ghost or not ?

[Thistle]

OK, this ones been bugging me ever since I picked up James Herbert's new book. Possibly in the wrong forum but I'm sure a nice mod will move it if necessary.

Assuming that Out of body experiences are a genuine phenomena, what would happen if a person was murdered whilst having an OOBE ?...presumably they would then be unable to re-enter their body but would this make them a conscious ghost or something else ?

any theories on this one ?

[Cufflink]

Good question, that, Thistle.

This all depends on the reader's perception of OOBE's. If they don't believe in the phenomena, or that some ghosts are trapped spirits, then they're not going to buy into that, either.

But if OOBE's are genuine, either the person would `pass on', or if they were especially aggrieved or vengeful, would probably try and hang around somehow, in order to get their murderer.

.

[Xenojjin]

Sorry , but I am not sure what OOBE means . Best I can guess is " Out Of Body Experience " but I am not sure .

[Thistle]

Sorry , but I am not sure what OOBE means . Best I can guess is " Out Of Body Experience " but I am not sure .

LMAO Xeno..the clue for that would be the bit where I said ....." assuming that OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES are a genuine phenomena "

[Thistle]

Anyway, ta Cuffy.......would it be fair to say that it would make no difference whether the soul was in or out of the body at the moment of physical death ?

Dang, that Mr Herbert has a lot to answer for

[PurpleStuart]

I suppose it comes down to what you believ happens to the soul after death and whether or not you believe OOBE to be the soul leaving the body momentarily or if it is some kind of clairvoyance

[dancin'hamster]

Ummmmmmmmm.......blimey Thistle ........

*scratches head*

Ok, as I understand it, our bodies are made up of 3 'selves' ~ our physical body, our spiritual body and out astral body....... There are claims that people have been 'attacked' when they try to re-enter their bodies, or that they 'bring' something back with them.

I had an accident in my teens when I was hit by a drink-driver. I felt myself shooting up into the air and when I opened my eyes I was 'suspended' in mid-air ....... oh pooh this sounds soooooo cheesy. ANyhoo, while I was up in the air I watched myself rolling over the bonnet of the car, up onto the roof, then falling onto the pavement and rolling over and over before coming to a halt. I noticed that my shoe went flying one way, and my watch another and I saw my friends rushing over to my 'body' .......... then I was catapulted back into my body ...... and awoke with just severe bruising .........

So I guess what I am trying to say is that I cant answer the question .........

*shuffles off with Teddy*

Hammy x x x

[PurpleStuart]

Hammy - that must be quite an experience, glad to hear that you got away lightly - i hope they caught the driver. I have never had a OOBE so it's hard for me to work out what they are in my mind. That said, you may of answered the question yourself without realising it - if you had died of your injuries later, whilst still out of body surely you would of then gone on to the next plane/heaven/oblivion/whatever you believe in - OOBEs do seem to be very similar to near death experiences...

If we assume thats true, then if some one was killed/died whilst OOB then surely the same thing would happen. My logic is a bit spurious but i hope you catch my drift

[Xenojjin]

doy doy , I need to remember to read someones entire post ...

[Thistle]

Blimey Hams !!!!!!!! did that not freak you out ? even a teeny weeny bit ?

[thefirstman]

Hmmmm.I rckon you would stay trapped in your present state,if you were killed during an OOBE.Your spirit i am talking about.And you would continue on as a ghost.

[babyforrest]

Oh Thistle. I thought I had a theory on everything about spirituality. This is a noodle scratcher, all right. hmm....

[dancin'hamster]

Blimey Hams !!!!!!!! did that not freak you out ? even a teeny weeny bit ?

Yes it did.......when I came round I sat up and my shoe and watch were missing. I knew exactly where they were because I had seen it when I was up in the air. My friends carried me over to the nearest house (that of my mate Mandy) and were going to call a Dr, but I was fine! Just very bruised. And the driver sped off.

I didn't tell anyone about what I'd experienced until a few weeks later when I told my mum. She explained all about astral projection and OOBE's. I was hooked - another dimention of the paranormal to be explored ..........

Perhaps the shock of the incident caused a partof my brain to 'switch on' and protected me by making my body so relaxed that the impact didn't do too much damage. Or, maybe the impact knocked my soul out of my body......

Who knows?

Hammy x x x

[Hammys Teddy]

Blimey Hams !!!!!!!! did that not freak you out ? even a teeny weeny bit ?

Perhaps the shock of the incident caused a partof my brain to 'switch on' and protected me by making my body so relaxed that the impact didn't do too much damage. Or, maybe the impact knocked my soul out of my body......

Who knows?

Hammy x x x

*returns from Banshee hunt with 2 lephrecauns, 1 elf and 3 fairies*

I assume you were minding your own business and talking/laffing with your friends so perhaps you were already in a somewhat state of relaxation.

You may also have been fully aware of being hit by the car and everything that followed i.e. going over the bonnet, and rolling along the road etc but you simply remember it as if you had seen it from a 'thrid' party perspective.

Right gotta see to these faery folk, anyone have a number for P.T. Barnum

Indiana Teddy xx

[algernon the 3rd]

Crikey hammy that's some experience!

Damn good question thisle

This got me scratching my head for while. Well heres my theory.

