25 replies to this topic

[AquilaChrysaetos]

Edited by AquilaChrysaetos, 10 February 2013 - 01:45 AM.

[SpiritWriter]

I didn't watch the videos yet but I love the title of your thread...

[notforgotten]

I saw the first video.

I believe Jesus would be against this idea because it causes affliction between christian and church and Jesus is most definitely against afflictions. Also, I do not believe that there is any hatred is Jesus's heart at all.

Edited by notforgotten, 10 February 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[markdohle]

Some good things said, but religion, something to hold beliefs together is needed.  The New Testament was put together into the canon by the church...

peace
Mark

[AquilaChrysaetos]

notforgotten, on 10 February 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

I saw the first video.

I believe Jesus would be against this idea because it causes affliction between christian and church and Jesus is most definitely against afflictions. Also, I do not believe that there is any hatred is Jesus's heart at all.

I understand your concerns. That's one of the reasons why I believe he didn't completely trash the Jewish religion and just say "Screw your religion, follow me!" Instead he said "Follow your scriptures and laws, just follow me first." (I'm currently working on a thread on this topic specifically, just long and takes time)

Just keep in mind, Jesus did preach against many of the teachers of the law at the time, as well as many of their traditions. Jesus was a much more radical guy, otherwise he wouldn't have been crucified by his very own church might I add, meaning the Jews. Yes, he believed in fellowship among believers, but let me ask you this: Does fellowship mean ritualistic traditions and legalistic rules? I personally don't think so.

I believe you can essentially sum up the totality of Christ's message with these three simple rules:

• Believe and follow Jesus Christ
  
• Love God
  
• Love others as you love yourself

That's pretty much it. And I think that's essentially the same message being expressed in these two videos.

[B Jenkins]

AquilaChrysaetos, on 11 February 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

I understand your concerns. That's one of the reasons why I believe he didn't completely trash the Jewish religion and just say "Screw your religion, follow me!" Instead he said "Follow your scriptures and laws, just follow me first." (I'm currently working on a thread on this topic specifically, just long and takes time)

Just keep in mind, Jesus did preach against many of the teachers of the law at the time, as well as many of their traditions. Jesus was a much more radical guy, otherwise he wouldn't have been crucified by his very own church might I add, meaning the Jews. Yes, he believed in fellowship among believers, but let me ask you this: Does fellowship mean ritualistic traditions and legalistic rules? I personally don't think so.

I believe you can essentially sum up the totality of Christ's message with these three simple rules:

• Believe and follow Jesus Christ
  
• Love God
  
• Love others as you love yourself

That's pretty much it. And I think that's essentially the same message being expressed in these two videos.

One another message Jesus was about the religion of his time and day, it was adulterated and became rigidly legalistic.

Basically, they added to the law of God.

They turned a relationship between themselves and God into all sorts of hypocrisy, legalism, and tradition.

This legalism and tradition actually was more important to them than a genuine relationship with God and their fellow human being.

Instead of building a PERSONAL relationship with God with a pure mind and pure conscience, they forsook the most important element of the law itself ... that is love God and love your fellow human being as yourself would desire to be loved. Instead they stalked around condemning people for not washing their hands before meals and condemned people for not giving their money to their churches despite the fact these people had families that needed that money more. This legalism and traditions darkened their hearts and corrupted their minds with hypocrisy. Any holiness they possessed was ONLY for public show. It wasnt genuine from the heart as the real purpose was ONLY to appear holy ... but they lacked any true love for God and for their fellow man.

Edited by B Jenkins, 11 February 2013 - 04:06 AM.

[HavocWing]

B Jenkins, on 11 February 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

One another message Jesus was about the religion of his time and day, it was adulterated and became rigidly legalistic.

Basically, they added to the law of God.

They turned a relationship between themselves and God into all sorts of hypocrisy, legalism, and tradition.

This legalism and tradition actually was more important to them than a genuine relationship with God and their fellow human being.

Instead of building a PERSONAL relationship with God with a pure mind and pure conscience, they forsook the most important element of the law itself ... that is love God and love your fellow human being as yourself would desire to be loved. Instead they stalked around condemning people for not washing their hands before meals and condemned people for not giving their money to their churches despite the fact these people had families that needed that money more. This legalism and traditions darkened their hearts and corrupted their minds with hypocrisy. Any holiness they possessed was ONLY for public show. It wasnt genuine from the heart as the real purpose was ONLY to appear holy ... but they lacked any true love for God and for their fellow man.

And they changed?

