18 replies to this topic

[Yamato]

The Zionist Story, an independent film by Ronen Berelovich, is the story of ethnic cleansing, colonialism and apartheid to produce a demographically Jewish State.

From the author:

"I have recently finished an independent documentary, The Zionist Story, in which I aim to present not just the history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but also the core reason for it: the Zionist ideology, its goals (past and present) and its firm grip not only on Israeli society, but also, increasingly, on the perception of Middle East issues in Western democracies.   I hope you can find a moment to watch The Zionist Story and, if you like it, please feel free to share it with others. (As both the documentary and the archived footage used are for educational purposes only, the film can be freely distributed)."

- Ronen Berelovich.

[ZaraKitty]

I don't get it.

[and then]

Yamato, on 03 July 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

The Zionist Story, an independent film by Ronen Berelovich, is the story of ethnic cleansing, colonialism and apartheid to produce a demographically Jewish State.

From the author:

"I have recently finished an independent documentary, The Zionist Story, in which I aim to present not just the history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but also the core reason for it: the Zionist ideology, its goals (past and present) and its firm grip not only on Israeli society, but also, increasingly, on the perception of Middle East issues in Western democracies.   I hope you can find a moment to watch The Zionist Story and, if you like it, please feel free to share it with others. (As both the documentary and the archived footage used are for educational purposes only, the film can be freely distributed)."

- Ronen Berelovich.

The film is extremely one sided.  The story told from the POV of the Palestinian almost exclusively.  When there is no balance the piece is little more than propaganda.  Even at that it still tells the story of two peoples struggling for the same land and how they wound up where they are today. Skewed strongly towards Israel as oppressor while failing to acknowledge the crimes committed by the Palestinians.  In fact excusing their actions as justified.  It's the story of a war.   A war based on mutual hatred where depredations occur on both sides and will continue until one side or the other tires of the death or manages to win a final victory.  According to scripture the land belongs to God and He gave it to the Jews.  His choice.  You will see the Jews of Israel reign supreme over this land and much more of the surrounding region in the decade to come I believe.  For me the story is about faith.  I don't understand why things have been decided in this way but I trust that they have.  It's the perfect example of an intractable human conflict based on mutual hatred.  It is a study of how humans who do not deny their baser nature will never be able to find peace or happiness.  In this sense I believe these peoples are being used by God to teach us all a lesson.  For all the wrongs that the very human Israelis have committed it is also a given that if the Palestinians gain the upper hand they would slaughter to a man woman and child every Jew.  So who is worse?  I've made my choice and it has not much to do with loving a Jew more than an Arab.  It's all about seeing the WHOLE story and not just one angle or snapshot of reality.

Edited by and then, 03 July 2012 - 08:55 AM.

[Knight Of Shadows]

and then, on 03 July 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

The film is extremely one sided.  The story told from the POV of the Palestinian almost exclusively.  When there is no balance the piece is little more than propaganda.  Even at that it still tells the story of two peoples struggling for the same land and how they wound up where they are today. Skewed strongly towards Israel as oppressor while failing to acknowledge the crimes committed by the Palestinians.  In fact excusing their actions as justified.  It's the story of a war.   A war based on mutual hatred where depredations occur on both sides and will continue until one side or the other tires of the death or manages to win a final victory.  According to scripture the land belongs to God and He gave it to the Jews.  His choice.  You will see the Jews of Israel reign supreme over this land and much more of the surrounding region in the decade to come I believe.  For me the story is about faith.  I don't understand why things have been decided in this way but I trust that they have.  It's the perfect example of an intractable human conflict based on mutual hatred.  It is a study of how humans who do not deny their baser nature will never be able to find peace or happiness.  In this sense I believe these peoples are being used by God to teach us all a lesson.  For all the wrongs that the very human Israelis have committed it is also a given that if the Palestinians gain the upper hand they would slaughter to a man woman and child every Jew.  So who is worse?  I've made my choice and it has not much to do with loving a Jew more than an Arab.  It's all about seeing the WHOLE story and not just one angle or snapshot of reality.

based on what ? who said they'll slaughter women and children ?
we are not like them if they kill children and women and erase villages as whole
as part of ethnic cleansing we do not act the same way

we only fight those fight us and neither our religion nor our culture allow us to kill women or children even at war
can we say the same about them ? about israelis ? if so then how did they do it regardless ?
don't get me started about land given by god
so when muslims rule by islam they take the most brutal criticism Ever
but when jews kill and slaughter people and steal their land because their god " given " the land to them .. it's justified ?

