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The Ancient Alien Theory Is True


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#316    synchronomy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:51 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 28 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

In the final analysis, both sides are speculating, and for those who doubt we have been visited before, they are unable to offer any sort of plausible explanation for the points the AA folks present.

How could stone surfaces be machined to tolerances we can barely meet today, when humans were still hunter gatherers?

How could the Mayan calendar be more accurate than our atomic clocks today?

How is it that the value of Pi could be annotated on cave walls many thousands of years before mathematicians existed?
AA is speculating.  The opponents are presenting facts and have shown AA either lies or misrepresents facts.

Mayans were a well structured society and were not a bunch of disconnected hunter-gatherers and yes they could carve stones to fit.  "Machined to tolerances" is an AA term applied to descriptions of masonary techniques, which misrepresents the accuracy involved.

The Mayan calender is nowhere near as close to atomic clocks of today.

Show up a picture of this cave representation of PI and for the record, a "mathematician" can be used to describe a child counting to 10.

Did you read all of this thread and visit the links provided?

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#317    psyche101

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

View Postme-wonders, on 28 November 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

The subject is interesting, but the insulting manner of some replies ruins the thread.

May I ask if you have read this thread from the beginning?


You get what you give.


What I find insulting is the assault on logic, facts and historical record.

Edited by psyche101, 28 November 2012 - 10:22 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#318    badeskov

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:48 PM

View Postme-wonders, on 28 November 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

The subject is interesting, but the insulting manner of some replies ruins the thread.

Excuse me, but what exactly is insulting in this thread besides the obvious willful ignorance by ..?

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#319    psyche101

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:08 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 28 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

In the final analysis, both sides are speculating, and for those who doubt we have been visited before, they are unable to offer any sort of plausible explanation for the points the AA folks present.

I beg your pardon? To my knowledge, that is completely untrue.

View PostBabe Ruth, on 28 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

How could stone surfaces be machined to tolerances we can barely meet today, when humans were still hunter gatherers?

You mean this workmanship?


Posted Image




I admit, not bad, but beyond human? Really? Did you by chance miss the post Boon left?


Quote



AA: “Pumapunku is the only site on planet Earth that, in my opinion, was built directly by extraterrestrials.”
Ancient Aliens starts off with a false dilemma by making people think that it was absolutely impossible for ancient people to construct Pumapunku, even to the point of making outright false claims.
AA: “One of the most intriguing thing there is it that the stones that were used there weren’t sandstone, they’re granite and diorite. The only stone that is harder than diorite is diamond, so the only way this could have been achieved is if the tools were tipped with diamonds.”
This is funny because it’s totally wrong, the stones are not granite or diorite at Pumapunku, they are Red Sandstone and Andesite[1][2][3], but this is also funny because of the way he says it.
AA: “The stones that were used there weren’t sandstone, they’re granite and diorite.”
Well yeah, actually it is sandstone. You can’t blame him though for it becomes obvious that throughout the series he often just repeats things he has heard in Eric Von Daniken’s books. Von Daniken’s books are what the Ancient Aliens series is based on. Later we see Eric Von Daniken himself make the exact same, totally wrong claim.
AA: “Of course [Pumapunku was] made out of stones found on Earth, because you don’t transport granite or diorite from another solar system.”
Von Daniken continues building up this false dilemma:
AA: “One of these platforms is 800 tons.”
That is very incorrect, the heaviest block at Pumapunku is 130 tons[4], and most of the stones are much smaller than that. So he is off by a whopping 670 tons! Unfortunately we will come to expect this kind of thing from Von Daniken as we progress.
Ancient Aliens spends quite a lot of time pointing out the various features in the stone masonry at Pumapunku before declaring it impossible to do without power tools.
AA: “Each of these small drills holes are basically evenly spaced along this routed groove. To me it’s clear that power tools have been used on this unusual block of stone here.”
AA: “This surface is as smooth as a table top, like in your kitchen. There’s no wave to it. This was machined.”
The sandstone and andesite stones at Pumapunku would have been easily worked with the most basic stone working tools[5][6], the idea that diamond tipped power saws were needed is ridiculous. The red sandstone was relatively soft and easy to work with, and even though andesite is pretty hard, because of the way it cooled it could be easily flaked off using stones as soft as 5.5 on the Mohs scale.[7] Such pounding stones were found all over andesite quarries in the area.[8]
Contrary to Ancient Aliens’ claims that archeologists are baffled by Pumapunku, Archeologists know the basics about how Pumapunku’s stones were cut and shaped.[9][10] This is partly because there is evidence for this all over the site itself.
They actually used a method that almost all ancient stone workers used. They used hard -pounding stones to pound out troth like depressions; later on they used flat stones and sand to grind the stone to make a polished surface.[11] We will see later on that this is also how the Egyptians, 1000’s of years before this, made their flat surfaced granite monuments like obelisks.[12]
Sand, as we will see later when we look at Egypt, has extremely hard particles in it and, if placed between a flat surface and a rock, can polish even the hardest stones known to man. In fact, the harder the stone is the better it can be polished using sand.[13]
We will also see that how sand can turn a piece of copper into a very efficient granite saw or granite drill – a method which the Egyptians utilized quite well.[14]
Some stones at Pumapunku that Ancient Aliens would never show the cameras are the ones that were in the middle of this process. They show that at the same time a stone was being pounded by stone hammers, which created these troth like depressions, the grinding and polishing was taking place on the other end of the stone.[15] Unfinished stones like this one clearly show how they were shaped – and it wasn’t with lasers.
There is also unmistakable evidence of stone hammers having been used in the places that were never meant to be visible, like where certain stones would be connected with one another.[16] And because of that, it’s hard for me to believe Eric Von Daniken’s next claim, because it would mean that the alien tool box had a laser gun right next to a stone hammer.


