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Ghost Box


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#1    Indrid

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 02:54 PM

Some of you may recall a thread in which I asked for people's opinions on the phone application "Ghost Radar" that is available for most smartphones in some form or another. While it was a nifty app, there were no reliable testimonies or evidence to validate the software' legitimacy. In short, it was there to be used more for fun than actual research.

Not too long after I had made that original thread, my periodic delving into paranormal "evidence" on the web led me to the discovery of the "Ghost Box". This device intrigued me. It seemed to require more effort in the even one were attempting to preform a hoax than say your standard EVP. One can easily whisper whilst recording with a device, upload it to the Internet and call it an "EVP". Yet in the case of the Ghost Box, I would think an extra amount of skill and time invested is required to recreate the audio effects that the Ghost Box produces while inserting ones own desired words and phrases into the recording.

I have zero experience in using a Ghost Box but after watching a number of videos online I'm curious to know why there isn't a greater amount of attention paid to this method if it is seemingly so reliable and regularly produces results for all sorts of individuals.

Steven Huff has a YouTube channel called "Huff Paranormal" I believe. He has recorded countless Ghost Box sessions and his recordings seem quite convincing. Although I am still doubtful. While someone's accounts may be believable and convincing, and hell I may even say "Well this could be possible", I never truly believe something until I experience it firsthand.

So, is picking up a Ghost Box worth the try? Do you have experience with one? What do the skeptics says?


#2    sinewave

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:22 PM

Most smart phones, like the iPhone contain several sensors.  They typically have light detectors for adjusting the screen brightness, a proximity sensor for turning off the display when the phone is close to your face, an accelerometer for detecting movement and orientation, gyroscope for enhanced motion detection, and a magnetometer for compass functions.  There are many EMF detector apps that use the magnetometer to sense changes in the ambient magnetic field.  

The idea behind EMF detectors the way ghost busters use them is predicated on the assumption that ghosts are electromagnetic in nature.  So if ghosts exist and they are in fact electromagnetic that puts them is a very large club with thousands of natural and man made sources of EMF.  Here is a partial list of what might also be moving the meter of your EMF detector:

Transformers including CFLs
Live electrical wiring
Radio and TV broadcasts including commercial radio, HAM, CB, police, fire, and military radio bands.
Microwave ovens
Terrestrial telecommunications relays
Satellite relays
Cell towers
RADAR used for weather, navigation, air traffic control
Garage door openers
Electric generators
Automotive ignition systems
Electric motors
Cell phones
Wifi access points
Computers
Wireless devices including toys, cordless phones, baby monitors,and Bluetooth
Digital recording devices
Locomotives
Static electricity on your body/clothing
Your nervous system
Earth's magnetosphere
The piezoelectric effect
Cosmic radiation
Solar flares, sun spots, CMEs
Electrical storms (even ones 100 miles away)
Geologic formations

There are many, many more and you don't even have to be close to some of them to detect their fields.  We are bathed in EM fields every minute of every day no matter where we are and the likelihood of you being able to determine the source of a subtle flicker on your EMF meter is ridiculously small.  For EMF results to be valid, you would have to control out everything listed above and more.  


Ghost boxes are just radio scanners.  They scan randomly or sequentially though a given part of the RF spectrum outputting bits of audio along the way.  The audio is not voices from the other side but rather small chunks of commercial broadcasts mixed up in a random sequence.  

There is no science to ghost hunting despite all of the electronic devices carried by ghost busters.

Edited by sinewave, 13 October 2013 - 04:33 PM.


#3    stevemagegod

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 06:44 PM

Yes i agree that the Ghost Box is very interesting indeed. I would like to try it out myself if i can get my hands on one.


#4    sam_comm

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:53 PM

Mini Boxes are fascinating, I never used one but I've seen some very interesting results. It's popularity among the paranormal communities is rising for it has shown potential.