[B Jenkins]

Excellent doc, I want to embrace the Palestinians peoples and tell them I am sorry.


@ roughly 38:00 - 44:00 minutes.

Imagine what a sight this is going to be to future visitors and tourists!

[B Jenkins]

and then, on 03 July 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

The film is extremely one sided.  The story told from the POV of the Palestinian almost exclusively.  When there is no balance the piece is little more than propaganda.  Even at that it still tells the story of two peoples struggling for the same land and how they wound up where they are today. Skewed strongly towards Israel as oppressor while failing to acknowledge the crimes committed by the Palestinians.  In fact excusing their actions as justified.  It's the story of a war.   A war based on mutual hatred where depredations occur on both sides and will continue until one side or the other tires of the death or manages to win a final victory.  According to scripture the land belongs to God and He gave it to the Jews.  His choice.  You will see the Jews of Israel reign supreme over this land and much more of the surrounding region in the decade to come I believe.  For me the story is about faith.  I don't understand why things have been decided in this way but I trust that they have.  It's the perfect example of an intractable human conflict based on mutual hatred.  It is a study of how humans who do not deny their baser nature will never be able to find peace or happiness.  In this sense I believe these peoples are being used by God to teach us all a lesson.  For all the wrongs that the very human Israelis have committed it is also a given that if the Palestinians gain the upper hand they would slaughter to a man woman and child every Jew.  So who is worse?  I've made my choice and it has not much to do with loving a Jew more than an Arab.  It's all about seeing the WHOLE story and not just one angle or snapshot of reality.

and then, on 03 July 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

The film is extremely one sided.  The story told from the POV of the Palestinian almost exclusively.  When there is no balance the piece is little more than propaganda.  Even at that it still tells the story of two peoples struggling for the same land and how they wound up where they are today. Skewed strongly towards Israel as oppressor while failing to acknowledge the crimes committed by the Palestinians.  In fact excusing their actions as justified.  It's the story of a war.   A war based on mutual hatred where depredations occur on both sides and will continue until one side or the other tires of the death or manages to win a final victory.  According to scripture the land belongs to God and He gave it to the Jews.  His choice.  You will see the Jews of Israel reign supreme over this land and much more of the surrounding region in the decade to come I believe.  For me the story is about faith.  I don't understand why things have been decided in this way but I trust that they have.  It's the perfect example of an intractable human conflict based on mutual hatred.  It is a study of how humans who do not deny their baser nature will never be able to find peace or happiness.  In this sense I believe these peoples are being used by God to teach us all a lesson.  For all the wrongs that the very human Israelis have committed it is also a given that if the Palestinians gain the upper hand they would slaughter to a man woman and child every Jew.  So who is worse?  I've made my choice and it has not much to do with loving a Jew more than an Arab.  It's all about seeing the WHOLE story and not just one angle or snapshot of reality.

But the Jews have demonstrated  over and over again a failure to uphold God's covenant especially its most humanitarian roots representing love, righteous, faith, and justice. What lessons is the nation of Israel teaching us today?????

[B Jenkins]

@ 1:13:00 minutes.

[and then]

dside, on 03 July 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

But the Jews have demonstrated  over and over again a failure to uphold God's covenant especially its most humanitarian roots representing love, righteous, faith, and justice. What lessons is the nation of Israel teaching us today?????