AA: “How these massive blocks of granite were moved from their quarries and brought here to Pumapunku would have required some kind of super technology. Levitation; anti-gravity, huge lifting vehicles…something that ancient aliens would have had.”
If they did know how to levitate these stones then they put far too much effort in creating places in the stones to attach ropes to.
Many stones have grooves several centimeters in width and depth on two adjacent faces for holding ropes.[31] They even had special places cut into the stones that Pumapunku scholars call “hoisting grips.”[32] These are all very strange things to do if they could simply levitate these blocks.
To make matters worse for the Ancient Astronaut theory, according to archeologist Jean-Pierre Protzen, an expert on Pumapunku, there is almost no stone at the Pumapunku site that does not have what he calls “drag marks” on one of its faces[33], where it has been…well dragged to the site.
Ancient Aliens throws another false dilemma here:
AA: “What nobody talks about is the irrefutable fact that we are at an altitude of 12,800 feet which means we are above the natural tree line. No trees ever grew in that area, meaning that no trees were cut down in order to use wooden rollers. The wooden roller theory falls by the wayside.”
This is like saying that there is no way that the Egyptians used wood because trees didn’t grow in Egypt. The difference is that while the Egyptians had to import wood from places like Lebanon, it would have been far easier for those at Pumapunku to solve this problem for all they would have had to do is walk down the hill a little bit.




LINK

this stature is made from Dorite.

Posted Image


Very good material to carve fine detail as you can see. There is much "poetic license" used with ancient aliens. Have you seen the Puma Punku Elephant?

Posted Image


I mean seriously.........



This is an insult to the accomplishments of man. Historically, man has shown himself to be innovative and clever. Did you know the Romans had power tools? - LINK



View PostBabe Ruth, on 28 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

How could the Mayan calendar be more accurate than our atomic clocks today?

Honestly I have no idea where you are getting this from. Can you provide supporting information that proves this claim. It sounds like outright BS to be frank.

View PostBabe Ruth, on 28 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

How is it that the value of Pi could be annotated on cave walls many thousands of years before mathematicians existed?


Could you be more specific, I take it this is not related to Puma Punku?


Thousands of years? You do know that Archimedes officially recorded Pi in like 300BC? Thats before Puma Punku. And by quite a bit at any qualified estimate. Again, from Boony's link:


