saint seiya Posted January 23, 2005 #1 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Ok heres the thing I read in a post on this forum about how God never helps someone who is in trouble or being tempted by the devil. But should he? OK lets look at some examples A person is about to kill himself, or kill others. He does it, and every body is saying where was God to stop this. But did'nt God gave us free will. I mean we live by our own rules. TRust me if God interfered with our lives everybody will be complaining that we can't control our lives. But what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_hAiLO_ Posted January 23, 2005 #2 Share Posted January 23, 2005 I don't think God controls our free will, but surrounding events that would lead our life. But suicide, is your free will. Someone elses death caused naturally/invader, is what I would think Gods will, but suicide is taking advantage of your free will to control your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint seiya Posted January 23, 2005 Author #3 Share Posted January 23, 2005 yes my point is that you don't have to blame anybody for your actions except yourself. I mean you can't expect that God should help you all your life, you have to do it yourself but God in a way can guide you. But is up to you to to listen or go your way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted January 23, 2005 #4 Share Posted January 23, 2005 yes my point is that you don't have to blame anybody for your actions except yourself. I mean you can't expect that God should help you all your life, you have to do it yourself but God in a way can guide you. But is up to you to to listen or go your way 461556[/snapback] I agree with that. Your statement is very mature. What I mean by that is that some people go through life blaming everyone else for their "problems" and you feel that, in most cases, we are ourselves responsible for what we do. Nice. A very healthy attitude. That attitude promotes mental, emotional and spiritual growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint seiya Posted January 23, 2005 Author #5 Share Posted January 23, 2005 thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted January 23, 2005 #6 Share Posted January 23, 2005 yes my point is that you don't have to blame anybody for your actions except yourself. Realllllly now? If god exists and knows everything and created us, then he created us to act a certain way and do a certain thing (like killing others or killing yourself)... its like a computer program following the programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint seiya Posted January 23, 2005 Author #7 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Yeah but you can change that. IF God knows what you are going to do that does'nt mean you have to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted January 23, 2005 #8 Share Posted January 23, 2005 yes my point is that you don't have to blame anybody for your actions except yourself. Realllllly now? If god exists and knows everything and created us, then he created us to act a certain way and do a certain thing (like killing others or killing yourself)... its like a computer program following the programming. 461589[/snapback] With all due respect, I think God is more sophisticated than reducing His creation to the likes of computer programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted January 23, 2005 #9 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Yeah but you can change that. IF God knows what you are going to do that does'nt mean you have to do it No, but hypothetically, god made us, he made every single part of us, thus, he made the way we act and respond to another creation: The world around us. He created us to act a certain way, and he knew how it is that we'd act since he is all knowing also... therefor, if someone is a madman, its because god made it that way. With all due respect, I think God is more sophisticated than reducing His creation to the likes of computer programs. Its a comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novo Posted January 23, 2005 #10 Share Posted January 23, 2005 I dont really intend to be very active in this thread, but I would like you all to ponder this-What if you were born poor, homeless and without a father. What if every day of your life was a challenge. Now what if as a result of these actions the individual lost faith in God? Not any given God, but lets assume christianity. Now where does your excuse go for god teaching lessons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazer2004 Posted January 23, 2005 #11 Share Posted January 23, 2005 you cant blame god for everything that happens to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firien Posted January 24, 2005 #12 Share Posted January 24, 2005 no, we can blame blazer!!!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverCougar Posted January 24, 2005 #13 Share Posted January 24, 2005 you cant blame god for everything that happens to you 461710[/snapback] I blame the government. ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potholer Posted January 24, 2005 #14 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Yeah but you can change that. IF God knows what you are going to do that does'nt mean you have to do it No, but hypothetically, god made us, he made every single part of us, thus, he made the way we act and respond to another creation: The world around us. He created us to act a certain way, and he knew how it is that we'd act since he is all knowing also... therefor, if someone is a madman, its because god made it that way. With all due respect, I think God is more sophisticated than reducing His creation to the likes of computer programs. Its a comparison. 461668[/snapback] Yes, but God also made free will so that we have a choice. God created the choices, we get to pick. This is almost getting into predestination and psychology...Say you control your life with free-will and you are in a certain situation with a 3 options. Due to your upbringing, morals, beliefs, virtues...etc you are only ever going to choose a certain option. The other options are there but because of the way you are you'd never choose it. I'm not sure if this makes sense. It's a debate in psychology whether we actually have control over our lives or we don't due to who we are. I don't know if that makes sense... Anyway, personally I don't think we give ourselves enough credit. My friend goes to church and they recently got a new building. She invited me along and one of the prayers was thanking God for making this new building possible, how it would not have been built without him and ALL the credit of organising it, designing it, building it, ironing out all the kinks and small problems that arose goes to Him and only Him. My family isn't religious (in fact my Mum is scarily anti-Christianity) but my Dad has always said to me "God helps those who help themselves." We wouldn't get anywhere if we sat around waiting for God to do things for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted January 24, 2005 #15 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Yes, but God also made free will so that we have a choice. God created the choices, we get to pick. But