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What happens when you die?


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#76    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:03 PM

View PostSean93, on 25 November 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

You know, I agree with that - the part about people being afraid of non-existence. Why? No one will know they're dead so it won't matter, personally I hope that is what death is, that would be amazing. But of course, people can't fathom non-existence because they want to see their loved ones or all that other corny stuff, but whatever.

Yes, & thinking logically, the 'afterlife' is just wishful thinking.

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#77    _Only

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:12 PM

View PostSean93, on 25 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Let's assume for a moment that NDE's are in fact real, the question is, why is their content different for each culture and belief? Why are some so wacky (The mermaid?) Perhaps, if they are real, and there is an after life, the widely varying accounts point to either all or most gods and goddesses being real, or none of them being real and there being something else that we don't know about.

I have been thinking while writing my dreams down and looking at them that maybe dreams and dream like scenarios (like NDEs) are completely non physical situations, translated by us in the only way our minds here know; physically. Something comes to us in a dream (maybe a presence, being, thought, emotion) and makes us feel a certain way, and one person will translate that thing into a mermaid, another a Native American spirit, etc. The mind translating what it doesn't understand into something it already does. If this was true, the emotions felt around the mermaid/spirit would be the important thing, not the physical-ish being itself.

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#78    White Crane Feather

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostSean93, on 25 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Let's assume for a moment that NDE's are in fact real, the question is, why is their content different for each culture and belief?
even the content of a car accident will be different upon perspective. Now imagine an altered state Of conciousness where you are not using your biological senses only representations of them so that they can fit into the framework of your mind. It's a miricle NDEs are as consistent as they are.

Edited by Seeker79, 25 November 2012 - 08:46 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#79    White Crane Feather

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:45 PM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 25 November 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Nothing. And that is why we have religion because the majority of humans cannot accept death as being final.
Not true. Religions are usually based on the mystical experiences of Somone. The wishful thinking may come afterwords.

Edited by Seeker79, 25 November 2012 - 08:47 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#80    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:11 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 25 November 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

Not true. Religions are usually based on the mystical experiences of Somone. The wishful thinking may come afterwords.

I disagree & my point stands. God through the ages has traditionally been sold on the premise of 'do as he says (we say) and you'll enter paradise when you die, disobey & you'll burn in hell'. God and religion has & still is a method of keeping the masses 'in line' with the fear of eternal damnation if you step out of line. If a god were truly 'all forgiving' then you could lead any lifestyle you wished. As with most things religious there are just too many contradictions.

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#81    White Crane Feather

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:15 PM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 25 November 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:



I disagree & my point stands. God through the ages has traditionally been sold on the premise of 'do as he says (we say) and you'll enter paradise when you die, disobey & you'll burn in hell'. God and religion has & still is a method of keeping the masses 'in line' with the fear of eternal damnation if you step out of line. If a god were truly 'all forgiving' then you could lead any lifestyle you wished. As with most things religious there are just too many contradictions.
I'm not going to argue those points because I agree... But these are not the beginnings of spiritual beliefs, they are an after affect.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#82    spartan max2

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:37 PM

Actually NDEs do not vary that much from culture to culture. They all have some pretty consitent elements too((like the tunnel, being visted from dead people,life review etc). What varies is peoples interpretation. A muslim see's a "being of light" then he calls is Allah if a christian see's a "being of light" he mite call it God.

Edited by spartan max2, 25 November 2012 - 10:38 PM.

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#83    _Only

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:04 AM

View Postspartan max2, on 25 November 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Actually NDEs do not vary that much from culture to culture. They all have some pretty consitent elements too((like the tunnel, being visted from dead people,life review etc). What varies is peoples interpretation. A muslim see's a "being of light" then he calls is Allah if a christian see's a "being of light" he mite call it God.

Where as a skeptic will see a being of light and call it malarkey. :P

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#84    MistyW

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:10 AM

You are absorbed back into the essence of the universe, from where you came from. Wouldn't describe myself as atheist though,


#85    Kazahel

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:15 AM

Sorry to use a song here but I think its along the lines of David Bowies song 'Sound and Vision' mixed with the Bosom of Abraham. My belief originated from a personal experience though and was not one formed from reading the bible(I still havent read that yet lol). So I dont believe in the silence because I've read about it. Anyway I think this song is kinda fitting to my belief.




#86    Bling

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:50 AM

The bickering, and off topic posts aside, I have enjoyed reading your theories. I will post mine in full when I'm next on my laptop as it will take too long to reply using this iPod Touch!


