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how do you explain shared experiences?


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#31    SpiritWriter

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:32 PM

I still dont agree frank, maybe you feel that way, maybe its because of culture. Well my culture if you see a ghost you need to get on medication so you should probably be quiet so people dont think your crazy. But.. we have a lot of people seeing ghosts or what have you. Your equally as crazy if you have a religious experience yet there's a church on every corner that firmly believes in the literariness of the bible... and to top it off we life in a world that is noticably insane.. but WE have to be quiet about these things?

Now if the above poster wouldn't have told her mom about what happened, they wouldn't have been able to confirm that they all had the same experience. With something as endearing as a visit from your sister, this, to me should be shared. It is also a relief to others who have or are going through similar things to know they are not alone. I for one am tired of having to be quiet and have determined I will speak freely about it if I feel the situation calls for it. And I dam sure will not pretend things like these dont exist.  Experiencing something because it comes upon you spontaneously is quiet different than going out and investigating them. And thats not to say they shouldnt be investegated, the biggest vent seems to be its not proven by science ok, well what is science? Its investigation...

Talking about what happened should be a natural way of sorting out these things for yourself and collaboration with others adds to that. This is the process of any type of experience in life. If we werent meant to know anything about them, then they wouldn't be revealed to us in the first place.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#32    Frank Merton

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:37 PM

I would not say we aren't meant to know about them but that we can't know about them.  They are outside what our minds can handle.  And don't misinterpret that either -- such knowledge would not harm us, it would simply be meaningless to us.


#33    SpiritWriter

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:13 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 15 March 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

I would not say we aren't meant to know about them but that we can't know about them.  They are outside what our minds can handle.  And don't misinterpret that either -- such knowledge would not harm us, it would simply be meaningless to us.

I dont think it's meaningless. I think it is full of meaning.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#34    coldethyl

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:57 PM

I don't know if this has been stated or not, but I believe it's pop culture.

When Communion came out all alien sightings looked like what we now know as 'the greys'.

When The Exorcist came out demonic haunting and possesions were the rage.  When Poltergeist came out, same thing.

Also I think the brain may make the same type of hallucination depending on what is happening to it.  For instance, lack of oxygen may induce a certain type of spectre as sleep paralysis gives the heavyness on the chest and the feeling of a presence in the room.

Just my opinion.


#35    XChipX

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:11 PM

I have been visiting and reading this site and these forums for 3 years now and ive been a member for a while but this is my first post and id like to comente here. I agree with CrimsonKing in general.. As to shared experiences there are many ways to take on the subject and analyze the situation.
If its in person when they are telling you the experience you can observe the way the talk and some of their corporal language to see if their are nervous, extremely relaxed of trying to make themselves to look good, their voice tones can also sido in this. This can tell you helpful things as to wether they'll be lying of telling their truth.
While reading on the forums, ive learnt that they way of writing and describing situations can also hint what they are really trying to tell and also if they take on the subject seriously.

I have had experiences myself that I dont have the answer for and others where I did find answers. I consider myself neutral between believing and  being skeptic. I tend to find logical solutions before jumping to the paranormal.
Because of the above I think is neccesary to evaluate the situation first. In a shared experience case I would try to know the characteristics of the environment. What were they doing before the experience, how were they feeling, how do they feel after the experience and what do they think about it, ask about any habits they have and correlate them to make a theory, a theory that can lead you to choose to believe, not to believe and to believe their minds tricked them insto seeing of experiencing something and find a posible explanaiton.
As to wether they are inventing the story of not, you will usually find incoherencies between their story and answers of questions you can ask them for more information about the subject but this won' always work ( note a said "usually" and that can you a little bit of an idea as to wether the discussion is going to


#36    Alekx

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:28 PM

Sorry, its me XChipX, i had to remake account becuase of email reasons


#37    coldethyl

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:59 AM

Is it me or did the post above just inexplicably end in mid sentence?

Aliens?!?


#38    White Unicorn

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:56 AM

View Postcoldethyl, on 04 April 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

I don't know if this has been stated or not, but I believe it's pop culture.

When Communion came out all alien sightings looked like what we now know as 'the greys'.

When The Exorcist came out demonic haunting and possesions were the rage.  When Poltergeist came out, same thing.

Also I think the brain may make the same type of hallucination depending on what is happening to it.  For instance, lack of oxygen may induce a certain type of spectre as sleep paralysis gives the heavyness on the chest and the feeling of a presence in the room.

Just my opinion.

This is true in many cases.
I'd like to present an example.  We went on several ghost tours in Gettysburgh during a vacation. Entertaining history and stories but nothing else.
In the sky one night there were several orbs. People saw them and took pictures that came out.  They were definitely real whatever the lights were.

I found it interesting that the people were saying oo ghosts. If it were a UFO tour they would have said aliens or something like that, somewhere else they might say fairies, a sceptic would say a marketing hoax but it didn't happen for every tour,  a scientist may say swamp gas but there wasn't a swamp, and me I just said it looks like what I call ball lightning what ever it is, I don't have enough information to say it's ghosts!.....  Culture does add the spice to all the perceptions, it doesn't take from the shared experience because something was witnessed.  