I'm not sure how OOBEs are linked to the tunnels of light that people see when they flatline (actually die but are bought back). I pretty sure I've heard about people have OOBEs and then somehow progressing to the tunnel of light (whilst approach the point of death). Now if this is the case then it's possible that if someone was having an OOBE and was murdered then they'd experience the tunnel of light and then... well... who knows... So in the end it's be no different, unless somehow being murdered interupted the process.

[dancin'hamster]

I assume you were minding your own business and talking/laffing with your friends so perhaps you were already in a somewhat state of relaxation.

You may also have been fully aware of being hit by the car and everything that followed i.e. going over the bonnet, and rolling along the road etc but you simply remember it as if you had seen it from a 'thrid' party perspective.

Hmmmm.........maybe...........I'm still not 100% sure as to what happened that day.

My mum had a near-death experience when she was in hospital the first time having treatment for her cancer which I wont go into on here as it's far too painful. It made her sure thatt she would be 'met' by someone when her time came.

Maybe it was the morphine, maybe it was something else.........

[Thistle]

Thanks Algie, that is kinda the theory I'm leaning towards at the moment, but it does lead to the question:

Would your soul ( or whatever goes off on these jollies ) automatically pass on at the moment of death or would you have to return to your body to realise that you were " dead " ?

Hmmmmm, perhaps I should email Derek Acorah and see what kind of answer he can * cough* make up * cough* ..oops that should read " receive from his spirit guide Sam "

[Agent_21]

From a previous 'Reaper' thread:

There's often mention of a silver thread attaching the physical body to the astral one during astral travel. This chord extends wherever you roam during these episodes and is thought to anchor you to your body to make return possible. The severing of this thread would, I suppose, bring about death.

If OOBEs and astral travel are the same or similar, and, bearing in mind that the centre of consciousness seems to be outside the physical body in these cases, where would this other body (soul, astral body or whatever) go to and could this centre of consciousness influence it?

It couldn't go back into the body if it is dead. Maybe it dissolves to nothing, becomes what we call a ghost in the location of death, or takes a trip to the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Thistle]

There's often mention of a silver thread attaching the physical body to the astral one during astral travel. This chord extends wherever you roam during these episodes and is thought to anchor you to your body to make return possible. The severing of this thread would, I suppose, bring about death.

Thanks for that A21

I suppose if the severing of this thread would bring about death then it would follow that death would bring about the severance of the thread.....allowing the soul to move on.

I think I may now be able to concentrate on this book without too many questions buzzing round my head

[Scorpius]

Sounds like a riddle to me and a tough one, indeed.

First you have to compare different stories about O(o)BEs and the people who have claimed to have left there body whilst there body lay dead, and then have come back to their body. I, personally, haven't done any research on this comparison, yet. But this sounds like a good place to start for whoever is up to the challenge.

[ambyglam]

can u have an oobe when sleeping?

[algernon the 3rd]

can u have an oobe when sleeping?

No reason why not, but it'd be difficult to tell if you were having a oobe or a partiularly lucid dream.

[Agent_21]

Funny, I misread that as oboe. Must be the music of the spheres.

[dantheman2435]

I have had a strange out of body experince: one time when Me and my friends were climbing trees, I sliped. then I saw all sorts of blue and white lights... they formed a ring around me, i looked down and there was no down! or up! just endless space. then I came to. my friend told me I sliped and hit my head and neck on the way down the tree... Weird eh?

[antiaging]

OK, this ones been bugging me ever since I picked up James Herbert's new book.  Possibly in the wrong forum but I'm sure a nice mod will move it if necessary.

Assuming that Out of body experiences are a genuine phenomena, what would happen if a person was murdered whilst having an OOBE ?...presumably they would then be unable to re-enter their body but would this make them a conscious ghost or something else ?

any theories on this one ? 

99711[/snapback]

During an out of the body experience the spirit body is connected to the physical body by a silver cord. If the silver cord becomes broken, then the person cannot get back in his body and he is dead.

The death experience is as follows with some variations:

They can see themselves floating over the place where their body is, looking down at the body. They start to move rapidly through a dark tunnel. There is a bright light at the end of the tunnel, which is a loving person that some have called God. They might see relatives are people they knew that have died, and maybe angels. Sometimes the light will tell them that it is not their time, and they will be pulled back into their bodies by the silver cord. They will then wake up in their bodies and feel pain, and be alive again.

There are variations on this theme:

Several people have claimed they saw hell. One guy said he fell into a cave that was on fire. The ones that have had the bad experiences usually don't want to talk about it, so they are probably more common then reported.

Most of the experiences that are reported are by people that saw what appeared to be heaven. Some of them said they saw Jesus.

Now, to answer your question:

Debate about what a ghost is. Some say it is the environment recording an event and replaying it over and over again like a tape recorder. Emotional energy being trapped in a particular place and being replaid.

Some think ghosts are really demons pretending to be poeple, and deceiving people.

Some think ghosts are the actual people themselves reappearing.

I think the people may be allowed to appear for awhile, but they will need to move on eventually. The idea of emotional energy being stored in the environment and being replaid at some future time seems like it might be reasonable.

But, according to the Bible, the spirit moves on to either heaven or hell.

So there is a debate about what a ghost really is.

Also ufo aliens might be mistaken for ghosts, since some of the aliens look human.

A bible description of death talks about the silver cord:

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Sometimes people when they are asleep will float over their bodies in the bed, connected to their bodies by the silver cord. But if this cord breaks, they will die in bed and not wake up, unable to return to their bodies.