Abortion a lesson ?

[mfrmboy]

Many people believe we are here to learn lifes lessons and say the things we go through are meant to teach us. Many of these people are against abortion (pro Life).

Maybe these aborted baby's were never meant to be and were only created to be some lesson the mother needed to go through.

Some want to outlaw abortion even in extreme cases but isn't that creating a bigger problem and perhaps altering the lesson that the mother, father or whoever was to learn ?

[Simbi Laveau]

Many people believe we are here to learn lifes lessons and say the things we go through are meant to teach us. Many of these people are against abortion (pro Life).

Maybe these aborted baby's were never meant to be and were only created to be some lesson the mother needed to go through.

Some want to outlaw abortion even in extreme cases but isn't that creating a bigger problem and perhaps altering the lesson that the mother, father or whoever was to learn ?

There is some truth in this. Many babies are not meant to be ,either as a karmic lesson to someone,or in some cases ,a curse of some kind .

I have been told of the latter,but I'm not sure of how it works. It may be karmic as well .

As for abortions being lessons ,I think some are ,but then some people have no conscience ,so its just a means to an end.

Many people regret abortion,or giving a baby up for adoption,for their entire lives ,so yes,that is a hard lesson .

[Hasina]

No, just no. Thinking that the destruction of life in any sense is a lesson just sounds horrible, and thinking there's this karmic reason behind it just lifts the whole 'is it wrong or right thing' and tosses it out the window. It's the destruction of a human life, not an easy choice, but when you place it on the same table as 'well, you stubbed your toe cause you pulled that chicks pigtails' it just sounds nasty and cold hearted.

[LEGIONS]

If one has ever been an unwanted child it makes one feel like the walking dead

[Tarnibritan]

Hmm well i was faced with this decision this year. And If the things we go through are meant to teach us something, well doesnt that all depend on whether we choose to learn from our experiances or not... But abortion is entirely up to a person- If the fetus wasnt meant to be then it wouldnt of happened in the first place surely. In the end its whether the mother feels like she can or cant go through with it-its free will not fate that determines these choices. Hope my rant makes sense

[meryt-tetisheri]

Losing a baby, even an unborn fetus, is a devastating experience for a mother. It can not, and should not be equated with a 'lesson in life'.

edited: typos!

Edited October 15, 2012 by meryt-tetisheri

[mfrmboy]

Thank you for your replies. Maybe it is not a lesson for the mother, father etc. but for the infant. These life lessons are supposed to help us develope and grow spiritually life after life depending on your belief.

[Beckys_Mom]

Maybe these aborted baby's were never meant to be and were only created to be some lesson the mother needed to go through.

That is insane !!! .......... Have you any idea what a mother who looses their baby goes through? ............ Do you know what it is like to get brought into hospital.. and give birth to a dead child? To lay there in fear and have to be pinned down by nurses while you panic...knowing you cannot feed and hold the baby you have just delivered? .You cry and yell out please god give her back to me...take me instead !!!!....Have you got the faintest clue what you just suggested? .... Have you got any clue what many fathers out there have to go through ?

You find it so easy to sit on your backside and claim it is a lesson in life.. I think you need a lesson in life.. A lesson in listening and learning more about what people who goes through these things feel .. Try talking to mothers who have suffered these tragic losses .. Get your eyes opened.. and... What lesson would an infant need? For what reason? That does not make any sense... It is pointless

No mother should ever have to go through it.. and no infant should either. .but that's life... We take it and it's not nice but we grasp at anything to try and move on..

Edited October 15, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[Bling]

Thank you for your replies. Maybe it is not a lesson for the mother, father etc. but for the infant. These life lessons are supposed to help us develope and grow spiritually life after life depending on your belief.

What lesson does a dead infant learn from this?

[Bendy Demon]

This whole "karma" thing really needs to die.

Does anyone really think about how silly it really is to postulate that any problems you have in life, any defects you may have been born with are all because of something you supposedly did in a previous life? To make matters worse no one even remembers this so-called "crime" either.

I even read somewhere where child abuse was rationalized with the same mindset....who learns anything from aborting their infant? The infant sure won't for obvious reasons and I doubt the parents walk away with anything except that they did what they felt they needed to do..end of story.

Whatever function abortion serves, it certainly hasn't been to teach anyone anything.