Quote

Ancient Aliens says that Pumapunku is 17,000 years old!
This is what Vranich said of this claim:
“The idea that Tiwanaku is 14,000 years old is based on a rather faulty study done in 1926. Since then, there has been a huge quantity of work both on the archaeology and geology of the area, and all data indicates that Tiwanaku existed from around A.D. 300-500.”[36]
For more information on the faulty study he is referring to here I will quote at length from Jason Colavito, who has been debunking ancient astronaut theories for years in his books and blogs. He said the following about this claim.
“Tiwanaku is not 17,000 years old. This date derives from the work of Arthur Posnansky, who tried to apply archaeoastronomy to the site but did so in ways that modern scholars do not recognize as legitimate. Posnansky proposed a date of 15,000 B.P. (before present, i.e. 13,000 BCE), which the geniuses on Ancient Aliens misread as 15,000 BCE, adding an extra 2,000 years to Posnansky’s already flawed dates.
Here’s what he did wrong. Posnansky assumed that the Kalasasaya temple at Tiwanaku was laid out with perfect accuracy to align to the equinoxes and solstices that he felt (but could not prove) were important to the Tiwanaku people.
Thus, on a certain day the sun was supposed to rise above one rock at the temple and set behind another – ah, but which rock should we choose? Since the current ruins do not align with these celestial events accurately, he concluded that the ruins must have been built at a time when they would have alignedwith that event.
Since the sun and sky change positions at a predictable rate due to gradual changes in the angle of the earth’s axis, he concluded that Kalasasaya was built in 13,000 BCE as a solar observatory, despite no other evidence of solar astronomy at the site.
The long and short of it is that Posnansky assumed celestial alignments and assumed flawless construction and then used his assumptions to “prove” that his assumptions were correct.



Honestly, there should be a tin foil hat award for AA episodes like this.

Edited by psyche101, 28 November 2012 - 11:15 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#320    booNyzarC

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:23 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 28 November 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Honestly I have no idea where you are getting this from. Can you provide supporting information that proves this claim. It sounds like outright BS to be frank.

If you ever decide to follow the 911 threads you'll quickly discover that BS is BR's specialty.


#321    DONTEATUS

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:38 AM

:alien: :clap: I like the Tin Foil hat award Idea !

Attached Files


This is a Work in Progress!

#322    psyche101

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:34 AM

View Postmcrom901, on 28 November 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

Posted Image


I reckon I have worked out where he is going with that hair.


Posted Image

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#323    psyche101

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:36 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 29 November 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

If you ever decide to follow the 911 threads you'll quickly discover that BS is BR's specialty.


I'll be interested to see his responses to the above. I hope he is interested in rational discussion.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#324    booNyzarC

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:42 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 29 November 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

I'll be interested to see his responses to the above. I hope he is interested in rational discussion.

I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you.


Posted Image


This wasn't inspired by rational discussion...


#325    psyche101

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:01 AM

Too funny Boon

Now I have all this Coke to clean of my screen....................

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#326    mcrom901

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:20 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 29 November 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

I reckon I have worked out where he is going with that hair.


Posted Image

he's getting there....

Posted Image
:P


#327    Quaentum

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

View Postmcrom901, on 29 November 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

he's getting there....

Posted Image
:P

I think it's more likely that his Polyjuice Potion is wearing off.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#328    Babe Ruth

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:07 PM

View Postsynchronomy, on 28 November 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

AA is speculating.  The opponents are presenting facts and have shown AA either lies or misrepresents facts.

Mayans were a well structured society and were not a bunch of disconnected hunter-gatherers and yes they could carve stones to fit.  "Machined to tolerances" is an AA term applied to descriptions of masonary techniques, which misrepresents the accuracy involved.

The Mayan calender is nowhere near as close to atomic clocks of today.

Show up a picture of this cave representation of PI and for the record, a "mathematician" can be used to describe a child counting to 10.

Did you read all of this thread and visit the links provided?

No, I have not read ALL of this thread, but a fair amount.  No, I have not visited ALL the links, but some.

I specified in my first sentence in the previous post that both sides were speculating.

Sure a mathematician might be 10 years old, but that point is about as relevant and persuasive as the rest of your post, which is to say "not very".

The AA folks raise many many issues that certain self-described skeptics cannot explain.  I forget the name of the ancient map that Graham Hancock mentioned in one of his books, but how is it that the map depicted geography that we have discovered only recently?  How is it that at a time when most humans thought the world was flat, someone had already set up a very accurate system of latitude and longitude?

We humans are vain, arrogant, and way more ignorant than most will admit.


#329    zoser

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

How did they achieve the inlaid right angles?  How did they achieve the perfectly circular holes?  Look how close this one is to the vertical face of the block

Posted Image


To produce this with power tools would be difficult enough.

Posted Image

And again:

Posted Image

The accuracy is astonishing.

Posted Image

This workmanship is not easy to explain as the work of indiginous indians.  I don't buy it.

As an ex-engineer I know what it would take to produce this with modern technology.  God only knows how it was done.  On this scale and in that terrain so high above sea level.

Until a rational explanation is found, the AA hypothesis will stand.  The ancients gave testimony to it for a start.

Posted Image


#330    mcrom901

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:28 PM

View Postzoser, on 29 November 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

How did they achieve the inlaid right angles?  How did they achieve the perfectly circular holes?

Posted Image