That they are fallible human beings who have the same faults as everyone else.  But who come from a background where survival is uppermost in their minds.  DS you needn't continue to try and prove to me how wrong I am in this matter.  It will never happen.  Let's just agree to disagree and remain civil.  I believe that you would stand idly while Jews are exterminated and you probably believe that I excuse every act perpetrated by the Jewish State - hopefully we are both incorrect in our assumptions.  As to the belief of mine that the Jews would be slaughtered...for God's sake man, can you not read something as simple s the Hamas Charter?  Or do you simply blow that off as political rhetoric despite the hundreds they've killed in the intifadas?  The argument is old and tiresome.  My problem with those who selectively bash the evils of Zionism is that they never acknowledge the evil that the Palestinian Arabs have done and continue to do.  I do believe in God's plan for the region as stated in the scripture.  If I am correct then you will see it played out year after year that the Jews will triumph through their adversities and their enemies will consistently lose.  If I am wrong then maybe the dreams of anti zionists like yourself will someday come true.  But just remember that if a regional war erupts due to Israel being pushed into a corner from which they cannot walk away - it will be a shared responsibility for those that advocated her demise.  That is the truth, no matter how you attempt to justify it.

[Charlie Prime]

Yamato, on 03 July 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

...the story of ethnic cleansing, colonialism and apartheid to produce a demographically Jewish State.

The really sick thing is that Zionism has done more to harm Jewish people in the last one hundred years than anything, yet it was actually perpetuated by the communists and corporatists.

Look how http://www.rothschild.com funded all three, communism, fascism, and zionism to set them up as Hegelian pawns.

Look how the trans-national corporations use Zionism today to keep the middle-east in a state of turmoil to aid installation of IMF compliant dictatorial governments.

Every preacher, news reporter, imam, and rabbi who take a "side" and blather about "zionism" are willfully ignorant fools who have never taken the time to study the financial history of the players.

[B Jenkins]

and then, on 03 July 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

That they are fallible human beings who have the same faults as everyone else.  But who come from a background where survival is uppermost in their minds.  DS you needn't continue to try and prove to me how wrong I am in this matter.  It will never happen.  Let's just agree to disagree and remain civil.  I believe that you would stand idly while Jews are exterminated and you probably believe that I excuse every act perpetrated by the Jewish State - hopefully we are both incorrect in our assumptions.  As to the belief of mine that the Jews would be slaughtered...for God's sake man, can you not read something as simple s the Hamas Charter?  Or do you simply blow that off as political rhetoric despite the hundreds they've killed in the intifadas?  The argument is old and tiresome.  My problem with those who selectively bash the evils of Zionism is that they never acknowledge the evil that the Palestinian Arabs have done and continue to do.  I do believe in God's plan for the region as stated in the scripture.  If I am correct then you will see it played out year after year that the Jews will triumph through their adversities and their enemies will consistently lose.  If I am wrong then maybe the dreams of anti zionists like yourself will someday come true.  But just remember that if a regional war erupts due to Israel being pushed into a corner from which they cannot walk away - it will be a shared responsibility for those that advocated her demise.  That is the truth, no matter how you attempt to justify it.

Palestine needs and should have its own state. Israeli occupation must cease.

Remember:

Deuteronomy 19:5-6 "Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; and you shall be to Me a KINGDOM OF PRIESTS and A HOLY NATION."

And again:

Deuteronomy 28:12 "The Lord will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens, to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your hand; and you shall LEND to many nations, but you shall NOT BORROW."

Israel has no moral highground over any nation on this whole Earth, they violate international humanitarian laws and commit war crimes regularly.

[Yamato]

dside, on 03 July 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

But the Jews have demonstrated  over and over again a failure to uphold God's covenant especially its most humanitarian roots representing love, righteous, faith, and justice. What lessons is the nation of Israel teaching us today?????

I think that you and I are defending the Jews and they don't even know it.   I won't say you're wrong to refer to the Jews in your statements, you're right but only by a matter of incidence.   The Zionist "allies" come in more than one flavor and some of the worst are anything but Jewish.   They're brainwashed to the point of saying we're wrong not to infuse Judaism with this nationalist mentality that turns their religion upside down.   Any ideology that seeks to destroy Judaism like this - incessantly encouraging Jews to act like their own worst enemies, this culling and prepping of Jews for the divine Armageddon - this looks like the Anti-Jewish Reincarnate to me, and the costume and lipstick didn't fool me for a moment.  