To me the most ghostly thing that happened was not on the tour but at an old inn. The whole town has an aura of tragedy and you can "feel" it stronger in some places, I call it picking up on the residue energy fields of past events.

I was in the restroom when the toilet paper holder flew off the wall and hit me, then the mirror jiggled on the wall.  After being startled, I came out laughing and said to the owner, this place has a poltergheist. I'm serious,you could make more money than the so called ghost tours in town.  She said, I know but I don't get into that stuff because they want more and more attention and will drain you of your energy and that is bad for our business.

I went to the bar to meet my spouse who was going to have an after dinner  beer and told him the place was active but I couldn't see anything. He said I know I get glimps of shadows here. He believes in ghosts.   As he was talking to the man who owned the bar with his wife, his beer moved away from his hand, and each time he reached for it, it moved in another direction, My spouse abruptly says to the invisible entity,  Get your own damn beer! then it  slid down to the end of the bar to a man who was eating.  He told the bartender, Oh, I guess I can buy him a beer too if that's what he wants and ordered another beer for himself.  The look on the face of the other man who was at the bar was priceless when the beer fell over on his plate!  He turns white and goes Oh My God, did you people see that! This place has a demon! don't you care?  and he left the his sandwich and drink.  Other people at the tables that noticed the moving beer were so amazed being "ghost" seekers and got to see something. Someone asked are we all on Candid Camera or something? The owners told her no.  We  had fun because we were all still laughing about the sceptic seeing something weird for the first time and running out the door in fear LOL                

I'm a sensitive but I am also a  sceptic to the perception of what an experience really is. It takes a very long time to discover the truth behind what some things are, if ever. You shouldn't jump to any conclusions even about your own experiences that are shared by others.  There are many facinating things in the world that are truly amazing, but the belief in the myths about them might be wrong.

Edited by White Unicorn, 08 April 2013 - 03:09 AM.


#39    SpiritWriter

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 03:47 AM

I agree

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#40    CrimsonKing

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:06 AM

View PostAlekx, on 04 April 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Sorry, its me XChipX, i had to remake account becuase of email reasons

I agree with the post you made from your old account above not just because you agreed with me first haha  I just believe we cannot process everything,so being believer and skeptic is about the best we can hope to be and remain sound in thought.Everything must have a reason,though we may not ever always know why.

BTW welcome to UM  :tu:

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#41    Frank Merton

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:38 AM

The more I participate on this board, the more skeptical I become.  The fact is it is too easy for people to make unsupported and even manifestly absurd claims.  Maybe some of them are true, but I have no way to assess this and that they are not true becomes more and more likely.

Frankly it is discouraging.


#42    CrimsonKing

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:57 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 08 April 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

The more I participate on this board, the more skeptical I become.  The fact is it is too easy for people to make unsupported and even manifestly absurd claims.  Maybe some of them are true, but I have no way to assess this and that they are not true becomes more and more likely.

Frankly it is discouraging.

I can see your point,sometimes people can misinterpret the ordinary for the extraordinary.I will say since i have been on this forum,even when skeptic i now try to atleast see the person making the claims whole view.Sometimes these views are just to outlandish to be believed,though even without evidence some have made me really think that they know what they had seen or experienced.If im not sure i will be considerate,if convinced of utter foolishness i will call BS!  :lol:

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#43    scowl

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:11 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 08 April 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

The more I participate on this board, the more skeptical I become.  The fact is it is too easy for people to make unsupported and even manifestly absurd claims.  Maybe some of them are true, but I have no way to assess this and that they are not true becomes more and more likely.

I just don't respond to the tales from first-time posters. They usually sound like something they saw in a cheap horror movie, they usually end with a desperate plea for help because this is destroying their lives (then what the **** are you doing asking for help from strangers on the ****ing Internet???), and they almost never respond when you ask for more information.

I picture a teenage kid smirking and thinking, "I bet those smartypants skeptics won't have an explanation for this..."


#44    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:45 PM

View Postscowl, on 08 April 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

I just don't respond to the tales from first-time posters. They usually sound like something they saw in a cheap horror movie, they usually end with a desperate plea for help because this is destroying their lives (then what the **** are you doing asking for help from strangers on the ****ing Internet???), and they almost never respond when you ask for more information.

I picture a teenage kid smirking and thinking, "I bet those smartypants skeptics won't have an explanation for this..."

Because it's not as if you can find your local "expert" in the yellow pages.

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#45    scowl

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:29 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 08 April 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Because it's not as if you can find your local "expert" in the yellow pages.

This place right here is the very last place you'll find a local "expert".

Do these people have no friends or family they can talk to? They never say they've talked to anyone about their experiences.

When I started waking up with hallucinations, I went to a shrink who referred me to a sleep disorder specialist who solved my problem. If this had happened thirty years later, I'd probably have a blog talking about my experiences with ghosts or aliens.





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