45 replies to this topic

[None of the above]

and then, on 12 October 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

Since MILLIONS of these procedures have been performed over the centuries, some in very primitive circumstances, if there were long term health problems would they not be known?  So the question becomes  - whose right is it to suddenly deny anyone their heritage and traditions?  Why is it suddenly so important?

In my opinion it is a childs right to not be mutilated or surgically altered to suit the whim of it's parents religious 'traditions'.

Why are childrens rights 'suddenly so important'?
That would be progress.

[None of the above]

and then, on 12 October 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Actually, I said no such thing, Flombie.  I said if there were long term health problems would they not be known?  But, okay, maybe you can cite the studies showing how such procedures negatively affect the health of those who undergo them?  Vaccinations and dental procedures change a child's body for life as well..should we wait and let the child make those decisions?  I submit that the issue is cultural superiority at best and anti Semitism at worst.

To say that opposition to cicumcision is anti-semitism is completely unfair.
It is anti child abuse. Are you not in favour of protecting children from unnecessary painful surgical alterations?
How is this in any way comparable to mass vaccination programmes that have saved millions of lives?

[smurf0852]

this is pretty simple really there is no excuse for mutilating a child .it doesnt matter about heritage,religion or perceived health consequences of not removing a body part (after all if we removed legs kids could never break a leg) .
it is assault of a child and is wrong to think otherwise is moronic.

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

You people are so biased its rediculous to even read what is being said. There are health benefits and complications are so rare that the benefits outweigh the complications. Look instead of bashing people and calling it mutilation just say I choose not to and others choose to. We each have our own ideas about what is right for us. So quit the hate because its getting old. Your all better than that.

[smurf0852]

Aus Der Box Skeptisch, on 12 October 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

You people are so biased its rediculous to even read what is being said. There are health benefits and complications are so rare that the benefits outweigh the complications. Look instead of bashing people and calling it mutilation just say I choose not to and others choose to. We each have our own ideas about what is right for us. So quit the hate because its getting old. Your all better than that.

am i biased against assaulting small children? hell yes i am and i am proud to be religion or tradition has no place in altering a humans body forever .
if people want to get it done as adults i have no problem with that but removing a childs body part because an adult wants to is wrong .

[None of the above]

Aus Der Box Skeptisch, on 12 October 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

You people are so biased its rediculous to even read what is being said. There are health benefits and complications are so rare that the benefits outweigh the complications. Look instead of bashing people and calling it mutilation just say I choose not to and others choose to. We each have our own ideas about what is right for us. So quit the hate because its getting old. Your all better than that.

Oh do grow the F up.
If there were significant health benefits it would have been adopted worldwide as a standard procedure among all industrailised countries or we would have evolved to be 'foreskinless' as a species. Playing the 'hater card' is what's old here, try and be an adult.

[None of the above]

smurf0852, on 12 October 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

am i biased against assaulting small children? hell yes i am and i am proud to be religion or tradition has no place in altering a humans body forever .
if people want to get it done as adults i have no problem with that but removing a childs body part because an adult wants to is wrong .

Too fracking right mate!

Edited by Atlantia, 12 October 2012 - 11:32 PM.

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

Didn't think you guys could step up. Thought I'd try though. Very disappointing but I respect your personal decision.

[and then]

Atlantia, on 12 October 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

In my opinion it is a childs right to not be mutilated or surgically altered to suit the whim of it's parents religious 'traditions'.

Why are childrens rights 'suddenly so important'?
That would be progress.

Then don't have your child circumsized.  It's arrogant to try to impose your opinions of right and wrong on others.  How dare you attempt to tell another person that their belief system is wrong - unless of course they are attempting to kill you because of it....

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

You guys are already pretty set in your beliefs so I know you likely wont read these links but here you go anyways. I wish you all well.
http://nymag.com/the...rcumcision.html

http://www.huffingto..._n_1826069.html

These articles address both sides so I hope it will be read if at all with a clear perspective. Please refrain from bashing people though we are better than that.

[None of the above]

and then, on 13 October 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

Then don't have your child circumsized.  It's arrogant to try to impose your opinions of right and wrong on others.  How dare you attempt to tell another person that their belief system is wrong - unless of course they are attempting to kill you because of it....

Gee thanks, I didn't

Yeah that's right I'm 'arrogant' because I choose 'not to' abuse children.
I guess I'll continue to 'dare' to be 'arrogant' then.

I take it that you feel the same about female 'circumcision' in the muslim world? Want to protect that 'belief system' do you?

[Neognosis]

Quote

if people want to get it done as adults i have no problem with that but removing a childs body part because an adult wants to is wrong .

Then don't circumcise your kid.

I have a son, and I chose not to circumcise him. But if we decided to, that is our business.

Quote

I take it that you feel the same about female 'circumcision' in the muslim world? Want to protect that 'belief system' do you?

That is up to THEM to change.
If we disagree with something that is a part of their culture, we should not trade with them, and that includes buying their oil.

Because if we go around getting involved in other people's cultures and telling them what they should or should't do, they might get really mad at us and do something like try to blow up buildings in one of our major cit... oh, wait..

[supervike]

It's no skin off my front either way...

[Zaphod222]

Germany caved to muslim and jewish pressure.

What a shame. They should have stood up and defended their secular constitution.

"Religious liberty" is fine, but it should not extend to physical mutilation of children in the name of religion.

[Zaphod222]

Neognosis, on 13 October 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

I have a son, and I chose not to circumcise him. But if we decided to, that is our business.
.

...and if you wanted to cut his hand or foot off, that would be "your business too"?

Yes, parents have rights over their children, but they should not extend to mutilation. If the kids wants to cut things off his body, let him become 18 and make the decision for himself. It is not yours.