Conversely to the threat from non-Jewish Zionists, some of the strongest allies in the anti-Zionist movement are Jewish.   It's come down to a battle for hearts and minds; that's the only way we're going to put an end to this inhumanity without bloodshed or the successful ethnic cleansing of a people from the map.   Iran can't even have the intention of doing what Israel is doing right under our noses.

[and then]

dside, on 03 July 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Palestine needs and should have its own state. Israeli occupation must cease.

Remember:

Deuteronomy 19:5-6 "Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; and you shall be to Me a KINGDOM OF PRIESTS and A HOLY NATION."

And again:

Deuteronomy 28:12 "The Lord will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens, to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your hand; and you shall LEND to many nations, but you shall NOT BORROW."

Israel has no moral highground over any nation on this whole Earth, they violate international humanitarian laws and commit war crimes regularly.

I agree that they have no moral high ground.  I agree that any Israeli who acts or claims superiority in any way is misguided, wrong and arrogant.  The scriptures to which you attend were faithfully enforced by God these past nearly 2000 years.  There was a DIASPORA for all that time.  They wandered homeless and were abused in every nation they tried to settle in.  They paid a huge price for their disobedience - a far greater price than most humans for a similar sin - and they STILL retained the essential elements of their culture and history.  Even their language was resurrected when they came back into the land.  You steadfastly refuse to admit they would be destroyed from their land if they did what you and Yam propose.  Neither of you can be so dense as not to know it is a true statement I make.  But you ceaselessly pound the drum and hate on the evil "Zionists".  If they bowed to the UN then they would have been pushed into the sea 40 years ago.  But they survive because they have decided this is their last chance.  They fight like their lives are at stake and, oddly enough, they win every time they've truly tried.  Lebanon 2006 is an exception because Ohlmert was so concerned with world opinion that he failed to truly prosecute the war.  I think they will not make such a mistake under Netanyahu.  I'm not sure if you believe in the God of the Holy Bible but if you do you might reconsider your position since it is in opposition to His word.  Gen 12:3

[B Jenkins]

and then, on 03 July 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

I agree that they have no moral high ground.  I agree that any Israeli who acts or claims superiority in any way is misguided, wrong and arrogant.  The scriptures to which you attend were faithfully enforced by God these past nearly 2000 years.  There was a DIASPORA for all that time.  They wandered homeless and were abused in every nation they tried to settle in.  They paid a huge price for their disobedience - a far greater price than most humans for a similar sin - and they STILL retained the essential elements of their culture and history.  Even their language was resurrected when they came back into the land.  You steadfastly refuse to admit they would be destroyed from their land if they did what you and Yam propose.  Neither of you can be so dense as not to know it is a true statement I make.  But you ceaselessly pound the drum and hate on the evil "Zionists".  If they bowed to the UN then they would have been pushed into the sea 40 years ago.  But they survive because they have decided this is their last chance.  They fight like their lives are at stake and, oddly enough, they win every time they've truly tried.  Lebanon 2006 is an exception because Ohlmert was so concerned with world opinion that he failed to truly prosecute the war.  I think they will not make such a mistake under Netanyahu.  I'm not sure if you believe in the God of the Holy Bible but if you do you might reconsider your position since it is in opposition to His word.  Gen 12:3

Am I in opposition to His word? Let us see. As I have read it, the possession of the land is strictly conditional upon the obedience and circumcision of the heart of the nation of Israel.

Exodus 19:5-6, 8 "Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the Earth is Mine; and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. And all the people answered together and said, 'All that the Lord has spoken we will do!' And Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord."

To all that the Lord has spoken to the Israelites  they will do what? And what was it that the Lord spoke?

Exodus 24:3, 7 "Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered in one voice, and said, 'All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!' Then he took the book of the covenants and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, 'All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!'"