[sutemi]

“There is no going back. You can’t sit anymore in churches listening to stodgy liturgies. They put you to sleep. Most of these churches are museums with floor shows. They are caricatures of what Jesus intended. Jesus would be turning over money changing tables in their vestibules. Those in church maybe good hearted and even well meaning, but they are ignoring the urgent, beckoning call to engage with the world.” Bishop George Packard.

The trouble with religion is that it becomes fixed in ancient concepts and ideals, how many were victimised for daring to challenge ancient ideals like Galileo, how many Catholic Protestant wars, how many Shia and Sunni have killed one another, this done in the name of their God!  The world has changed and religion should change also. It should be built on the ‘experience’ of Love felt within the heart, then no rules/laws are needed. With Love as the foundation all decisions are compassionate and then the Natural experience of Love/Peace is set free to respond to what is needed in the changing modern world. Where are the like of – Jesus - John the Baptist - James the Just, standing up and demanding care for the poor, sick and the ending of war, without regard for their physical safety, prepared to die fighting the greedy selfish values of the Rich and the Politicians?

“The world is ready for a revolution, a discovery of the God in each of us.” George Harrison

Edited by sutemi, 11 February 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[IamsSon]

I agree that Jesus would not be very happy with the various sects and denominations that have sprung up in His name.  One only has to read the Gospels to see that Jesus heavily chastised religious people; people who had lost sight of God and instead had firmly focused on law, ritual, and tradition.

But one also has to remember that it was Jesus who asked Peter to "feed" and "care for" His sheep to understand that Jesus expected His followers to congregate.  The fact that, because we are human we end up creating organizations that eventually become more focused on maintaining itself than on doing the work Christ calls us to, is not a valid excuse not to be part of a congregation, nor is it a valid reason to revile any attempt at congregating.

[Beckys_Mom]

I don't think Jesus ( if he exists ) would like the idea of people building a religion around his name, and to a point where it becomes a mess and has so many splinter groups within it..

[J. K.]

Beckys_Mom, on 12 February 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

I don't think Jesus ( if he exists ) would like the idea of people building a religion around his name, and to a point where it becomes a mess and has so many splinter groups within it..

Agreed.  If you read His teachings, you'll find He was big on love and unity.

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.  By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.  John 13:34-35

[Beckys_Mom]

J. K., on 12 February 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Agreed.  If you read His teachings, you'll find He was big on love and unity.

Trust me, I have indeed read his teachings, this is how i cam to the conclusion he would not have wanted a entire religion in his name that has more splits in it than a Hollywood marriage..   Yet ironically, man went on ahead and build a religion in his name..More followed ..  The funny part is, there are people out there who will agree, Jesus would not have wanted a religion in his name  ( with splinter groups of Christians who cannot agree ) yet dare you say a word against it?  ..  If Jesus came down to earth, and he told the Christians that they had it wrong, there was no need for a religion..what's the bet a good few would remind Jesus of the old days, and sneer at him saying he must be an evil spirit? because it is not what they would want to hear.

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 12 February 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[95-Nasty]

Jesus Hates Religion!!! Im sure hes does! After all religion has become 'mans' main reason for war! Sorry for the big txt, must have hit the wrong button

[J. K.]

Beckys_Mom, on 12 February 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Trust me, I have indeed read his teachings, this is how i cam to the conclusion he would not have wanted a entire religion in his name that has more splits in it than a Hollywood marriage..   Yet ironically, man went on ahead and build a religion in his name..More followed ..  The funny part is, there are people out there who will agree, Jesus would not have wanted a religion in his name  ( with splinter groups of Christians who cannot agree ) yet dare you say a word against it?  ..  If Jesus came down to earth, and he told the Christians that they had it wrong, there was no need for a religion..what's the bet a good few would remind Jesus of the old days, and sneer at him saying he must be an evil spirit? because it is not what they would want to hear.

I will admit that I don't understand the hang-up people have about the word 'religion'.  To me, a religion is a belief system, a set of Biblically-based facts about a method for communicating with God.  It's the way that denominations and movements have 'added' to the Gospel that bothers me, such as the Southern Baptists' emphasis of evangelism over discipleship, or the charismatics' emphasis on the Holy Spirit.  When the method receives more attention than the Savior, that's where I see the error.

[B Jenkins]

Beckys_Mom, on 12 February 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

I don't think Jesus ( if he exists ) would like the idea of people building a religion around his name, and to a point where it becomes a mess and has so many splinter groups within it..

What about when Jesus called Peter the Rock and charged him to care for his flock?