[markdohle]

Abortion is here because we have societies that are inhumane and cruel...also men who will not take responsibility for their seed. Of course this is not for every case of abortion. There are no simple answers to this question but I think the approach you are presenting to us is a way for people to lessen the taking of a life. It is always wrong to abort, but the woman is often alone, with family and friends encouraging them to abort. I have dealt with women who have had abortions and for many it is a life long sorrow, especially when the day of birth draws near. It is heart breaking to see this and I only have compassion for those who go though this, even though I believe it is wrong. From conception to death at extreme old age, it is one continuum; to terminate at anytime is wrong. The fetus has rights, in the future I believe many will look back on our time and be shocked at how we look at this issue. Yet we are people of our time, I have made peace with it. Laws will not change it, only a bottom up change in how people deal with each other will help with this issue. Don’t see that happening.

Edited October 15, 2012 by markdohle

[Jello]

I've been to Africa and there are some tribes who cry and mourn when a baby is born because they know that the child will live a poor life and experience pain. When the person dies, they rejoice because that person's soul is free from the pain and hardships.

[regeneratia]

No, just no. Thinking that the destruction of life in any sense is a lesson just sounds horrible, and thinking there's this karmic reason behind it just lifts the whole 'is it wrong or right thing' and tosses it out the window. It's the destruction of a human life, not an easy choice, but when you place it on the same table as 'well, you stubbed your toe cause you pulled that chicks pigtails' it just sounds nasty and cold hearted.

I have always found that wisedom is recognizing that there really is no right or wrong. There are only different sequela of consequences. Wisedom is where the two opposites meet.

When I met a psychic in Rosslyn chapel once, following a heart-breaking, soul-numbing stillbirth, she said that the soul of my child simply changed her mind. Of course, oh man, was THAT a life lesson. Why would an abortion be any different?

My abortion was one of the most empowering days of my life. While I named that pregnancy, and studied it's gestation process, felt affection for my changing body, it was not in MY life plan at the time. It was the day I woke up and realized that this is MY life, and that I am no longer an appendage of my parents. I learned from that day, massively in an entire kaleidescope of lessons. I totally agree with mfrmboy, that it is a substantial lesson in life. I have learned to love and let go early on in my life. Suffereing comes from loving and holding on to that love for fear you will lose it.

It is said that the soul merely visits on occasion during a pregnancy, and sometimes doesn't attach to the body even months after birth. I believe that there is indeed a communication between the pregnant and the visiting soul.

Abortion is a viable option. Abortion is a responsible option. Abortion is a reasonable decision.

Abortion should be medically-safe and legal to anyone for whatever reason they personally deem appropriate.

Edited October 15, 2012 by regeneratia

[Artaxerxes]

Abortion is just another way for the soul to learn and experience separation, something it can't learn in heaven due to those overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness. Pro and Anti abortion causes us to experience duality and separation.

There is only one consciousness by the way.

excerpt from Michelle M's NDE description:

"I remember understanding the others here.. as if the others here were a part of me too. As if all of it was just a vast expression of me. But it wasn't just me, it was .. gosh this is so hard to explain.. it was as if we were all the same. As if consciousness were like a huge being. The easiest way to explain it would be like all things are all different parts of the same body."

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/michelle_m's_nde.htm

We here in the physical universe can't begin to comprehend or understand the feelings of oneness and connectedness in Heaven. It has to do with the physics of holographic film. Each piece contains the whole and everything is interconnected with everything else. Our Universe is the holographic projection and the place we call Heaven is the original Holographic film it is projected from.

[regeneratia]

No sorrow here. Only personal empowerment.

Shakespeare says that there is no right or wrong: only THINKING makes it so.

Abortion is here because we have societies that are inhumane and cruel...also men who will not take responsibility for their seed. Of course this is not for every case of abortion. There are no simple answers to this question but I think the approach you are presenting to us is a way for people to lessen the taking of a life. It is always wrong to abort, but the woman is often alone, with family and friends encouraging them to abort. I have dealt with women who have had abortions and for many it is a life long sorrow, especially when the day of birth draws near. It is heart breaking to see this and I only have compassion for those who go though this, even though I believe it is wrong. From conception to death at extreme old age, it is one continuum; to terminate at anytime is wrong. The fetus has rights, in the future I believe many will look back on our time and be shocked at how we look at this issue. Yet we are people of our time, I have made peace with it. Laws will not change it, only a bottom up change in how people deal with each other will help with this issue. Don’t see that happening.