What will the Israelites do? Obedient to what?

Deuteronomy 4:24-28 "For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God. When you become the father of children and children's children and have remained long in the land, and act corruptly, and make an idol in the form of anything, and do that which is evil in the sight of the Lord your God so as to provoke Him to anger, I call heaven and Earth to witness against you today, that you shall utterly perish quickly from the land where you are going over the Jordan to possess it. You shall not live long on it, but shall be utterly destroyed. And the Lord will scatter you among the peoples, and shall be left few in number among the nations, where the Lord shall drive you. And there you will serve gods, the works of man's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell."

What reasons  will the Lord utterly destroy and scatter the Israelites among the nations?

Deuteronomy 5:28-29 "And the Lord heard the voice of your words when you spoke to me, and the Lord said to me, 'I have heard the voice of the words of this people which they have spoken to you, they have done well in all that they have spoken. Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them, and with their sons forever!"

What reasons did the Lord believe that the people spoke well and why?

Deuteronomy 6:1-8 "Now this is the commandment, the statutes and the judgments which the Lord your God has commanded me to teach, that you might do them in the land where you are going over to possess it, so that you and your son and your grandson might fear the Lord your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments, which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged. O Israel, you should listen and be careful to do it, that it may be well with you and that you may multiply greatly, just as the Lord, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey. Hear, O Israel, The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. And these words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart; and you shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. And you shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead."

Fear whom? Keep ALL of what and what... listening and carefully doing it... written on their hearts and taught diligently?

Deuteronomy 10:16 "Circumcise then your heart, and stiffen your neck no more."

Circumcise what?

Deuteronomy chapter 28

Conditional blesses and curses.

Deuteronomy 29:9-15 "So keep the words of this covenant to do them, that you may prosper in all that you do. You stand today, all of you, before the Lord your God: your chiefs, your tribes, your elders and your officers, even all the men of Israel, your little ones, your wives, and the alien who is within your camps, from the one who chops your wood to the one who draws your water, that you may enter into the covenant with the Lord your God, and into His oath which the Lord your God is making with you today, in order that He may establish you today as His people  and that He may be your God, just as He spoke to you and as He swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Now not with you alone am I making this covenant and this oath, but both with those who stand here with us today in the presence of the Lord our God and with those who are not with us here today."

Keep the words of what?

Deuteronomy 30:6 "Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, in order that you may live."

God promises to circumcise their hearts and the hearts of their descendants that they may live.

Joshua 23:13-16 "know with certainty that the Lord your God will not continue to drive these nations out from before you; but they shall be a snare and a trap to you, and a whip on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the Lord your God has given you. Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the Lord your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. And it shall come about that just as all the good words which the Lord your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the Lord will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God has given you. When you transgress the covenant of the Lord your God, which He commanded you, and go and serve other gods, and bow down to them, then the anger of the Lord will burn against you, and you shall perish quickly from off the good land which He has given you."

Do not transgress the covenant!

I Chronicles 15:15-18 "Remember His covenant forever, the word which He commanded to a thousand generations, the covenant that He made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac. He also confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel as an everlasting covenant. Saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan, as the portion of your inheritance."

VERY IMPORTANT: READ THE ABOVE IN CONTEXT WITH DEUTERONOMY 29:9-15 PREVIOUSLY LISTED, NOW READ YOUR GENESIS 12:3 WITH PROPER CONTEXT  

2 Chronicles 15:1-2 "Now the Spirit of God came on Azariah the son of Oded, and he went out to meet Asa and said to him, 'Listen to me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin: the Lord is with you when you are with Him. And if you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will forsake you."

Can I spell out conditional more plainly?

----------

The regathering of Israel is strictly conditional too. Please let the Holy Spirit open the deep profound truths of these following verses and bless you.

Deuteronomy 30:1-3, 9-10 "So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all the nations where the Lord your God has banished you, and you return to the Lord your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to to all that I command you today, you and your sons, then the Lord your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. Then the Lord you God will prosper you abundantly in all the work of your hand, in the offspring of your body and in the offspring of your cattle and in the produce of your ground, for the Lord will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers; if you obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and soul."

