23 replies to this topic

[ExpandMyMind]

Quote

Egyptian President Mohammed Mursi has ordered the retirement of the powerful head of the country's armed forces, Field Marshal Mohamad Hussein Tantawi, a presidential spokesman has said.
He also said a constitutional declaration aimed at curbing presidential powers had been cancelled.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...africa-19234763

Edited by ExpandMyMind, 12 August 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[questionmark]

Lets see how long he survives this one...

[and then]

If this move is not agreed upon in advance then Mursi might be in some trouble.  If it IS... I wonder what power sharing arrangement they came to?

[Knight Of Shadows]

he got the people on his side .. that will make him survive any overthrow by military corrupted leaders

[and then]

Knight Of Shadows, on 12 August 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

he got the people on his side .. that will make him survive any overthrow by military corrupted leaders

To one extent or another the military have been running Egypt for decades.  It's not easy to give up that kind of power.

[Knight Of Shadows]

that's why they weren't asked nicely to do so .. but were put to retirement
now mursi is giving a word live to his people .. and the crowds in Tahrir Square out for support of his decision
no longer any country that had revolution would be dictated by force of military

[meryt-tetisheri]

Knight Of Shadows, on 12 August 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

that's why they weren't asked nicely to do so .. but were put to retirement
now mursi is giving a word live to his people .. and the crowds in Tahrir Square out for support of his decision
no longer any country that had revolution would be dictated by force of military

The 'crowds' in Tahrir are members of the MB who are following the direct orders of the Murshid. Mursi's move was a pre-emptive bid to prevent the army from siding with anti MB demonstrations which were planned for 24 August. The revolution did not take place to replace Mubarak by a newer version either.

[Knight Of Shadows]

meryt-tetisheri, on 12 August 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

The 'crowds' in Tahrir are members of the MB who are following the direct orders of the Murshid. Mursi's move was a pre-emptive bid to prevent the army from siding with anti MB demonstrations which were planned for 24 August. The revolution did not take place to replace Mubarak by a newer version either.

perhaps it's just your religion is talking meryt not your love for egypt ?
and perhaps am wrong but from what i've seen from this man he done nothing wrong
based on his words of modesty and actions so far .. seems like a good figure to make egypt stand on it's feet
i understand your fear of the " MB scarecrow "

but it's not wise to let your .. opposition to a certain religion .. or person based on his religion
get in the way of what's good for your country
honestly .. mubarak supporters would say the exact thing you saying now

[Knight Of Shadows]

to the topic .. man am just sick to my throat of minorities prefering a dictator rule than to see person
belong to muslim party rules
that's just wrong .. every one knows MB is made to look bad
coz it won't keep the west interests in the area
in other words it won't keep us sheeps following the west orders

Edited by Karlis, 14 August 2012 - 04:59 AM.

[meryt-tetisheri]

Knight Of Shadows, on 12 August 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

perhaps it's just your religion is talking meryt not your love for egypt ?
and perhaps am wrong but from what i've seen from this man he done nothing wrong
based on his words of modesty and actions so far .. seems like a good figure to make egypt stand on it's feet
i understand your fear of the " MB scarecrow "

but it's not wise to let your .. opposition to a certain religion .. or person based on his religion
get in the way of what's good for your country
honestly .. mubarak supporters would say the exact thing you saying now

Your comment is outrageous! I am neither a bigot, nor do I not pre-judge people on the bases of their religious affiliation. This would be simplistic and an intellectually ‘flat’ position. Maybe you should follow closer the news of Egypt? There is mounting anger in Egypt against the inefficiency of the MB government, shortage of water, wide spread electricity outages, Mursi’s release of convicted terrorists, stifling free speech, attempts to control the media, judiciary, the police, and now the army. People expressed their anger clearly during the funeral of the army soldiers who were killed in Sinai. Stop projecting on Egypt, and on me, the problems Syria is facing. My love for Egypt is not open for discussion.

[Knight Of Shadows]

meryt-tetisheri, on 12 August 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Your comment is outrageous! I am neither a bigot, nor do I not pre-judge people on the bases of their religious affiliation. This would be simplistic and an intellectually ‘flat’ position. Maybe you should follow closer the news of Egypt? There is mounting anger in Egypt against the inefficiency of the MB government, shortage of water, wide spread electricity outages, Mursi’s release of convicted terrorists, stifling free speech, attempts to control the media, judiciary, the police, and now the army. People expressed their anger clearly during the funeral of the army soldiers who were killed in Sinai. Stop projecting on Egypt, and on me, the problems Syria is facing. My love for Egypt is not open for discussion.

your above statement
certinally sound like " children of mubarak " follower i knew his statement was exactly the same ..
you know the group that kept supporting mubarak even though all of egypt wanted him on the gallows ?

