Parallel "Universes"/Bizzarro Worlds do exist

[airsoftbro11]

I'm sure many of you have heard this before but I just heard it and thought it was very interesting. For this to apply, you have to believe that the universe is infinite. This hypothesis is based on the expression "even a monkey smacking away on a typewriter will recreate Shakespeare if given an unlimited amount of time". The hypothesis goes like this:

If the universe is inifinite, and the number of objects that inhabit it are infinite, then the number of galaxies are infinite, then the number of solar systems are infinite, then the number of planets are infinite. If the number of planets are infinite, then there are an infinite amount of planets with the exact same geological makeup of earth. If there are an infinite number of planets with the same geological makeup of earth, then there are an infinite number of planets that have the exact same amount of people who are genetically identical to every single person on our planet. This means there there are an infinite number of people typing this exact same message onto the exact same website using the exact same computer that I am. That also means that there are an infinite number of people exactly like me that will end this post here.

And there are an infinite number that will end it here.

And there are an infinite number that will end it here, while eating cheeetos.

That's just something I found fascinating to think about. Pretty cool eh?

Edited February 21, 2008 by airsoftbro11

[darkbreed]

Well thats how time travel works. You jump from one parallel universe to another one that is at a different time than the one you came from.

It's also interesting that there seem to exist all types of parallel universes including ones where we have parallel versions of ourselves but there are slight differences, such as some other friends, living somewhere else, or just a cat instead of a dog, or parents still married, etc.

Had a strange trip to one of those parallel dimensions myself, think i wrote about it somewhere here.

Cheers

[airsoftbro11]

I didn't mean it to sound that it's so much of a parallel universe, but simply another part of our own universe that is extremely far away (statistically, anyways). Instead of spending all of our science fiction dollars on time travel, we should work on space travel, since we know at least that much is possible

[Meltus]

I'm sure many of you have heard this before but I just heard it and thought it was very interesting. For this to apply, you have to believe that the universe is infinite. This hypothesis is based on the expression "even a monkey smacking away on a typewriter will recreate Shakespeare if given an unlimited amount of time". The hypothesis goes like this:

If the universe is inifinite, and the number of objects that inhabit it are infinite, then the number of galaxies are infinite, then the number of solar systems are infinite, then the number of planets are infinite. If the number of planets are infinite, then there are an infinite amount of planets with the exact same geological makeup of earth. If there are an infinite number of planets with the same geological makeup of earth, then there are an infinite number of planets that have the exact same amount of people who are genetically identical to every single person on our planet. This means there there are an infinite number of people typing this exact same message onto the exact same website using the exact same computer that I am. That also means that there are an infinite number of people exactly like me that will end this post here.

And there are an infinite number that will end it here.

And there are an infinite number that will end it here, while eating cheeetos.

That's just something I found fascinating to think about. Pretty cool eh?

you say "even a monkey smacking away on a typewriter will recreate Shakespeare if given an unlimited amount of time."

Who says it will recreate shakespear? It's likely to happen, but that doesn't mean that it WILL happen.

and even if there are infinite worlds with exactly the same geological makeup of earth it doesn't mean that they all contain human life or even life at all. Say if i put a billion red balls into a bag and 1 blue ball (big bag ) the chances of me picking out the blue ball at random are next to nothing, but not impossible. So, although the chances of another planet having life are almost certain, it doesn't mean that there is definatly life out there.

I'm not saying your wrong, just we'll never know for sure.

[OptimisticSkeptic]

you say "even a monkey smacking away on a typewriter will recreate Shakespeare if given an unlimited amount of time."

Who says it will recreate shakespear? It's likely to happen, but that doesn't mean that it WILL happen.

and even if there are infinite worlds with exactly the same geological makeup of earth it doesn't mean that they all contain human life or even life at all. Say if i put a billion red balls into a bag and 1 blue ball (big bag ) the chances of me picking out the blue ball at random are next to nothing, but not impossible. So, although the chances of another planet having life are almost certain, it doesn't mean that there is definatly life out there.

I'm not saying your wrong, just we'll never know for sure.

