kmt_sesh Posted January 26, 2012 #1 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Greetings, all. I occasionally visit the Ghosts, Hauntings & Paranormal forum but very rarely post here. If any of you are familiar with me, you'll know me from the Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History forum. That's where I spend nearly all of my time at UM. As conventional and orthodox as I tend to be when analyzing things, certain aspects of the paranormal interest me. My own family has had experiences with hauntings, although I myself have had no personal experiences as of yet. I enjoy many of the "ghost" programs on television, including Ghost Hunters, Ghost Adventures, Paranormal State, and The Dead Files. I'm quite aware of the reputations of these programs and how dubious they can be, but I watch them merely for entertainment. I suppose it's the "grownup" version for me of the fun we had as kids freaking each other out with ghost stories. Seeing as how rarely I post in this forum, I wanted to bring a question to those of you who spend a lot of time here and take this stuff seriously. I should state flat out that while I do believe in the possibility of ghosts, I am by nature an extremely skeptical person and it takes a hell of a lot to convince me of a real haunting. For instance, as entertaining as Zak and his pals are on Ghost Adventures, very rarely in my opinion to they present anything of real probative value in the way of authenticating the paranormal. Those guys seem ready to accept anything and everything as "proof" of ghosts. I like watching them, and some of the locations they investigate are interesting, but Zak and his team are not exactly credible investigators. My specific question is about orbs. Hauntings have been a kind of sideline interest of mine my entire adult life, and while the bulk of my personal library is on the archaeology and linguistics of ancient Near Eastern civilizations, I also have acquired quite a few books on paranormal investigations. That said, in all of my life, be it from examining photos in books or watching some of the above-mentioned TV programs or YouTube videos, or even discussions in this very forum, I have never once--not even a single time--been convinced that an "orb" is proof of a spirit or ghost or anything else paranormal. I have been singularly unimpressed by every example of orbs I've ever seen. So, am I alone in this? I know how skeptical I am by nature, but it sure seems to me that lots of people jump at every bright spot in photos or on video footage as ghost-orbs. LOL Look at Zak and his Ghost Adventures crew: I don't think they've ever met an orb that they didn't classify as paranormal. I'd welcome feedback. I'm not here to flame or disrespect anyone, I assure you. I just want other people's opinions. It's been a bit dull lately in the Alternative History forum so I thought I'd pop in here and give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted January 26, 2012 Author #2 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I forgot to add something that really should've been in my OP. Every example of an orb I've ever seen can be explained, in my opinion, through the optics of photography--be it old-fashioned film, digital stills, or video. I have a certain amount of formal training in photography, up to and including working in dark rooms, but I admit I am hardly a professional photographer. Just a hobbyist. So this is also where I'm coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectre1979 Posted January 26, 2012 #3 Share Posted January 26, 2012 To me orbs are dust particles, nothing else. I am a skeptic at heart and require firm proof of things to believe them. I have had several experiences/sightings with things I call ghosts, cause I have no other word for them. I don't believe they are spirits of the dead though. But now I am off topic, so no orbs to me are dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acute Posted January 26, 2012 #4 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Real orbs don't move like dust. Orbs are the first stage of a manifestation. Spirits take energy from the environment around them, and use it to show themselves either as light or heat. Your batteries may go flat, your lamps may dim, or you may feel a chill. The temperature of the room can significantly drop. The next stage up from orbs is a kind-of veil about the size of a hand. Then, there is every stage up to an opaque full-body apparition. Edited January 26, 2012 by acute alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted January 26, 2012 Author #5 Share Posted January 26, 2012 To me orbs are dust particles, nothing else. I am a skeptic at heart and require firm proof of things to believe them. I have had several experiences/sightings with things I call ghosts, cause I have no other word for them. I don't believe they are spirits of the dead though. But now I am off topic, so no orbs to me are dust. You and I are largely of like minds, then, Spectre1979. The only difference is I believe in the possibility that ghosts are the remnants of deceased people. Some energy left behind, whatever it might be. Some ghosts might reply intelligently, meaning they can interact, while others might be nothing more than an energy left behind to replay a certain event, like a bit of film caught in a loop. But at the same time I admit that as interesting as the entire subject of ghosts and hauntings is, nothing scientifically proves their reality. Even what I wrote above about the nature of hauntings, is speculation in the end. Real orbs don't move like dust. Orbs are the first stage of a manifestation. Spirits take energy from the environment around them, and use it to show themselves either as light or heat. Your batteries may go flat, your lamps may dim, or you may feel a chill. The temperature of the room can significantly drop. The next stage up from orbs is a kind-of veil about the size of a hand. Then, there is every stage up to an opaque full-body apparition. This goes to what I just wrote above. You believe, acute alan, that orbs represent an early stage in the manifestation of spirit energy. Still, there is no empirical evidence of any kind to prove this. If there are indeed stages of development through which a spirit passes through time, there is no possible way to prove it. At the present science has