[regeneratia]

No infant has ever been aborted.

"The term infant is typically applied to young children between the ages of 1 month and 12 months; however, definitions may vary between birth and 3 years of age. A newborn is an infant who is only hours, days, or up to a few weeks old. In medical contexts, newborn or neonate (from Latin, neonatus, newborn) refers to an infant in the first 28 days after birth;^[1] the term applies to premature infants, postmature infants, and full term infants. Before birth, the term fetus is used."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant

This whole "karma" thing really needs to die.

Does anyone really think about how silly it really is to postulate that any problems you have in life, any defects you may have been born with are all because of something you supposedly did in a previous life? To make matters worse no one even remembers this so-called "crime" either.

I even read somewhere where child abuse was rationalized with the same mindset....who learns anything from aborting their infant? The infant sure won't for obvious reasons and I doubt the parents walk away with anything except that they did what they felt they needed to do..end of story.

Whatever function abortion serves, it certainly hasn't been to teach anyone anything.

[regeneratia]

I have, and my sentiments are far differnt than yours.

I have had one abortion, one stillbirth and one live birth. I KNOW the sorrow of losing a wanted child. I KNOW the factors in making a decision to have an abortion. I believe it is all a matter of personal perspective.

I learned a huge amount from my abortion. I learned a huge amount from having a stillbirth. And I am still learning, with far larger amounts, what it is to have a child to raise, to feed and clothe, to school (public schools are the worst part of motherhood!!), to watch as they beomce their own person and pull away from the deep affection that you can and want to give them, to pull away to learn to stand on their own two feet.

That is insane !!! .......... Have you any idea what a mother who looses their baby goes through? ............ Do you know what it is like to get brought into hospital.. and give birth to a dead child? To lay there in fear and have to be pinned down by nurses while you panic...knowing you cannot feed and hold the baby you have just delivered? .You cry and yell out please god give her back to me...take me instead !!!!....Have you got the faintest clue what you just suggested? .... Have you got any clue what many fathers out there have to go through ?

You find it so easy to sit on your backside and claim it is a lesson in life.. I think you need a lesson in life.. A lesson in listening and learning more about what people who goes through these things feel .. Try talking to mothers who have suffered these tragic losses .. Get your eyes opened.. and... What lesson would an infant need? For what reason? That does not make any sense... It is pointless

No mother should ever have to go through it.. and no infant should either. .but that's life... We take it and it's not nice but we grasp at anything to try and move on..

Edited October 15, 2012 by regeneratia

[markdohle]

No sorrow here. Only personal empowerment.

Shakespeare says that there is no right or wrong: only THINKING makes it so.

I am no ones judge my friend....just speaking my mind.

Peace

mark

[regeneratia]

I am no ones judge my friend....just speaking my mind.

Peace

mark

I know, friend. Not worried. You?

[notoverrated]

my dad wore protection and my mom was on the pill, lesson or not NOTHING was going to stop me O.o

[Hasina]

I have always found that wisedom is recognizing that there really is no right or wrong. There are only different sequela of consequences. Wisedom is where the two opposites meet.

When I met a psychic in Rosslyn chapel once, following a heart-breaking, soul-numbing stillbirth, she said that the soul of my child simply changed her mind. Of course, oh man, was THAT a life lesson. Why would an abortion be any different?

My abortion was one of the most empowering days of my life. While I named that pregnancy, and studied it's gestation process, felt affection for my changing body, it was not in MY life plan at the time. It was the day I woke up and realized that this is MY life, and that I am no longer an appendage of my parents. I learned from that day, massively in an entire kaleidescope of lessons. I totally agree with mfrmboy, that it is a substantial lesson in life. I have learned to love and let go early on in my life. Suffereing comes from loving and holding on to that love for fear you will lose it.

It is said that the soul merely visits on occasion during a pregnancy, and sometimes doesn't attach to the body even months after birth. I believe that there is indeed a communication between the pregnant and the visiting soul.

Abortion is a viable option. Abortion is a responsible option. Abortion is a reasonable decision.

Abortion should be medically-safe and legal to anyone for whatever reason they personally deem appropriate.

I have nothing against abortions. I've argued for it on the site. Personally though, the only time I would get one is if I were raped.