anyway it's also obvious it was former " baltajia " of mubarak who were under control of mubarak's wings " military leaders "
where behind sinai attacks to fail the new president
the shortage of water .. electricity .. don't you think that corrupted remainants of mubarak doing that ?

it's really obvious meryt .. all minorites always decide to side with dictatorship to gain  " special " treatment
rather then they see muslim ruler " or majority ruler " who would make it things equal to all
seriously the minorities are not acting really logical these days
what on earth make them think they deserve special treatment enough to make them side with dictators ?
many years of corruption which gave them special treatment is no excuse

now that being said i didn't and won't accuse you of anything .. or doubt your love for your country
i already said in my previous post " perhaps am wrong "
but no doubt what i posted above about minorties is facts
and it really makes me edgy

the guy has been president for what ? how long ? and faced so many challenges
the military he put to retirement have cut the authorites of the president !!! so they can remain in their corruption
and on the first challenge he becomes dictator ?!

if i didn't know any better i'd say minorities in egypt would wish mubarak never was brought down

[meryt-tetisheri]

Knight Of Shadows, on 12 August 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

your above statement
certinally sound like " children of mubarak " follower i knew his statement was exactly the same ..
you know the group that kept supporting mubarak even though all of egypt wanted him on the gallows ?

anyway it's also obvious it was former " baltajia " of mubarak who were under control of mubarak's wings " military leaders "
where behind sinai attacks to fail the new president
the shortage of water .. electricity .. don't you think that corrupted remainants of mubarak doing that ?

it's really obvious meryt .. all minorites always decide to side with dictatorship to gain  " special " treatment
rather then they see muslim ruler " or majority ruler " who would make it things equal to all
seriously the minorities are not acting really logical these days
what on earth make them think they deserve special treatment enough to make them side with dictators ?
many years of corruption which gave them special treatment is no excuse

now that being said i didn't and won't accuse you of anything .. or doubt your love for your country
i already said in my previous post " perhaps am wrong "
but no doubt what i posted above about minorties is facts
and it really makes me edgy

the guy has been president for what ? how long ? and faced so many challenges
the military he put to retirement have cut the authorites of the president !!! so they can remain in their corruption
and on the first challenge he becomes dictator ?!

if i didn't know any better i'd say minorities in egypt would wish mubarak never was brought down

Did it occur to you that if both the “son of Mubarak” and I mentioned the same list of ‘problems’ it is because they actually happened and are happening? Would ideological memes negate actual facts? The problem with prejudgments and jumping into conclusions is that while they might offer an easy and comforting compartmentalized world view, they also lead to a distorted view of reality.  Before insinuating that I am aligned to the ‘sons of Mubarak’, why don’t you check the posts I wrote on this forum during January and February 2011? I will not be put on the defensive, but sometimes reading before writing or casting doubts on people’s patriotism would make one’s opinions more credible.

As for the minorities issue to which you keep referring, members of minorities are citizens, entitled to equal rights and duties, including expression of political opinions and backing parties of their choice without being dubbed as treasonous, unless they commit criminal or treasonous acts. You seem to be confusing religious affiliation with citizenry, political dissent with ‘kufr’, and patriotism with blind obedience of religious leaders, the making of despotic theocracy!

I hope you take the time to read the linked article, MAHMOUD Salem is a Muslim, a political activist who was one of the leaders of 25 January revolution in Tahrir, at the time when the MB were still hesitating in their offices or negotiating with Omar Suleiman: a Muslim who is definitely not a ‘son of Mubarak’   

http://thedailynewsegypt.com/2012/08/07/entropy/

Finally, I am Egyptian, I am a Copt and proud of both and there is no contradiction here, if you cannot accept that but prefer to fall back on misconceptions, this is something you, not I, have to deal with.

Edited by meryt-tetisheri, 12 August 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[Knight Of Shadows]

meryt-tetisheri, on 12 August 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

Did it occur to you that if both the “son of Mubarak” and I mentioned the same list of ‘problems’ it is because they actually happened and are happening? Would ideological memes negate actual facts? The problem with prejudgments and jumping into conclusions is that while they might offer an easy and comforting compartmentalized world view, they also lead to a distorted view of reality.  Before insinuating that I am aligned to the ‘sons of Mubarak’, why don’t you check the posts I wrote on this forum during January and February 2011? I will not be put on the defensive, but sometimes reading before writing or casting doubts on people’s patriotism would make one’s opinions more credible.

As for the minorities issue to which you keep referring, members of minorities are citizens, entitled to equal rights and duties, including expression of political opinions and backing parties of their choice without being dubbed as treasonous, unless they commit criminal or treasonous acts. You seem to be confusing religious affiliation with citizenry, political dissent with ‘kufr’, and patriotism with blind obedience of religious leaders, the making of despotic theocracy!

