72 replies to this topic

[and then]

http://www.foxnews.c...t-to-your-town/

THIS hacks me off.  I'm a careful driver, always have been.  No wrecks and only two speeding tix in almost 40 years of driving.  I didn't complain (much) about the stop light cams when they appeared.  Running a red light can cause death and injury and in some communities it's a rampant habit.  Now they want to start picking pockets apparently.  Stop Signs are everywhere and there is good justification in many cases for not coming to a complete stop every time.  But more importantly, where does the "nanny State" end it's jurisdiction?  When the drones become more ubiquitous will we have to hide under opaque screens to keep from being watched while we smoke a cigar?  Will there be a set of laws against said opaque screens?  
I'm already considering what type and power of LASER will be needed to damage drones.  Seriously.  Enough is enough.  It's beginning to remind me of the scene from A Clockwork Orange where Malcolm McDowell is kicking the guy as he lays helpless on the floor - all the while, singing - "Singing in the Rain"    GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

[karmakazi]

and then, on 12 August 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

http://www.foxnews.c...t-to-your-town/

THIS hacks me off.  I'm a careful driver, always have been.  No wrecks and only two speeding tix in almost 40 years of driving.  I didn't complain (much) about the stop light cams when they appeared.  Running a red light can cause death and injury and in some communities it's a rampant habit.  Now they want to start picking pockets apparently.  Stop Signs are everywhere and there is good justification in many cases for not coming to a complete stop every time.  But more importantly, where does the "nanny State" end it's jurisdiction?  When the drones become more ubiquitous will we have to hide under opaque screens to keep from being watched while we smoke a cigar?  Will there be a set of laws against said opaque screens?  
I'm already considering what type and power of LASER will be needed to damage drones.  Seriously.  Enough is enough.  It's beginning to remind me of the scene from A Clockwork Orange where Malcolm McDowell is kicking the guy as he lays helpless on the floor - all the while, singing - "Singing in the Rain" GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

The thing about traffic tickets is that it does not deter people who can easily afford them, yet it devastates people who made an honest error in judgement and can't afford a ticket.  When I worked at minimum wage, a ticket would have been my entire paycheck for a week.

We have red light cameras here, but at least once a day there are people still entering an intersection after the light has turned green for opposing traffic.  I can only hope they'd limit the stop sign cameras to busy / dangerous intersections.  Otherwise that would be a ridiculous amount of tax money spent on cameras in places they may not be needed.

[questionmark]

karmakazi, on 12 August 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

The thing about traffic tickets is that it does not deter people who can easily afford them, yet it devastates people who made an honest error in judgement and can't afford a ticket.  When I worked at minimum wage, a ticket would have been my entire paycheck for a week.

We have red light cameras here, but at least once a day there are people still entering an intersection after the light has turned green for opposing traffic.  I can only hope they'd limit the stop sign cameras to busy / dangerous intersections.  Otherwise that would be a ridiculous amount of tax money spent on cameras in places they may not be needed.

Maybe a European innovation could help there, you don't get fined a fixed amount but in forms of days of earning, i.e. for eight days for running a stop sign or a red light, if you earn $1000 in 8 days your fine will be $1000, if you earn $100,000 your fine will be $100,000. That way everybody is equally "scared" of infringing the law.

To the OP, you know the law, and if you just stepped over its bounds you face a fine. Simple. And it is of little relevance whether you get caught by a cop hidden somewhere or a camera. Besides it is time that the stop law gets enforced, about 1/3 off all traffic accidents are cause by people not stopping and about 1/3 of all traffic deaths. And that you were lucky so far is no excuse.

[The Mule]

the issue i have is that it penalizes the car owner, not the driver. Somewhere some parent is going to find themselves swamped with tickets because their kid is a moron and the fact that people arent notified real time.

[questionmark]

The Mule, on 12 August 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

the issue i have is that it penalizes the car owner, not the driver. Somewhere some parent is going to find themselves swamped with tickets because their kid is a moron and the fact that people arent notified real time.

Then somebody should fix that, there is no law that holds you accountable for the action of others. In most countries they take a picture that shows both the driver and the license plate. And as far as I remember in most States as well.

[Super-Fly]

Get some spray glue and cover the lense.

Or black spray paint.

Tidy,

Thanks.

[ThickasaBrick]

I will say it again. Driving is the most dangerous activity Americans engage in. Instead of ticketing more people, most just don't learn, there needs to be larger penalties for driving infractions. More requirements to obtain a license would also help. Reaching the required age and passing the simplistic tests are just not enough training.

If a "fine" for speeding was loss of license for a week instead of just money more people would learn from their infractions. Instead of just losing a weeks worth of pay, you must now walk, ride a bike, or obtain a ride to get to work. Few things teach lessons like good old sweat. After a week of begging rides or walking I would bet that drivers would pay much more attention to the laws, which are generally to protect others more than themselves.