Aside from Huffparanormal, KBeeze13 is quite active on youtube as well: http://www.youtube.c...3?feature=watch

Perhaps you should test it by yourself, and see what it can do in real time. Though it was difficult a few years ago for the common folk to get a Mini Box working (you had to hack a mini radioshack radio 12-587) now Ghost Hunting sites are selling them ready to use. (http://www.ghoststop...unting-s/59.htm)


View Postsinewave, on 13 October 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Ghost boxes are just radio scanners.  They scan randomly or sequentially though a given part of the RF spectrum outputting bits of audio along the way.  The audio is not voices from the other side but rather small chunks of commercial broadcasts mixed up in a random sequence.

I am not convinced of that. The reason is simple: You ask direct questions and can get direct answers. It's possible to hold a coherent conversation with the voice(s) coming out of the box. So, while I think chunks of commercial broadcasts do get mixed up and can be misinterpreted, pushing the coincidence too far doesn't explain what people are experiencing.

Is it possible that some kind of entities can communicate through that in real time EVPs? I think it should not be ruled out so quickly.

Edited by sam_comm, 23 October 2013 - 09:21 PM.


#5    sinewave

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:24 AM

View Postsam_comm, on 23 October 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Mini Boxes are fascinating, I never used one but I've seen some very interesting results. It's popularity among the paranormal communities is rising for it has shown potential.

Aside from Huffparanormal, KBeeze13 is quite active on youtube as well: http://www.youtube.c...3?feature=watch

Perhaps you should test it by yourself, and see what it can do in real time. Though it was difficult a few years ago for the common folk to get a Mini Box working (you had to hack a mini radioshack radio 12-587) now Ghost Hunting sites are selling them ready to use. (http://www.ghoststop...unting-s/59.htm)




I am not convinced of that. The reason is simple: You ask direct questions and can get direct answers. It's possible to hold a coherent conversation with the voice(s) coming out of the box. So, while I think chunks of commercial broadcasts do get mixed up and can be misinterpreted, pushing the coincidence too far doesn't explain what people are experiencing.

Is it possible that some kind of entities can communicate through that in real time EVPs? I think it should not be ruled out so quickly.

Look up Franks Box schematic and see for yourself.  It is a simple radio receiver.  

Pareidolia and researcher bias.  You are relying entirely on your perception which is fine if you are just looking for a thrill.  You seem a little too smart for that though.

Edited by sinewave, 24 October 2013 - 01:34 AM.


#6    sinewave

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:36 AM

View Postsam_comm, on 23 October 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Mini Boxes are fascinating, I never used one but I've seen some very interesting results. It's popularity among the paranormal communities is rising for it has shown potential.

Aside from Huffparanormal, KBeeze13 is quite active on youtube as well: http://www.youtube.c...3?feature=watch

Perhaps you should test it by yourself, and see what it can do in real time. Though it was difficult a few years ago for the common folk to get a Mini Box working (you had to hack a mini radioshack radio 12-587) now Ghost Hunting sites are selling them ready to use. (http://www.ghoststop...unting-s/59.htm)




I am not convinced of that. The reason is simple: You ask direct questions and can get direct answers. It's possible to hold a coherent conversation with the voice(s) coming out of the box. So, while I think chunks of commercial broadcasts do get mixed up and can be misinterpreted, pushing the coincidence too far doesn't explain what people are experiencing.

Is it possible that some kind of entities can communicate through that in real time EVPs? I think it should not be ruled out so quickly.

The ghost, spirit, Franks box is built around this item right here. http://www.datasheet.../8/LA1816.shtml   It is an AM/FM tuner.

Edited by sinewave, 24 October 2013 - 03:37 AM.


#7    sam_comm

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:33 PM

I am aware of that. What we call a ''Ghost Box'' , ''Spirit Box'' or ''Mini Box'' are essentially simple radios that have the fonction to scan through the AM/FM bands until they find a radio station available. These radio can be modifed of hacked to endlessly scan the bands, passing the stations for about a fractions of a second and creating statics and white noises.

It is theorized that entites can communicate by manipulating the static white noise and create voices sometimes using multiple frequencies. It is far from been proved but according to many paranormal investigators, there is a potential in the device and it gave interesting results.