I dislike this notion that souls only show up on occasion during pregnancy or there are karmic reasons for why that baby will never come to be, or the soul chose' not to be born. A baby can't choose that shizz, your body may have rejected the pregnancy, it happens and there's nothing wrong with that, it's natural.

Yes, it is your body and your life, but it's that babies body and life you get to make descisions for, and you decided that it's not a viable human being, so gone it goes, cause it didn't fit into your life plan.

Thinking a 'soul' doesn't take during pregnancy is a nice and pretty excuse to have an abortion, but it's a silly fairy tale of a reason. A woman is having a human baby, who will grow up and have the possibility of having hopes and dreams. Inane excuses like 'oh the baby wouldn't fit into my life' isn't reasonable, it's selfish.

I dislike to agree with the Republicans but I do think abortion should only be for when you've been raped, a result of incest or it's a danger to the mother's life. A baby is not some tattoo you can regret later and get rid or an unsightly mole you just want gone. It's a human life.

As a Libertarian though, I know people are just going to have sex whenever they want, not use safe sex or when that fails decided against owning up to the idiocy of what they've done. So yes abortion should be available for whatever reason, but don't pretty it up with excuses like 'the souls not there' or 'there's a karmic reason', be an adult, you're getting rid of a human.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Hasina

[Beany]

Hmm well i was faced with this decision this year. And If the things we go through are meant to teach us something, well doesnt that all depend on whether we choose to learn from our experiances or not... But abortion is entirely up to a person- If the fetus wasnt meant to be then it wouldnt of happened in the first place surely. In the end its whether the mother feels like she can or cant go through with it-its free will not fate that determines these choices. Hope my rant makes sense

That wasn't a rant, it sounds entirely sane. It would be wonderful if the dialogue were more about ways to prevent unwanted pregnancies than about abortion, but that's entirely too sane, as well.

[Orcseeker]

I know of some young women who could be considered promiscuous and disrespectful of themselves. They seem quite humbled whether they keep the baby or abort it. One who had an abortion said she couldnt do it again and was obviously quite upset by the experience. It certainly changes them for the better though I'd say. Having a baby is a lesson to everyone, aborted or not.

[regeneratia]

Obviously you are not reading the same books I am. Many here believe your (hypotethical) spirit, maybe your soul, is totally independent of your body, that comes and goes at will. IOW, the real you is not locked into the body but may fly free at any time for any reason.

Just remember the concept: "These things I do, you can do and more."

I think this is the thing that irks me most about the anti-choice movement, which I recognize you are not a part of: they do NOT at all address matters of the soul, or matters of the spirit. They are just so hung up on the biological, but can't seem to address the spiritual or soulful. They don't touch the topic of your own gloriously body-transient spark of the source with a ten-foot pole.

I have nothing against abortions. I've argued for it on the site. Personally though, the only time I would get one is if I were raped.

I dislike this notion that souls only show up on occasion during pregnancy or there are karmic reasons for why that baby will never come to be, or the soul chose' not to be born. A baby can't choose that shizz, your body may have rejected the pregnancy, it happens and there's nothing wrong with that, it's natural.

Yes, it is your body and your life, but it's that babies body and life you get to make descisions for, and you decided that it's not a viable human being, so gone it goes, cause it didn't fit into your life plan.

Thinking a 'soul' doesn't take during pregnancy is a nice and pretty excuse to have an abortion, but it's a silly fairy tale of a reason. A woman is having a human baby, who will grow up and have the possibility of having hopes and dreams. Inane excuses like 'oh the baby wouldn't fit into my life' isn't reasonable, it's selfish.

I dislike to agree with the Republicans but I do think abortion should only be for when you've been raped, a result of incest or it's a danger to the mother's life. A baby is not some tattoo you can regret later and get rid or an unsightly mole you just want gone. It's a human life.

As a Libertarian though, I know people are just going to have sex whenever they want, not use safe sex or when that fails decided against owning up to the idiocy of what they've done. So yes abortion should be available for whatever reason, but don't pretty it up with excuses like 'the souls not there' or 'there's a karmic reason', be an adult, you're getting rid of a human.

Edited October 16, 2012 by regeneratia

[Hasina]

Obviously you are not reading the same books I am. Many here believe your spirit, maybe your soul, is totally independent of your body, that comes and goes at will. IOW, the real you is not locked into the body but may fly free at any time for any reason.

Just remember the concept: "These things I do, you can do and more."

Well, if a book's enough to convince you to do such things, good on ya.