Meltus, I think you're missing the importance of the quantifier "infinite." The statement "It's likely to happen, but that doesn't mean it WILL happen" is incorrect when infinite permutations are involved. The correct statement would be, "If it's possible, given enough opportunity (either enough time for 1 permutation or enough simultaneous permutations) it MUST happen." Since we know that at least one exactly Earth-like planet exists (ours, of course!) then we know that it's existence is possible. Therefore, given an infinite number of planets, there is an infinitely large subset of those planets that are exactly like Earth, down to the last subatomic particle. Infinity is just that huge, literally "unbounded."

I'll give you an even more extreme, but factual statement: Given an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters, an infinite number of copies of Shakespeare's "Hamlet" will be produced in an infinitesimally short time span.

THAT is what Infinity can do for you. That is also what engineers and physicists who are working on quantum computing are pinning their hopes on. They hope to harness the power of an inifinite number of (virtual parallel) computers to solve well-defined, reiterative problems.

As airsoftbro11 stated, though, this all depends on the actual result of the statement, "If the universe is infinite..."

[OptimisticSkeptic]

I didn't mean it to sound that it's so much of a parallel universe, but simply another part of our own universe that is extremely far away (statistically, anyways). Instead of spending all of our science fiction dollars on time travel, we should work on space travel, since we know at least that much is possible

If the universe is infinite, and it's expansion is universally accellerating (highly probable based on recent observations,) then there is only a finite volume that is within timelike reach of where any observer can be located. The end effect is that for any observer there is a "bubble" universe that is, in some respects, a blackhole cut off from the rest of the universe. Light simply cannot travel to points in another "bubble" because all of the surrounding bubbles are receding faster than the speed of light. In effect, this could be how "parallel universes" come into being without the problems of occupying the same region of spacetime in some spooky virtual state. The speed of light quarantines every point in the universe, so that information from any point can only reach a finite number of other points.

[analog_warrior]

Infinate doesn't have to mean INFINATE. It only has to mean that planets and galexies are constantly being created.

[OptimisticSkeptic]

Infinate doesn't have to mean INFINATE.

Huh??? I must just be dense. If it doesn't mean infinite, then by definition, isn't it finite? Which is not infinite?

It only has to mean that planets and galexies are constantly being created.

In that case, we're talking about the universe being infinitely prolonged, with ongoing mass and energy creation. Therefore, at any give time the universe is finite, but over all possible times (the full spacetime continuum) the universe is infinite.

I'm not pushing the point, though, because I don't believe our singular universe is infinite. I believe it could be one slice of an infinite multiverse, though. Separate topic.

Edit: Need to stop proofreading AFTER I post.

Edited February 21, 2008 by OptimisticSkeptic

[Ashyne]

mathematical probability states that there is always a chance of this happening, however small, because of the vastness of the universe and of similar conditions throughout the universe. if the universe is infinite, and the experiment is tried over n over again, one day an exact replica of human society will be created. this could take countless experiments though, too many for anyone to count.

[vef3oh]

I have heard that though the universe may be infinite, the amount of matter in it is not.

[Showgirl]

I'll give you an even more extreme, but factual statement: Given an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters, an infinite number of copies of Shakespeare's "Hamlet" will be produced in an infinitesimally short time span.

Hi Os. that's coz Hamlet is finite whereas the 'contraints' are infinite. yes ?

I have heard that though the universe may be infinite, the amount of matter in it is not.

this is what i tend to believe is the case. i kinda dont think there are any other universes other than the one we're in. which means if there's finite planets, then a finite number of monkeys which in turn makes the infinite monkeys scenario impossible, huh Os ?

love Min xx

[TheDreamer]

First of all, the universe IS infinite. Always has been since the first thought. The thought became a vibration and the vibration became a "string". This string creates existence as we now sense it.

My belief is that a "being" did create everything, but with a thought...a thought that was neither negative nor positive. As long as we exist and perceive to exist, then our negative and positive energies in turn keep us connected to our reality.

So yes, there are an infinite amount of universes but not every universe is the same, just variations. Variations of the first model, the beginning...the first thought.

So every time you think about what might happen, is now possible because of you.

FREE WILL

[airsoftbro11]

Hi Os. that's coz Hamlet is finite whereas the 'contraints' are infinite. yes ?

this is what i tend to believe is the case. i kinda dont think there are any other universes other than the one we're in. which means if there's finite planets, then a finite number of monkeys which in turn makes the infinite monkeys scenario impossible, huh Os ?

love Min xx

By definition, the universe is all-encompassing, so there can't be multiple universes.