For the common folks, it was not necesserely easy to create a ''spirit'' box for you had to modified a radio yourself. The most popular were the mini Radio Shack radio 12-587 or 12-469, you could get one for 25$ and were the ''easier'' to transform into a portable 'Mini Box'. Here's how to do it: http://www.ghost-tech.com/box_hack.php

Now, there is no need for that, for about 50$ anyone interested to try can get one ready to use on Ghost Hunting sites. The  P-SB7 Spirit Box been the less expensive model.

Edited by sam_comm, 24 October 2013 - 03:47 PM.


#8    sinewave

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:42 PM

Ghosts tend to disappear when the data resolution is high.   Adding random noise by misusing electronic devices serves only to appeal to pareidolia.  It may seem to make things clearer but it is only forcing perceptual miscues.

Edited by sinewave, 24 October 2013 - 07:43 PM.


#9    sam_comm

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:05 PM

That depend, auditory pareidolia is a tendancy of the brain when to look for patterns and ''fill the void'' with informations. I think that audtitive pareidolia can be a factor especially when the audio is very bad and the results incoherent. No doubt it could explain various things heard out of the box. Some people will hear what they want, that's true.

Does that mean all one can hear from a modified radio come from his imagination? I have my doubts. I find strange that 4 or 5 people hearing the same things in a Ghost Box experience are often ''filling the void'' with the exact same informations. However I am not totally ''sold'' to the device and I will wait for more documentations and experiences to have a clear opinion and assessment.


If I accept the possiblity that entites can interact with us in some ways or that a subconscious mind can create a psychic phenomenon that are the causes of these voices, then it's not illogic to at least consider that it could be the case. I am open-minded with regards to the causes but will not jump to a conclusion, rational or not without satisfying evidences.

Edited by sam_comm, 24 October 2013 - 11:31 PM.


#10    sinewave

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:43 AM

View Postsam_comm, on 24 October 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

That depend, auditory pareidolia is a tendancy of the brain when to look for patterns and ''fill the void'' with informations. I think that audtitive pareidolia can be a factor especially when the audio is very bad and the results incoherent. No doubt it could explain various things heard out of the box. Some people will hear what they want, that's true.

Yes, and the longer a person is exposed to random stimuli the more likely they are to start "decoding" it.

Quote

Does that mean all one can hear from a modified radio come from his imagination? I have my doubts. I find strange that 4 or 5 people hearing the same things in a Ghost Box experience are often ''filling the void'' with the exact same informations. However I am not totally ''sold'' to the device and I will wait for more documentations and experiences to have a clear opinion and assessment.

A better question is, based on the tendency for people to find patterns,  is there any reason to believe anything coming out of such a radio scanner would be more than random noise?   Human perception is an amazing thing but is also horribly flawed.   You cannot rely on perception alone as evidence of anything.  

Quote

If I accept the possiblity that entites can interact with us in some ways or that a subconscious mind can create a psychic phenomenon that are the causes of these voices, then it's not illogic to at least consider that it could be the case. I am open-minded with regards to the causes but will not jump to a conclusion, rational or not without satisfying evidences.

You are attempting to construct a reality that supports your belief rather than critically analyzing the belief for plausibility.   :)


#11    sam_comm

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:11 PM

View Postsinewave, on 25 October 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

Yes, and the longer a person is exposed to random stimuli the more likely they are to start "decoding" it.

Or they will get better distinguish it! A person attempting the experience many times might be able to sort out in a more efficient way what can be considered clear words and what should be left out.

View Postsinewave, on 25 October 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

A better question is, based on the tendency for people to find patterns,  is there any reason to believe anything coming out of such a radio scanner would be more than random noise?   Human perception is an amazing thing but is also horribly flawed.   You cannot rely on perception alone as evidence of anything..

The concept is still very much experimental so I can't personally give a definitive answer. But there has been some interesting experiment done with it. I don't think anyone will prove the existence of entites based on that device but it can possibly serve as a tool to attempt communication and might very well be improved in years to come. Some ingeneers are working in the developpement of various technologies for the use of Paranormal investigations so the possiblity of making a discovery which will allow to further the field of research is there.


