211 replies to this topic

[Wolfman 1993]

personally, I dont find Bigfoot all that improbable. sightings have been made every where through out the country, and not even just ours. I dont see Bigfoot as some mythical being that walks through dimensions, more, I see it as a breed of North American gorilla. we know gorillas exist, and it definitely possesses the qualities, so it couldnt be all that hard to believe.

[evancj]

Wolfman1993, on 13 January 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

personally, I dont find Bigfoot all that improbable. sightings have been made every where through out the country, and not even just ours. I dont see Bigfoot as some mythical being that walks through dimensions, more, I see it as a breed of North American gorilla. we know gorillas exist, and it definitely possesses the qualities, so it couldnt be all that hard to believe.

With the main differences being;

The regions in Africa where gorillas are KNOWN to exist are far more remote and difficult to get to than anywhere in North America, and covered with dense tropical forests that are far more dangerous (for many reasons) than any place in North America.

Yet we have thousands of clear photos, and videos of gorillas. People and dogs can track, find, kill and capture them on a regular basis. We find the remains of their dead, and the impact they have on their environment. And we have hundreds of gorillas in zoos around the world.

Sooooo...if bigfoot is nothing more than the North American version of an African gorilla then why can't we get one good photo of single specimen, or capture, kill, or ever find a dead one?

Edited by evancj, 13 January 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[B Jenkins]

keninsc, on 13 January 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

http://www.backpacke...facts/gear/1224

There's what "Backpacker" magazine thought about it.

Personally, if you're not able to properly use/employ a firearm then my causal guess would be that you'll not be able to use pepper spray properly. I could be wrong and I hope I am.

Here is what that articles says:

Quote

Yes it works, But...

"This Stuff Isn't Brains In A Can"

The big question, the one you don't want to answer while face to fang with a grizzly, is: Does bear spray really work? The answer is a qualified "yes," according to Stephen Herrero, Ph.D., author of Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance and professor of environmental science, University of Calgary, Alberta.

Dr. Herrero, a noted researcher of bear behavior and attacks, along with Andrew Higgins, a university colleague, examined 66 field cases in which various brands of spray were used on black and grizzly bears that displayed behavior ranging from overly curious to actively aggressive toward humans. They concluded that, "while we don't know how these encounters would have ended in the absence of spray, the use...appears to have prevented injury in most cases," Dr. Herrero says.

Dr. Herrero, other bear experts, and even spray manufacturers agree on one important point, however. Bear spray is a last resort after all other appropriate precautions--storing food in bearproof containers, keeping a clean camp, making lots of noise while hiking, steering clear of areas with fresh bear scat or digs--have failed and you suddenly find yourself confronted by an aggressive or persistent bruin. Says Dr. Herrero, quoting a fellow grizzly researcher, "This stuff isn't brains in a can."

The best solution is take every care and precaution against a bear attack by carrying a whistle, etc. with proper preparedness as to not startle a bear or attract a bear.

Some people will stick to their guns pardon the pun and other will put their faith in the bear spray, there are brands that can spray between 25-40 feet. And this article stated do not choose a brand that shoots a stream but rather a cloud. An idiot can use bear spray but it is standing your ground during a charge that is utmost important.

Personally, I have read somewhere a 45 ACP is best suited for animals between 200-300 lbs. Well a grizzly for instance is 2-3Xs heavier. One may be undergunned with a 45 ACP against bears. One may empty a 7 round clip into a bear especially the larger species and it may still survive or maul (potentially kill) the individual before it expires.

And just because one person drops an individual representing a species of bear with one shot from particular caliber of gun doesn't mean it will always drop that bear with one shot either.

[Sakari]

Ambush Bug, on 13 January 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Here is what that articles says:

[i]

The best solution is take every care and precaution against a bear attack by carrying a whistle, etc. with proper preparedness as to not startle a bear or attract a bear.

Some people will stick to their guns pardon the pun and other will put their faith in the bear spray, there are brands that can spray between 25-40 feet. And this article stated do not choose a brand that shoots a stream but rather a cloud. An idiot can use bear spray but it is standing your ground during a charge that is utmost important.

Personally, I have read somewhere a 45 ACP is best suited for animals between 200-300 lbs. Well a grizzly for instance is 2-3Xs heavier. One may be undergunned with a 45 ACP against bears. One may empty a 7 round clip into a bear especially the larger species and it may still survive or maul (potentially kill) the individual before it expires.

And just because one person drops an individual representing a species of bear with one shot from particular caliber of gun doesn't mean it will always drop that bear with one shot either.

Good article :

In this section we discuss the use of handguns as a means of defense in the wild. In North America this would include animals like bears, mountain lions, wolves and in many cases smaller animals infected with diseases like rabies which pose a threat.
Some of these predators in the North West, Canada and Alaska can be quite large. The large bears of this region have been known to reach 1600 pounds in weight. Even black bears in the lower states can reach over 600 pounds. The cats like mountain lions, and cougars are much smaller reaching perhaps 200 pounds and wolves are typically in the 100-150 pound range. Because of this great discrepancy in size the choice of a handgun for defense in the wild depends on where in the wild you are.

http://www.firearmss...om/selfwild.htm

[Hawkin]

I've always often wondered if these creatures do exist based on all the reports around the world.
it's just that there is denial that they exist because the scientific community doesn't want a bunch
of redneck hunters wondering through the forest looking to kill them. Look what happened to the
buffalo and the wolf.