#87    Bling

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:20 PM

View PostBling, on 24 November 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

If you are an atheist, agnostic, non believer, non religious person....what do you believe happens when you die?

Physically, Spiritually, Emotionally, Morally....whatever.

I am an atheist. And last week I went to my first non religious funeral, and it was beautiful because it only spoke of the deceased....not God, not Jesus, just Tony my brother in law. It was a peaceful experience, no hopes and promises of alleged things to come, just a celebration and insight into his life.

So what do I now believe happens when we die - from a atheists perspective?

Physically - we decompose and our remains somehow (I'm not a scientist) are absorbed into the world around us, whether we are buried or cremated. Our body doesn't just completely disappear into thin air!

Spiritually - I think we all have a spirit, it's not just reserved for the religious and holy. My spirit or soul....whatever makes me tick, is a mass of energy and life and will be released into the environment/atmosphere and reused (I'm all for recycling!)

I look at death like this.....I'll use a candle as an analogy. When we are born our 'candle' is lit, and stays alight during our life. Yes, it may flicker during the hard times and illness, but it remains alight. At death, our light is snuffed out, but our residual energy (like the candle smoke, smell and heat) is released and reused. Maybe we're ghosts, reincarnated....whatever, I dunno - no one does!
I no longer need to believe in the religious version of the afterlife and 'hope' it's all real. If I die and that's it....well then I've had a varied life and right now deep down I am happy and content with my life.


#88    Sean93

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:53 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 25 November 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

even the content of a car accident will be different upon perspective. Now imagine an altered state Of conciousness where you are not using your biological senses only representations of them so that they can fit into the framework of your mind. It's a miricle NDEs are as consistent as they are.

Would you say dreams are more than just 'biological?'. You say that the consistency of NDE's are a miracle but you may not know this - there is a consistency in dreams all across the world, on of the most common is teeth falling out, or falling or another big one is going back to school. Dreams also happen to be an altered state of consciousness where we use representations of biological senses but no one flips out and thinks that they're real just because they can feel in a dream or that they can smell a flower. Also, what do you mean by the car crash?

When you say "Now imagine an altered state Of conciousness where you are not using your biological senses only representations of them so that they can fit into the framework of your mind" - are you saying that NDE's and what we experience in them exists outside of biology and cannot be fully explained with it? Because as far as I am aware, the mind is made up of the chemical reactions in the brain, the brain which is a biological organ that is very real indeed and an organ that's properties and functions can be observed by scientific methods.

Edited by Sean93, 26 November 2012 - 02:10 PM.

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#89    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:54 PM

View PostSean93, on 26 November 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:



Would you say dreams are more than just 'biological?'. You say that the consistency of NDE's are a miracle but you may not know this - there is a consistency in dreams all across the world, on of the most common is teeth falling out, or falling or another big one is going back to school. Dreams also happen to be an altered state of consciousness where we use representations of biological senses but no one flips out and thinks that they're real just because they can feel in a dream or that they can smell a flower. Also, what do you mean by the car crash?

When you say "Now imagine an altered state Of conciousness where you are not using your biological senses only representations of them so that they can fit into the framework of your mind" - are you saying that NDE's and what we experience in them exists outside of biology and cannot be fully explained with it? Because as far as I am aware, the mind is made up of the chemical reactions in the brain, the brain which is a biological organ that is very real indeed and an organ that's properties and functions can be observed by scientific methods.
Well many do believe certain kinds of dreams have spiritual components. Yes many have similar dreams. On function of dreaming is where internal conflicts play out. We all have had our teeth fall out and tooth decay is a real problem that we all face. Equating that with the standard NDE seems like quit a stretch. But it wouldn't matter anyway. Why would many thousands potentially millions, if we stretch back into history, of people have the same kind of "dream/hullucination" upon near death that strongly hints at an after life and a spirit realm. Not only that.... The experience has a definite positive corololation with the development of life saveing technology.

Yes that is as far as you are aware. But that dosnt make it fundamental reality. There are two hypothesis:

1) the brain is a materialistic producer of conciousness

2) the brain is a receiver of conciousness ( like a radio)

In either scenario the physical brain and it's components are entirely necessary. Any tampering with it will produce affects. If I were to make a prediction 100 years ago using the brain as receiver theory, one of them would be that there would be more NDEs with better medical technology. I'll make the prediction now. As lifesaveing technologies improve from this point in history, we will see more incidents of NDEs.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#90    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:56 PM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 25 November 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:



Yes, & thinking logically, the 'afterlife' is just wishful thinking.
How is that logical when you offer no arguments back up your "logical" statement?

Edited by Seeker79, 26 November 2012 - 03:57 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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