the northern hemisphere which poisoned a good deal of the land.

Again this would hinder development.

Try a book `Fingerprints of the Gods` by Graham Hancock. I enjoyed this read, and although some of the items in there were very one sided opinion, I also foun a large amount rose very relevant points.

Its moer what you make of the evidence than having something thrust down your throat.

Should anyone know a better book, I would be more than happy to know, and read myself, so this is open

Good luck Harks in the search, and remember it may be more your opinion than fact in the end.

TC

R47

[PLO]

rmbr mans been evolving for roughly 4.5 million years ago[wtf did we do in all that time eh?]. And we missd the industrial revolution about 2000 years ago when the greeks invented steam power, then they forgot all about it. Took us another 2000 years to catch up again, but by then it was too late, we werent socialy advanced enough as people to harness such powers safely. Now were screwed.

[louie]

Sorry if I had too many questions in my text, but I feel they are linked in some way, my main question was basiclly way did civilization start off so late by history standards. Man had a long time to get going or did it start earlier and stop for a while for some reason?

hey man

you are on the right track.

Also start looking at buildings around the world that are aligned to the summer and winter solaciste. it wont give you answers but you will get a very good look at the bigger picture.

Intresting text mate

[louie]

Hi Harks,

Understand your original posting, and relate very fully in wanting to understand.

Before I set forward a few questions, I would point out I believe that there has been a civilisation (how do you determine more advanced? we argue technology, but what if the civilisation never stumbled across electricity? and their society was based on law, and that there was no need for prisons? argueably a more sound ivilisation than ours without technology) before our own.

Why would man not develope from 100k years ago to 6k?

Why are there tribes in south america that live in makeshift huts and hunt today?

Why are eskimos living in homes made of ice and hunting?

If it is genuinely proven that the water damage to the Sphinx is from the temperate era that predates other structures in the region, then you can argue for a date of 14k BC?

Given a world affecting event happened 75k years ago, then man would only have had 25k years to develope to todays standards.

I read somewhere, but never heard of since that 6k years ago (i think) there were massive basalt flows in the northern hemisphere which poisoned a good deal of the land.

Again this would hinder development.

Try a book `Fingerprints of the Gods` by Graham Hancock. I enjoyed this read, and although some of the items in there were very one sided opinion, I also foun a large amount rose very relevant points.

Its moer what you make of the evidence than having something thrust down your throat.

Should anyone know a better book, I would be more than happy to know, and read myself, so this is open

Good luck Harks in the search, and remember it may be more your opinion than fact in the end.

TC

R47

Try Hevans mirror by graham hancock

or a few of eric von dankiens books

[louie]

Thanks guys for the feedback, I have tried to talk to my friends about the topic, but most of the time they think I am weird by just bringing it up. I hope the truth will reveal itself in good time, maybe when we are ready to grasp the big picture.

I think its the same for most of us. our friends dont grasp what we are trying to figure out.

[draconic chronicler]

As for an alien technology theory, it is interesting that peoples seperated by oceans and continents all attribute their "assistance" in developing their civilization to benificent reptilian creatures. In China they are the dragons, in the western hemisphere they are "flying serpents like Kulakan and Quetzelcoatl, and in Sumeria they are servant mushushu dragons to the Gods, and to the Hebres they arethe "Watchers" which may be the reptilain creatures described in the book of Enoch with "heads like serpents full of sharp teeth." Based on the Book of job, Satan is one of these creatures, and later described as a "dragon" as well. All of these legends suggest advanced, reptiloid creatures probably not of this world since there is no paleontological evidence of an advanced reptile species developing on earth, though there is no reason to dismiss such possibilities on another planet, where perhaps there was not an extinction event such as that which destroyed the dinosaurs.

The same "reptilian helper" theory also fits the "God-creator" model as well, in that if we accept the evolutionary record, bipedal reptiles existed 200 million years before mankind, and one kind may have been the suitable "body" for a creator God to improve with greater intelligence to serve as assistants. The overwhelming scriptural and pictograhical evidence establishes that that the earliest, and most important heavenly creatures of Judao-Christian theology are distinctly reptilian in nature, the Seraphim, a word meaning in Hewbrews "bright/fiery winged serpents" -- perhaps the same "dragons" that persist in the legends of virtually every human culture.