[Sakari]

Mag357, on 13 January 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

I've always often wondered if these creatures do exist based on all the reports around the world.
it's just that there is denial that they exist because the scientific community doesn't want a bunch
of redneck hunters wondering through the forest looking to kill them. Look what happened to the
buffalo and the wolf.

The Wolf was and is killed by the Government,( Scientific Community, Biologists ) not by rednecks.

And, a bunch of red neck hunters ( Bigfoot Hunters ) have been looking for Bif for a very long time, and not found a one.

[Hawkin]

Sakari, on 13 January 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

The Wolf was and is killed by the Government,( Scientific Community, Biologists ) not by rednecks.

And, a bunch of red neck hunters ( Bigfoot Hunters ) have been looking for Bif for a very long time, and not found a one.

Do you consider yourself a redneck?

[Sakari]

Mag357, on 13 January 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Do you consider yourself a redneck?

That would depend on what your definition of a redneck is.

My definition, no I do not.

[QuiteContrary]

Ambush Bug, on 13 January 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Here is what that articles says:

[i]

The best solution is take every care and precaution against a bear attack by carrying a whistle, etc. with proper preparedness as to not startle a bear or attract a bear.
An idiot can use bear spray but it is standing your ground during a charge that is utmost important.

*snip*

That is the problem, not any idiot can use bear spray. People forget it in the moment, freeze, run, put it somewhere not easily accessible, fumble with aiming and shooting. You have to feel comfortable using it, be prepared to use it, know how to use it, and get to it instantaneously.  

And somehow, all at the same time, fight what would be an incredible flight urge! I'd want to RUUNNN!!! Straight up a tree with the bear right behind me!

Hiking in numbers helps as well. A brown bear study showed attacks on hiking groups of  3? or more people (can't remember the exact number 3 or 4)  are nonexistent. But hiking in a crowd certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea.
But if it's your thing, it's another preventative measure you could take in brown bear country.

[B Jenkins]

QuiteContrary, on 14 January 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

*snip*

That is the problem, not any idiot can use bear spray. People forget it in the moment, freeze, run, put it somewhere not easily accessible, fumble with aiming and shooting. You have to feel comfortable using it, be prepared to use it, know how to use it, and get to it instantaneously.  

And somehow, all at the same time, fight what would be an incredible flight urge! I'd want to RUUNNN!!! Straight up a tree with the bear right behind me!

Hiking in numbers helps as well. A brown bear study showed attacks on hiking groups of  3? or more people (can't remember the exact number 3 or 4)  are nonexistent. But hiking in a crowd certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea.
But if it's your thing, it's another preventative measure you could take in brown bear country.

So true.

But the same things can be said of carrying firearms in bear country and wounding a bear is sure to make the situation worse.

Quote

Hiking in numbers helps as well. A brown bear study showed attacks on hiking groups of  3? or more people (can't remember the exact number 3 or 4)  are nonexistent. But hiking in a crowd certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea.
But if it's your thing, it's another preventative measure you could take in brown bear country.

Great point.

Edited by Ambush Bug, 15 January 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[keninsc]

Ambush Bug, on 15 January 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

So true.

But the same things can be said of carrying firearms in bear country and wounding a bear is sure to make the situation worse.

Don't shoot to wound, always shoot to kill, unless you're trying to scare it off with the noise from the gun fire. That's why most handguns are multi-shot capable.

[B Jenkins]

keninsc, on 15 January 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Don't shoot to wound, always shoot to kill, unless you're trying to scare it off with the noise from the gun fire. That's why most handguns are multi-shot capable.

Here lies the problem, what distance is the bear at? They can reach speeds of 35 MPH in a dead run? And if your gun is too light for the animal, a kill-shot is not a guarantee!

[scowl]

keninsc, on 15 January 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Don't shoot to wound, always shoot to kill, unless you're trying to scare it off with the noise from the gun fire.

Or by wounding it.

Quote

That's why most handguns are multi-shot capable.

So another person can pick up your gun and shoot the animal while it's mauling you.

[keninsc]

B Jenkins, on 15 January 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Here lies the problem, what distance is the bear at? They can reach speeds of 35 MPH in a dead run? And if your gun is too light for the animal, a kill-shot is not a guarantee!

And if that pepper spray is old then it's not going to be very effective either.

[keninsc]

scowl, on 15 January 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

So another person can pick up your gun and shoot the animal while it's mauling you.

Naaaw, if your walking partner was too wimpy to carry a gun then odds are they'll just leave you to feed the bear and take off running while the bear's distracted.