if god created us, he knew exactly how we'd act. He, thus, made us to act a certain way. He knew that the current "version" of humans that he was thinking about creating would act a certain way (because of how he made us) in the world he created (since he knows everything)... he then went on to "compiling" us and created us... we're just following how he made us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandore Posted January 24, 2005 #16 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Yes, but God also made free will so that we have a choice. God created the choices, we get to pick. But if god created us, he knew exactly how we'd act. He, thus, made us to act a certain way. He knew that the current "version" of humans that he was thinking about creating would act a certain way (because of how he made us) in the world he created (since he knows everything)... he then went on to "compiling" us and created us... we're just following how he made us. 462000[/snapback] If he made us,the world, and knew we would act a certain way why did he give us a choice? Why does he make us make a choice? If he knows everything then why did he have to ask Adam and Eve where they were at in the Garden after they ate from the tree of knowledge? If he knew every thing then he would have known where to find them. He would have known his other sons was going to take the daughters of man for wives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unorthodox Thesis Posted January 24, 2005 #17 Share Posted January 24, 2005 A person is about to kill himself, or kill others. He does it, and every body is saying where was God to stop this. But did'nt God gave us free will. I mean we live by our own rules. TRust me if God interfered with our lives everybody will be complaining that we can't control our lives. God never forces us to do good. We must choose the good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandore Posted January 24, 2005 #18 Share Posted January 24, 2005 (edited) A person is about to kill himself, or kill others. He does it, and every body is saying where was God to stop this. But did'nt God gave us free will. I mean we live by our own rules. TRust me if God interfered with our lives everybody will be complaining that we can't control our lives. God never forces us to do good. We must choose the good. 462271[/snapback] But if he knows all, Wouldn't he know what we would do? Edited January 24, 2005 by zandore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athenian Posted January 24, 2005 #19 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Yes, God has granted free will so we may converse diplomacy instead of liquidating each other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unorthodox Thesis Posted January 24, 2005 #20 Share Posted January 24, 2005 You know, maybe God does't know all. As long as you find a scripture in the Bible that tells me that He knows the future, then go ahead. Tell me. On the other hand, He could know the future and do nothing about it. Why? Because the earth is not His world yet. Remember, Satan took over this planet ever since the fall of man. God may send angels to help us out occasionally, but He may not be able to interfere with everything we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandore Posted January 24, 2005 #21 Share Posted January 24, 2005 It sounds like he is not to omnipotent then to me. No disrespect intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athenian Posted January 24, 2005 #22 Share Posted January 24, 2005 It sounds like he is not to omnipotent then to me. No disrespect intended. 462292[/snapback] The creator knows humanity too well to keep messing around with us, interfering with us, and warning us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbeyondthedark Posted January 24, 2005 #23 Share Posted January 24, 2005 People always wonder about this and that... But do we ever wonder why we ask ourselves questions we can never answer? I'll tell you why, cause its fun. But we also ask these questions because man is a creature of fleeting faith. If we can't fully understand it, we wont put true faith in it. Yes man was given free will... But it also says in the bible that all things were pre-ordained by God. So what does that mean? Do we not have free will? No, because I know I have a choice. Then that must mean God did not pre-plan everything... Wrong again! People can never accept something they cant fathom. We mentally cannot understand why things are the way they are, or how they are the way they are. For someone to say that God couldn't have made us with free will and pre-ordained all things, that would be saying there is a limit to Gods power and to that there is no limit. The things we believe to be impossible, or things we even KNOW to be impossible are possible to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted January 24, 2005 #24 Share Posted January 24, 2005 If he made us,the world, and knew we would act a certain way why did he give us a choice? My point is: He didnt. The choice exists, but we cant take the choice. He made the choice for us when he made us, because he made us to act a certain way and respond to the environment around us and such, and he made the environment also. We're just doing what he made us to do. If he knew every thing then he would have known where to find them. Exactly. That seems a bit contradictory to the "all knowing god" idea. But if he knows all, Wouldn't he know what we would do? He'd also know how we would act if he created us the way he had planned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted January 24, 2005 #25 Share Posted January 24, 2005 You know, maybe God does't know all. As long as you find a scripture in the Bible that tells me that He knows the future, then go ahead. Tell me. On the other hand, He could know the future and do nothing about it. Why? Because the earth is not His world yet. Remember, Satan took over this planet ever since the fall of man. God may send angels to help us out occasionally, but He may not be able to interfere with everything we do. 462286[/snapback] I know that this is a common belief. I want to say this with the utmost respect to those that believe that, but it doesn't make any sense to me at all. God created everything. He created the angels. The angels decided to Unionize. This ticks off god, so he sends the angels that torqued him off away. where does go send the angels? to the same place where he created the being in his likeness that he has perfect love for(Love Agape), and cares for more than anyone can comprehend. Why? Why would he give satan the right to manage earth? It just makes no sense to me. If god was so upset at the 1/3 of the angels that rebelled, why not send them to the other side of the galaxy? why not snap your fingers and have them cease to exist? If you were walking down the road and approached by a mugger, would you wrestle him down and send him home to babysit your kids? Regardless of how much your kids may not do what you say; you still love them(even with imperfect human love that we experience, nothing compared to the supposed perfect love of god) and would not want to bring them harm. It just makes no sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now