View Postsinewave, on 25 October 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

You are attempting to construct a reality that supports your belief rather than critically analyzing the belief for plausibility.   :)

Quite the contrary. I am open to various possiblities concerning the ghost box and I've yet to see more experiment done with it. But sometimes, in looking for the simplest explanations, we can miss something bigger. I feel that pareidolia can explain some of what is experienced but I can't say definitly and convincingly that's all there is to it. You seem to dismiss and rule out anything that might be unscientific so I would equally say that you try to maintain your own reality without critically and objectively analyzing the possibilites.

Edited by sam_comm, 25 October 2013 - 04:19 PM.


#12    sinewave

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:43 PM

View Postsam_comm, on 25 October 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Or they will get better distinguish it! A person attempting the experience many times might be able to sort out in a more efficient way what can be considered clear words and what should be left out.

What happens to people who are placed in sensory deprivation too long?  Panic sets in and rational thought becomes difficult or impossible.  The same has been observed when people are exposed to white noise and other unstructured random stimuli. It does not enhance perception it takes it away.


Quote

The concept is still very much experimental so I can't personally give a definitive answer. But there has been some interesting experiment done with it. I don't think anyone will prove the existence of entites based on that device but it can possibly serve as a tool to attempt communication and might very well be improved in years to come. Some ingeneers are working in the developpement of various technologies for the use of Paranormal investigations so the possiblity of making a discovery which will allow to further the field of research is there.

Experimental implies science is at work.  Science requires evidence.  The beliefs surrounding the Franks box are wild speculation.  


Quote

Quite the contrary. I am open to various possiblities concerning the ghost box and I've yet to see more experiment done with it. But sometimes, in looking for the simplest explanations, we can miss something bigger. I feel that pareidolia can explain some of what is experienced but I can't say definitly and convincingly that's all there is to it. You seem to dismiss and rule out anything that might be unscientific so I would equally say that you try to maintain your own reality without critically and objectively analyzing the possibilites.

The fact 999 out of 1000 people see the "face" on Mars does not make it a face. There should be no surprise people would hear intelligible voices on a Franks box.  Radio stations spend a lot of money to keep their signals strong and clean.  That someone would assign meaning to the radio guacamole produced by that device is a stretch of fantasy and imagination.


#13    sam_comm

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 05:40 PM

View Postsinewave, on 25 October 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

What happens to people who are placed in sensory deprivation too long?  Panic sets in and rational thought becomes difficult or impossible.  The same has been observed when people are exposed to white noise and other unstructured random stimuli. It does not enhance perception it takes it away.

I don't disagree with that but you're refering to extreme cases of people deprivated for a long period of time. Experimentating ghost box sessions reasonably doesn't left you unable to distinguish what you clearly hear and what you can't. When in doubt, throw in the garbage. You'll be left with what is coherent and clear. If there is nothing left, then so be it.


View Postsinewave, on 25 October 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

The fact 999 out of 1000 people see the "face" on Mars does not make it a face. There should be no surprise people would hear intelligible voices on a Franks box.  Radio stations spend a lot of money to keep their signals strong and clean.  That someone would assign meaning to the radio guacamole produced by that device is a stretch of fantasy and imagination.

For all we know, a Ghost Box could be used as a mean among others to communicate. The fact that pareidolia and misinterpreations can occur doesn't necesserely exclude other causes. If you take the exemple of Ouija sessions or EVP sessions, there has been cases where pareidolia and the ideomotor effect can be excluded as it does not give a satisfyng explanation to a phenomenon. I am skeptical of an EVP when you have to strain to understand it. That to me, is where pareidolia take place. But if I hear an EVP clear as day, as I can hear someone talking, then it can be seriously considered.

According to some people, you can't hear anything out of an electronical device without it been pareidolia and that is pushing it too far.

Edited by sam_comm, 26 October 2013 - 05:52 PM.


#14    sinewave

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 06:13 PM

View Postsam_comm, on 26 October 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

I don't disagree with that but you're refering to extreme cases of people deprivated for a long period of time. Experimentating ghost box sessions reasonably doesn't left you unable to distinguish what you clearly hear and what you can't. When in doubt, throw in the garbage. You'll be left with what is coherent and clear. If there is nothing left, then so be it.