Jeremiah 31:31-37 "'Behold, days are coming,'" declares the Lord, 'when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,'" declares the Lord. 'But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,' declares the Lord, 'I will put My law within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall not teach again, each man  his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know Me, from the least of them  to the greatest of them,' declares the Lord, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more. Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for light by day, and fixed the order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; the Lord of hosts is His name: If this fixed order departs from before Me, declares the Lord, then shall the offspring of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever. Thus says the Lord, if the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the Earth searched out below, then I will cast also cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the Lord."

Ezekiel 36:24-33 "For I will take you from among the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. And you will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people and I will be your God. Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not bring a famine on you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, that you may not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Lord God, let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel! Thus says the Lord God, On that day I cleanse you from all your iniquities , I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places will be rebuilt."

Ezekiel 37:23, 26-29 "And they will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver  them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people and I will be their God. And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people. And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever."

Post-Babylonian Captivity Judah foreshadow the current conditions of the nation of Israel - SEE NEHEMIAH 13:18-31 & MALACHI 1:6, 2:1-17.

[and then]

dside, on 04 July 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

Am I in opposition to His word? Let us see. As I have read it, the possession of the land is strictly conditional upon the obedience and circumcision of the heart of the nation of Israel.

Exodus 19:5-6, 8 "Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the Earth is Mine; and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. And all the people answered together and said, 'All that the Lord has spoken we will do!' And Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord."

To all that the Lord has spoken to the Israelites  they will do what? And what was it that the Lord spoke?

Exodus 24:3, 7 "Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered in one voice, and said, 'All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!' Then he took the book of the covenants and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, 'All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!'"

What will the Israelites do? Obedient to what?

Deuteronomy 4:24-28 "For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God. When you become the father of children and children's children and have remained long in the land, and act corruptly, and make an idol in the form of anything, and do that which is evil in the sight of the Lord your God so as to provoke Him to anger, I call heaven and Earth to witness against you today, that you shall utterly perish quickly from the land where you are going over the Jordan to possess it. You shall not live long on it, but shall be utterly destroyed. And the Lord will scatter you among the peoples, and shall be left few in number among the nations, where the Lord shall drive you. And there you will serve gods, the works of man's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell."

What reasons  will the Lord utterly destroy and scatter the Israelites among the nations?

Deuteronomy 5:28-29 "And the Lord heard the voice of your words when you spoke to me, and the Lord said to me, 'I have heard the voice of the words of this people which they have spoken to you, they have done well in all that they have spoken. Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them, and with their sons forever!"

What reasons did the Lord believe that the people spoke well and why?

Deuteronomy 6:1-8 "Now this is the commandment, the statutes and the judgments which the Lord your God has commanded me to teach, that you might do them in the land where you are going over to possess it, so that you and your son and your grandson might fear the Lord your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments, which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged. O Israel, you should listen and be careful to do it, that it may be well with you and that you may multiply greatly, just as the Lord, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey. Hear, O Israel, The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. And these words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart; and you shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. And you shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead."

Fear whom? Keep ALL of what and what... listening and carefully doing it... written on their hearts and taught diligently?

Deuteronomy 10:16 "Circumcise then your heart, and stiffen your neck no more."

Circumcise what?

Deuteronomy chapter 28

Conditional blesses and curses.

Deuteronomy 29:9-15 "So keep the words of this covenant to do them, that you may prosper in all that you do. You stand today, all of you, before the Lord your God: your chiefs, your tribes, your elders and your officers, even all the men of Israel, your little ones, your wives, and the alien who is within your camps, from the one who chops your wood to the one who draws your water, that you may enter into the covenant with the Lord your God, and into His oath which the Lord your God is making with you today, in order that He may establish you today as His people  and that He may be your God, just as He spoke to you and as He swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Now not with you alone am I making this covenant and this oath, but both with those who stand here with us today in the presence of the Lord our God and with those who are not with us here today."