[and then]

questionmark, on 12 August 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Maybe a European innovation could help there, you don't get fined a fixed amount but in forms of days of earning, i.e. for eight days for running a stop sign or a red light, if you earn $1000 in 8 days your fine will be $1000, if you earn $100,000 your fine will be $100,000. That way everybody is equally "scared" of infringing the law.

To the OP, you know the law, and if you just stepped over its bounds you face a fine. Simple. And it is of little relevance whether you get caught by a cop hidden somewhere or a camera. Besides it is time that the stop law gets enforced, about 1/3 off all traffic accidents are cause by people not stopping and about 1/3 of all traffic deaths. And that you were lucky so far is no excuse.

In this instance I can grudgingly agree but the greater point is that of limits.  Where does such automated surveillance end?  Will laws be passed to prevent the citizen from "hiding" their activities from the government?  It's leading to some serious infringement issues IMO.

[Socio]

Or try some of that license plate spray that is supposed to blur the image of it when taken a photo of.

I hate red light cameras they put them on two busy intersections by my house, but before they were there traffic flowed fine never to much of a back up, after they put them up traffic got 10x worse now you have to wait an average of three light changes to get through them. They altered the light timing s not for safety purposes but to catch more people on camera, they are nothing but a money making scam.

In fact numerous studies have shown they cause more accidents than they prevent;

http://www.motorists...cameras/studies

Quote

The preponderance of independent research (in other words, research that was not funded by ticket camera vendors or units of government interested in justifying camera-based traffic enforcement) has illustrated that ticket cameras typically increase, not decrease, the number of accidents at controlled intersections.

Edited by Socio, 12 August 2012 - 01:14 PM.

[Babe Ruth]

Super-Fly, on 12 August 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Get some spray glue and cover the lense.

Or black spray paint.

Tidy,

Thanks.

There are products available on the internet that can be sprayed on the license tag itself, and then somehow or other it diffuses the light on the flash device for the camera, and the tag is unreadable to the camera.  It DOES work, but over time the stuff seems to lose its ability and has to be re-sprayed.

The Red Light Cameras are a fraud and terribly unfair because it boils down to being in the wrong "white box" at the wrong time, as defined by mere fractions of seconds. Further, they increase the frequency of rear-end collisions at the intersection.

We actually had a successful battle with the City Commission in my home town.  When people are educated as to exactly how these things work, who gets penalized and who makes the money, they understand it is literally highway robbery conducted by the local jurisdiction.

Haven't seen the stop sign cameras yet, but it is another unjust practice, it sounds like.

Edited by Babe Ruth, 12 August 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[Paracelse]

The best way is to stop at stop signs and and red lights, not only it might save your life or someone elses, but in the long run it will costs the city so much they will stop, while most people will be then in the habit of stoping at those signs.

QM; only Finland has such proportional to income traffic tickets in EU and Switzerland is thinking about it so no there isn't an EU law yet

[questionmark]

Paracelse, on 12 August 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

The best way is to stop at stop signs and and red lights, not only it might save your life or someone elses, but in the long run it will costs the city so much they will stop, while most people will be then in the habit of stoping at those signs.

QM; only Finland has such proportional to income traffic tickets in EU and Switzerland is thinking about it so no there isn't an EU law yet

Also Germany (Where I found the 8 day thingy for running a red light or stop sign) and Holland have it.

[Corp]

There are people who blow through stop signs all the time. Maybe this will stop them. Also helps to generate some income by nailing those who break the law. Not seeing the issue here. If you follow the law this will have zero impact on your life.

[F3SS]

There isn't a driver on here who agrees or disagrees with this camera thing that comes to a full and complete 5 second stop at every stop sign you encounter every single time you drive. Nobody does. I'm not advocating irresponsibility but seriously, you don't. You'll all be crying if this becomes popular. And about the fines based on income, that's ludacris. Firstly, it's ludacris. Second, that's just a big brother tactic to control your life and steal your money. Third having to do with he second, it just removes the ability to think for yourself and practice self responsibility and learn lessons. Those are all American virtues that we'd like to keep. I much prefer the old fashion catch me if you can method.

[questionmark]

Is it for real, on 12 August 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

There isn't a driver on here who agrees or disagrees with this camera thing that comes to a full and complete 5 second stop at every stop sign you encounter every single time you drive. Nobody does. I'm not advocating irresponsibility but seriously, you don't. You'll all be crying if this becomes popular. And about the fines based on income, that's ludacris. Firstly, it's ludacris. Second, that's just a big brother tactic to control your life and steal your money. Third having to do with he second, it just removes the ability to think for yourself and practice self responsibility and learn lessons. Those are all American virtues that we'd like to keep. I much prefer the old fashion catch me if you can method.

So you say that the rich should be able to run three stoplights a week because they have the money to pay for it?