It is well established fact the human brain will attempt to find structure in chaos.  It is a far more probable cause than are voices from beyond.


Quote

For all we know, a Ghost Box could be used as a mean among others to communicate. The fact that pareidolia and misinterpreations can occur doesn't necesserely exclude other causes. If you take the exemple of Ouija sessions or EVP sessions, there has been cases where pareidolia and the ideomotor phenomenon can be excluded as it does not give a satisfyng explanation to an experience. I am skeptical of an EVP when you have to strain to understand it. That to me, is where pareidolia take place. But if I hear an EVP clear as day, as I can hear someone talking, then it can be seriously considered.

For all we know?  We know it is a radio receiver that randomly scans heavily used sections of the RF spectrum.  We know those RF bands are virtually certain to contain the voices of real live humans.  We also know that pareidolia is a readily observable and universal perceptual phenomenon.   Given those verifiable facts, pareidolia is by far the most likely explanation for this alleged phenomenon.   That does not mean ghosts don't exist, it only means you have a really tough task if you hope to elevate the notion from belief to science.  


Quote

According to some people, you can't hear anything out of an electronical device without it been pareidolia and that is pushing it too far.

Well, not really.  The evidence is squarely against it.  More importantly, the burden of proof lies with the claimer.  Until you can prove there is something meaningful in that noise, the notion remains a highly improbable hypothesis in the eyes of science.

Edited by sinewave, 26 October 2013 - 06:14 PM.


#15    sam_comm

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 08:56 PM

View Postsinewave, on 26 October 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

It is well established fact the human brain will attempt to find structure in chaos.  It is a far more probable cause than are voices from beyond.


The same is said concerning EVPs and Ouija sessions, that here is nothing more to it than pareidolia and the idemotor effect but a very interesting documentation gathered over the years of experiences with these devices point to something more. Is it scientific proof, not at all but I don't see how these phenomenon should be considered illegitimate. It could be that in some cases the Spirit box can produce the same range of phenomenon that are not related to pareidolia.


View Postsinewave, on 26 October 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

For all we know?  We know it is a radio receiver that randomly scans heavily used sections of the RF spectrum.  We know those RF bands are virtually certain to contain the voices of real live humans.  We also know that pareidolia is a readily observable and universal perceptual phenomenon.   Given those verifiable facts, pareidolia is by far the most likely explanation for this alleged phenomenon.   That does not mean ghosts don't exist, it only means you have a really tough task if you hope to elevate the notion from belief to science.

The scientific explanations are not in doubt here, we all know that pareidolia is common and that misinterprations of radio stations' broadcasts can be easily made if one is not careful. The scientific explanations can probably explain many cases. The question is and what we do not know is could an entity communicate through that? I am open-minded to the possbility and according to the documentations one can find with other means used in paranormal circles such as EVPs recordings and Ouija boards which have given interesting results than it may not be ludicrous to think that a Spirit Box could serve this purpose as well. If energy beings do exists, which is an hypothesis, it may be that they can manipulate the radio waves and influence frequencies. More data need to be gathered before jumping to a conclusion.


View Postsinewave, on 26 October 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

Well, not really.  The evidence is squarely against it.  More importantly, the burden of proof lies with the claimer.  Until you can prove there is something meaningful in that noise, the notion remains a highly improbable hypothesis in the eyes of science.

Science is still very much a work in progress and history tells us that sometimes highly imprable hypothesis in the eyes of science becomes reality. I am not saying it is the case here ou would be, but since science do not recognize paranormal phenomenon as legit, I am skeptical of this claim. Unfortunately, a person's experience cannnot necesserely be proved in a scientific method and if the phenomenon is in itself it both objective/subjective and elusive, you'll have a hard time 'proving' that to a skeptical community. Especially when the scientific evidence are ''squarely'' against you.

Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.” Albert Einstein

Edited by sam_comm, 26 October 2013 - 09:16 PM.





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