Keep the words of what?

Deuteronomy 30:6 "Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, in order that you may live."

God promises to circumcise their hearts and the hearts of their descendants that they may live.

Joshua 23:13-16 "know with certainty that the Lord your God will not continue to drive these nations out from before you; but they shall be a snare and a trap to you, and a whip on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the Lord your God has given you. Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the Lord your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. And it shall come about that just as all the good words which the Lord your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the Lord will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God has given you. When you transgress the covenant of the Lord your God, which He commanded you, and go and serve other gods, and bow down to them, then the anger of the Lord will burn against you, and you shall perish quickly from off the good land which He has given you."

Do not transgress the covenant!

I Chronicles 15:15-18 "Remember His covenant forever, the word which He commanded to a thousand generations, the covenant that He made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac. He also confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel as an everlasting covenant. Saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan, as the portion of your inheritance."

VERY IMPORTANT: READ THE ABOVE IN CONTEXT WITH DEUTERONOMY 29:9-15 PREVIOUSLY LISTED, NOW READ YOUR GENESIS 12:3 WITH PROPER CONTEXT  

2 Chronicles 15:1-2 "Now the Spirit of God came on Azariah the son of Oded, and he went out to meet Asa and said to him, 'Listen to me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin: the Lord is with you when you are with Him. And if you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will forsake you."

Can I spell out conditional more plainly?

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The regathering of Israel is strictly conditional too. Please let the Holy Spirit open the deep profound truths of these following verses and bless you.

Deuteronomy 30:1-3, 9-10 "So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all the nations where the Lord your God has banished you, and you return to the Lord your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to to all that I command you today, you and your sons, then the Lord your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. Then the Lord you God will prosper you abundantly in all the work of your hand, in the offspring of your body and in the offspring of your cattle and in the produce of your ground, for the Lord will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers; if you obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and soul."

Jeremiah 31:31-37 "'Behold, days are coming,'" declares the Lord, 'when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,'" declares the Lord. 'But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,' declares the Lord, 'I will put My law within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall not teach again, each man  his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know Me, from the least of them  to the greatest of them,' declares the Lord, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more. Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for light by day, and fixed the order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; the Lord of hosts is His name: If this fixed order departs from before Me, declares the Lord, then shall the offspring of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever. Thus says the Lord, if the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the Earth searched out below, then I will cast also cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the Lord."

Ezekiel 36:24-33 "For I will take you from among the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. And you will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people and I will be your God. Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not bring a famine on you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, that you may not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Lord God, let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel! Thus says the Lord God, On that day I cleanse you from all your iniquities , I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places will be rebuilt."

Ezekiel 37:23, 26-29 "And they will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver  them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people and I will be their God. And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people. And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever."

Post-Babylonian Captivity Judah foreshadow the current conditions of the nation of Israel - SEE NEHEMIAH 13:18-31 & MALACHI 1:6, 2:1-17.

So in your mind the Diaspora and the sufferings of TWO MILLENNIA  are insufficient punishment.  Thankfully God relents and calls them back to the land.  Pointless to argue such a point but as I said - watch and see - they will suffer horribly in time to come but they will NEVER  be uprooted again.  Have you ever wondered of yourself why you should want that so much?  I am making the assumption that you are an honorable person who is not full of hatred for Jews so why is it so important that they be cleansed from the land?  Are ALL Jews in Israel Zionists?  Does it matter to you that they feel so strongly about their land that they would literally take the world into a nuclear holocaust before they would be marched away again?  It amazes me that so many people somehow assume that the Israelis are not serious when they say NEVER AGAIN.  Every thing they've done for 60 years has been a preparation to fight off their enemies.  To say the least I'd say you have a skewed view of reality.

[Yamato]

and then, on 04 July 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

It amazes me that so many people somehow assume that the Israelis are not serious when they say NEVER AGAIN.

They're not nearly as serious about saying NEVER AGAIN because they think never only applies to themselves.  I'm serious enough about it to apply it to everyone.