not advanced to the point where any such thing can be proved, and it's possible science never will. So, in the end, any and all such statements are speculation. Opinion. I am not saying this to be disrespectful, only to clarify a point. It is what it is. That doesn't make it any less enjoyable to discuss, in my opinion. I should add that as far as my own belief on the subject of the paranormal goes, one of the best forms of evidence is EVPs. Are EVPs definitive proof? No, of course not, but they're compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acute Posted January 26, 2012 #6 Share Posted January 26, 2012 You are absolutely correct. If science had caught up by now, ghosts would not be classed as 'paranormal'! (Remember that electricity and magnetism were once the 'work of the devil'!) You are right in the post above about the 2 types of haunting. I have personally and irrefutably experienced both. (For anybody else viewing this thread....) Type 1 is a Residual Haunting. It is like a replay of an old video. It has no intelligence, it is not aware of you, and you can't interact with it. Type 2 has many names, but I call it an Active Haunting. It is intelligent, is aware of your presence, and you can interact with it, and (in some cases) identify who it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted January 26, 2012 Author #7 Share Posted January 26, 2012 You are absolutely correct. If science had caught up by now, ghosts would not be classed as 'paranormal'! (Remember that electricity and magnetism were once the 'work of the devil'!) ... LOL So true! We would be beyond the realm of the paranormal, then. It's quite possible I'm too much of a skeptic to be a good poster in the Paranormal forum. It stems from my own research background: I have to see real evidence, properly vetted, reviewed, and verified, for me to be convinced. This is mainly to do with my interests in the ancient Near East and especially pharaonic Egypt, which is why I spend almost all of my time in the Alternative History forum. But it probably affects my ability to evaluate hauntings, too. I'm a curmudgeon. I've always wished I could have a paranormal experience. I have no idea how I might react, but I'm willing to give it a try. There are probably more than a few paranormal groups here in Chicago with which I could hook up, but I really don't have the time. I work as a docent in the Egyptian galleries of two Chicago museums. I've always been tempted to leave a voice-activitated digital recorder in one of the exhibits overnight, just to see what it might "pick up." Most likely, however, a night guard would probably find it and throw it away. I've been in the exhibits many times after hours, late at night, and it's always very peaceful in there. To date, all of the mummies have been very quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acute Posted January 27, 2012 #8 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I work as a docent in the Egyptian galleries of two Chicago museums. I've always been tempted to leave a voice-activitated digital recorder in one of the exhibits overnight, just to see what it might "pick up." A snoring security guard, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegalyrae Posted January 27, 2012 #9 Share Posted January 27, 2012 my opinion on orbs.....as big into photography as I am.... to me....99% of these so called orbs I see out there are nothing more than light reflecting off of an object, be it dust, snow, rain, spiderwebs, nails, mica in a granite headstone, or even flying bugs. This is why orbs are caught when the flash is on. Now I have seen a few photos in which the object itself seems to produce it's own light, however in these pictures, the said light that is emitting from the object never casts a shadow or glow on nearby objects, nor is it visible at the time of the picture being taken, by the naked eye, yet in the photo it's extremely bright. This leads me to believe that again, it is just the flash reflecting off of an object. Now, is the object it's reflecting off of a ghost?? proof cannot be provided that it was or wasn't. For this reason, I don't count orbs as evidence of the paranormal. In my opinion, in order to make a positive claim, positive evidence for the specific claim must be presented. The absence of another explanation only means that we do not know. If there is a highly logical explanation then to me it is not of paranormal nature. If however it defies logic altogether, then yes....it's *possible* that it was paranormal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectre1979 Posted January 27, 2012 #10 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You and I are largely of like minds, then, Spectre1979. The only difference is I believe in the possibility that ghosts are the remnants of deceased people. Some energy left behind, whatever it might be. Some ghosts might reply intelligently, meaning they can interact, while others might be nothing more than an energy left behind to replay a certain event, like a bit of film caught in a loop. Well I do believe that it could be energy left behind, like an imprint of time, esp when some moment of either great or terrible moment of stress or joy has occurred. I don't entirely rule out the idea of them being spirits, it's just not my top theory. Mainly because in my experiences (and my wifes) they have never replied or even seemed to know or acknowledge that I was there... perhaps they were just rude ghosts? lol I also believe we could be seeing into another time or another dimension somehow but then those are getting even more absurd (for my brain anyway. Also the ancient mysteries/histories are my fav on here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafterman Posted January 27, 2012 #11 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Real orbs don't move like dust. Orbs are the first stage of a manifestation. Spirits take energy from the environment around them, and use it to show themselves either as light or heat. Your batteries may go flat, your lamps may dim, or you may feel a chill. The temperature of the room can significantly drop. The next stage up from orbs is a kind-of veil about the size of a hand. Then, there is every stage up to an opaque full-body apparition. Funny how there's never any photographic evidence of anything but the first stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppono Astos Posted January 27, 2012 #12 Share Posted January 27, 2012 "Orbs" - as they have become known in paranormaldom - are nothing more than image artefacts, particulates illuminated by the camera; this is empirically demonstrated/proven again and again and again. The Believers' argument relies on blind faith, not evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acute Posted January 27, 2012 #13 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Funny how there's never any photographic evidence of anything but the first stage. The next stage (what I call the veil, but I'm sure there must be a proper name for it) can be seen at 4:51+. Edited January 27, 2012 by acute alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beany Posted January 28, 2012 #14 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I've seen all kinds of orbs & light phenomena over the past 15 years. There's no evidence that they're paranormal, but there's also no rational explanation for them either. I've seen them indoors, outdoors, at night and during the day. I've seen them during a couple of native american ceremonies I participated in, as well. I don't know what they are, but they are kind of entrancing, really, and not at all scary. And they weren't followed by any paranormal activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorBites Posted January 28, 2012 #15 Share Posted January 28, 2012 "Orbs" - as they have become known in paranormaldom - are nothing more than image artefacts, particulates illuminated by the camera; this is empirically demonstrated/proven again and again and again. The Believers' argument relies on blind faith, not evidence. Quoted for Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafterman Posted January 28, 2012 #16 Share Posted January 28, 2012 The next stage (what I call the veil, but I'm sure there must be a proper name for it) can be seen at 4:51+. Yeah, we call that dust in these parts. Do you understand how digital cameras work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppono Astos Posted January 28, 2012 #17 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yeah, we call that dust in these parts. Do you understand how digital cameras work? Indeed. Curious that again the Believers' evidence is video of particulates artificially illuminated by the camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beany Posted January 28, 2012 #18 Share Posted January 28, 2012 There are those of us who have seen orbs/light phenomena in real time. the discussion about photos of orbs is not the same as a discussion about orbs themselves. Nor do the photos prove or disprove the existence of orbs. We're talking about 2 different things here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95-Nasty Posted January 28, 2012 #19 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I used to find Orbs fasinateing and was curious about them for years, ive photographed them for ages. But since being on this site, ive come to relise, that they are just dust particals in one way or another! I didnt belive the skeptics or de-bunkers at first, but on further research...... Im skeptic now! Please some one prove them all wrong! WE LOVE ORBS!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitruvian12 Posted January 28, 2012 #20 Share Posted January 28, 2012 The next stage (what I call the veil, but I'm sure there must be a proper name for it) can be seen at 4:51+. The veil you are talking about is nothing more than a flash light beam moving on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beany Posted January 29, 2012 #21 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I don't know where you live, but you might try participating in Native American ceremony, either sweat lodge or olawapu, if there're any Native Americans in your area running ceremony. I've seen orbs during both these ceremonies. Whether the orbs show up or not, you'll probably find something of value in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandcat Posted January 29, 2012 #22 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I saw what i can only describe as an orb in my house last year and it was really bizarre, there was a ball of light moving around in the house then it imploded for want of a better word, i thought at the time it was someone looking for something with a torch as it was moving around so much but it was way to bright to be a torch and it seemed to notice me when i noticed it, it was as bright as the moon at full moon and thats what i thought of when i saw it, i also thought it may have been a reflection of something but i live rural and there is nobody else about, i feel very lucky to have seen it whatever it was . (Ill also add that im very sceptical about anything i hear too) Edited January 29, 2012 by sandcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beany Posted January 29, 2012 #23 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It would be great if anyone who's ever seen orbs or other light phenomena could post an account. Maybe aggregate accounts would give us more information about them. I've seen 3 kinds myself, yours seems to be different than any of those. I've seen floating colored orbs in the jungle, occurring anywhere from about 1 foot above the ground to the treetops, only at night. I've seen buzzing/flying small pinpoints of light in various colors in my house both during the day and at night, and what appeared to be coin-shaped green lights about 3" in diameter, that never moved.The first & last I saw while living on an island in the Western Pacific, the flying pinpoints I've seen both on the island and here in California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppono Astos Posted January 29, 2012 #24 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Already posted in http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=218892 and with rational questions on their validity as actual objects, since self-illuminated BOLs refuse to be captured on camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beany Posted January 29, 2012 #25 Share Posted January 29, 2012 If they aren't actual objects, what are they? Not the photos, but the ones that have been witnessed in real time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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