I hope you take the time to read the linked article, MAHMOUD Salem is a Muslim, a political activist who was one of the leaders of 25 January revolution in Tahrir, at the time when the MB were still hesitating in their offices or negotiating with Omar Suleiman: a Muslim who is definitely not a ‘son of Mubarak’   

http://thedailynewsegypt.com/2012/08/07/entropy/

i tend to take the words of " sons of mubarak " true since they are so eager to defend a pervious dictator
so that should take alot of crediability from their statements

but no am not confusing religion affiliation with citizenry
you missed my point badly .
simply put " minorties does not like to be ruled by majorty and they tend to side with dictators "
or that's the way it is in middle east
all am saying it's realy time for minorties to stop worrying about muslims rule so much
and start working for the good of their country instead
i can't help to get the feeling they got used to corruption and the special treatment it gave them over the majority by dictators
and they got used to it they no longer want " equal rights with every one " they want more
or maybe it's just pure hatred to muslims ? i am in no position to tell since am not in egypt

you tell me not to rush or jump conclusions  .. aren't you jumping into conclusion meryt ? would you do the same if the leader was copt for example ?
don't take it the wrong way am not saying you will side with person just because of religion
but am saying minorites need to wake up from their " no no muslim leader "
you know " sons of mubarak " have many copts in them ?
you know the swear on facebook on islam and morsi ?

minorties are off their heads in middle east then need to deal with reality
and stop this muslim leader phobia they have
and for get the past days of glory they had with dictators rule
coz injustice like that would never happen again
everyone is equal .. no special treatment for anyone regardless of their religion
that's how it is now and that's how it should have been always

they should stop siding with dictators .. it's shameful

during morsi speech i was watching and saying how envy egypts to have this leader
a man with modesty who says " i have no rights but i have duties "
but looks like minorties want some one to say : i will opress people and give certain group more special treatment

sorry if my opinion is sound harsh or anything .. but it's just my opinion

plus i'll take reading on that link pretty soon

i read it .. and quite dissapointed of what you wanted with that article ..
a guy expressing his opinion hard can prove or state anything .. other than his opinion
ohh and am glad you're proud of you who you are .. i never said i got problem with that
i said like above . i got problem with minorites behavior in backing up the dictators
and prefer dictatorship over having muslim leader who " belonged " to islamic party
big shock ! country of 90% muslims have muslim leader !

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 12 August 2012 - 10:32 PM.

[meryt-tetisheri]

Knight Of Shadows, on 12 August 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

i tend to take the words of " sons of mubarak " true since they are so eager to defend a pervious dictator
so that should take alot of crediability from their statements

but no am not confusing religion affiliation with citizenry
you missed my point badly .
simply put " minorties does not like to be ruled by majorty and they tend to side with dictators "
or that's the way it is in middle east
all am saying it's realy time for minorties to stop worrying about muslims rule so much
and start working for the good of their country instead
i can't help to get the feeling they got used to corruption and the special treatment it gave them over the majority by dictators
and they got used to it they no longer want " equal rights with every one " they want more
or maybe it's just pure hatred to muslims ? i am in no position to tell since am not in egypt

you tell me not to rush or jump conclusions  .. aren't you jumping into conclusion meryt ? would you do the same if the leader was copt for example ?
don't take it the wrong way am not saying you will side with person just because of religion
but am saying minorites need to wake up from their " no no muslim leader "
you know " sons of mubarak " have many copts in them ?
you know the swear on facebook on islam and morsi ?

minorties are off their heads in middle east then need to deal with reality
and stop this muslim leader phobia they have
and for get the past days of glory they had with dictators rule
coz injustice like that would never happen again
everyone is equal .. no special treatment for anyone regardless of their religion
that's how it is now and that's how it should have been always

they should stop siding with dictators .. it's shameful

during morsi speech i was watching and saying how envy egypts to have this leader
a man with modesty who says " i have no rights but i have duties "
but looks like minorties want some one to say : i will opress people and give certain group more special treatment

sorry if my opinion is sound harsh or anything .. but it's just my opinion

plus i'll take reading on that link pretty soon

Again you are generalizing! Many Copts voted for Hamdeen Sabbahy; all of the presidential nominees are Muslims. The MB is 80 years old, weren't there Muslims in Egypt before? Is Islam a monopoly of the MB to the exclusion of non-members? Aren't there Muslims in countries where the MB doesn't exist? Would you call Muslims who disagree or are opposed to the MB not Muslim/kufar? Since when is disagreeing with the MB an anti-Islam stance? Personally, I believe Egypt missed a huge chance when Baradei withdrew. Worrying about the concentration of all powers in the hands of one person - no matter whom this person is - and a closed secretive clique of men who have vowed obedience to an unelected individual is legitimate and crosses faith borders. When the president promises freedom & free speech but confiscates newspapers & his followers physically assault journalists; when he promises a government of national unity but chooses an inefficient prime minister to head a cabinet that excludes other parties;  when security fails to the extent that doctors go on strike because the ER are continuously attacked by thugs and the police doesn't intervene, when electricity & water fails for 8 hours/day particularly in poor areas, yes that makes ALL Egyptians worry! As for minorities, when churches are demolished, houses burned, families evicted as collective punishment, and it occurs repeatedly while the president remains silent, yes, they too tend to worry; & not because they want a special treatment, unless one considers equal rights in courts of law "special treatment".
Any further discussion is futile; you still continue to project Syria's problems on Egypt!

[Knight Of Shadows]

meryt-tetisheri, on 12 August 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Again you are generalizing! Many Copts voted for Hamdeen Sabbahy; all of the presidential nominees are Muslims. The MB is 80 years old, weren't there Muslims in Egypt before? Is Islam a monopoly of the MB to the exclusion of non-members? Aren't there Muslims in countries where the MB doesn't exist? Would you call Muslims who disagree or are opposed to the MB not Muslim/kufar? Since when is disagreeing with the MB an anti-Islam stance? Personally, I believe Egypt missed a huge chance when Baradei withdrew. Worrying about the concentration of all powers in the hands of one person - no matter whom this person is - and a closed secretive clique of men who have vowed obedience to an unelected individual is legitimate and crosses faith borders. When the president promises freedom & free speech but confiscates newspapers & his followers physically assault journalists; when he promises a government of national unity but chooses an inefficient prime minister to head a cabinet that excludes other parties;  when security fails to the extent that doctors go on strike because the ER are continuously attacked by thugs and the police doesn't intervene, when electricity & water fails for 8 hours/day particularly in poor areas, yes that makes ALL Egyptians worry! As for minorities, when churches are demolished, houses burned, families evicted as collective punishment, and it occurs repeatedly while the president remains silent, yes, they too tend to worry; & not because they want a special treatment, unless one considers equal rights in courts of law "special treatment".
Any further discussion is futile; you still continue to project Syria's problems on Egypt!

to answer your question no not any one who disagree with MB is kufar
actually am not sure that i am big fan of them eaither but non-muslim minorties make them like " scarecrow "
ohh bad MB .. bad muslims they'll force us to hear hjiab they'll force sharia law etc etc etc
what am saying that people need to get realstic

and the problem with power / water etc etc those mention ... am sure non-muslims minorties won't see any problem with the country
has it been ruled by dictator killing muslims by dozen but short of power or water on them .. now that's devastiting
all those things won't be problem for minortiy of the president wasn't from MB  right ?
if he wasn't with MB and those things happend i bet we'll see minorties just go out on support march for him
just like they remain silence everywhere else when the president such as mubarak was dictating the majortiy

can we remember why Baradei withdrew from elections ?
yeah it was because the military councel of mubarak remainants ran the show
the same people of morsi has put to retirement no ?

am not generalizing meryt it's the true and am not mixing up syria with egypt
it's just all minorties in our middle east got used to special treatment provided by dictators
everywhere not just syria or egypt the minorties always support dictators and wish for it's rule
sons of mubarak as i state before mainly copts
that tells us something about it doesnt it ?

my problem is .. i critcize and oppose muslims minorities when they do something wrong in western countries
such as asking for special treatments , sharia laws .. so on and so on the idea is
i don't let my religion i share with them get in the way of saying what's right .. and what's wrong

but non-muslims minorties in middle east were corrupted by dictators and that's a shame
they always lived together peacefully but comes the first chance for them to show their stand
and up with the dictators they side

you know the bad things you mention that happend to christians no one would like
but did it happen coz of Muslims ? or MB ? or Morsi ?

you forgot that it was muslims who protected christians when druze tried to massacare them ?
but up comes the first dictator they'd rather see all muslims killed than to be equal with  rest of society
and can i blame them ? after much of the special treatment they got during dictator rule ?

my suggetion is minorites should leave their " islamic " scarecrow aside .. whatever the party was MB or not
this mentality is not going to lead to anything good . except steering up religious hatred among the two
swearing at islam and president that people in egypt elected just because he is muslim from MB
does not make copts look good also it'll only make sensetivitiy among them and muslims

these are facts am saying not some local gossips or anything to do with syria
we certinally don't have sons of mubarak group which happens to be mostly copts who does that

all in all i understand your position i just wish minorities in middle east would change this mentality
and start thinking of how they can live in peace without dreams of another dictator to come
and gives them again special treatment while they watch majorties being opressed

morsi was elected and won regardless of how many attempts there was to manipulate the elections to favor shafiq " mubarak solider "
to say these people went to street based on MB request is far fetched .. sorry

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 12 August 2012 - 11:56 PM.