[OptimisticSkeptic]

Hi Os. that's coz Hamlet is finite whereas the 'contraints' are infinite. yes ?

Perzactly. The interesting part is the "infinitesimally short time" because there is a chance, although very improbable, that as the paper "materializes" in this monkey/typewriter/paper filled universe, it will already have an exact version of Hamlet on it. Since we have an infinite number of pages in this monkeyverse, that means an infinitely large subset of instant Hamlet.

this is what i tend to believe is the case. i kinda dont think there are any other universes other than the one we're in. which means if there's finite planets, then a finite number of monkeys which in turn makes the infinite monkeys scenario impossible, huh Os ?

love Min xx

I tend to agree, but I think of "particles" instead of worlds. You could still have multiple exact copies given enough particles and/or time, but it gets more and more improbable as the total size of either time or particles gets smaller.

[Mad Cow]

The concept of Time is definitely bizarre, and will never be fully understood. Is it infinite? Is it an illusion? The concept will leave us with rhetorical questions until doomsday.

Can Time be manipulated? Anything is possible. I believe in the process of time traveling, but I think it'll take several thousands of years before it's perfected. Maybe Time is a concept of God. Maybe God is Time.

[Mr.Dot]

The thing is, nothing is infinite, everything must have limits to exist.

[airsoftbro11]

The thing is, nothing is infinite, everything must have limits to exist.

That's definitely not true. We have infinite numbers all the time. If we ask a computer to calculate the digits of pi, it will do so for all of eternity until it is interrupted by an outside force.

Time must also be infinite, because if it weren't, there would eventually be a point where there is no existence, which is also impossible.

The lifespan of energy and matter is also infinite, since they cannot be created or destroyed.

[Mr.Dot]

That's definitely not true. We have infinite numbers all the time. If we ask a computer to calculate the digits of pi, it will do so for all of eternity until it is interrupted by an outside force.

Time must also be infinite, because if it weren't, there would eventually be a point where there is no existence, which is also impossible.

The lifespan of energy and matter is also infinite, since they cannot be created or destroyed.

PI is just a mathematical problem that cannot be solved by a computer today or our mathematical standards. For however long a computer tries to solve it, it will never reach infinite, NEVER! Every time you check, the computer will be on a serten numbers of PI, never on a infinite numbers of PI, Infinite is just something humans invented and dosen't exists in reality.

And I believe time exists in a constant multiverse. Which is limited but amazingly big.

[airsoftbro11]

PI is just a mathematical problem that cannot be solved by a computer today or our mathematical standards. For however long a computer tries to solve it, it will never reach infinite, NEVER! Every time you check, the computer will be on a serten numbers of PI, never on a infinite numbers of PI, Infinite is just something humans invented and dosen't exists in reality.

And I believe time exists in a constant multiverse. Which is limited but amazingly big.

Pi is not a problem, it is the result of a problem. I forgot exactly what it is, but it's something like the circumference of a perfect circle divided by its radius.

Of course a computer can't reach infinite. Infinity has no end, therefore nothing can "reach" it. A computer calculating the digits of pie will NEVER finish its job, no matter how fast it can process or how long it goes for. This means that pi is infinite; it has no end.

I'm not sure what you mean by a constant multiverse, but time is definitely infinite. There can not be an end to time, or a beginning. Even if it is "amazingly big", that would still mean it has an end. It does not.

How can you claim to know that there is nothing that is infinite? The only way to know that to be true is to have infinite knowledge, which would therefore prove your hypothesis wrong.

[Mr.Dot]

PI is not infinite, it will always be as long as you make it. You just imagining that it will be infinite long if you count it for a infinite long time, but in reality theres nothing here that is infinite, your just creating this thought of it which is not infinite itself. You have to be materialistic.

How can I claim? Well, then the same thing goes for claiming that there is something that is infinite. But the thing is, im not the one that should prove something here.

Edited February 25, 2008 by Mr.Dot

[airsoftbro11]

PI is not infinite, it will always be as long as you make it. You just imagining that it will be infinite long if you count it for a infinite long time, but in reality theres nothing here that is infinite, your just creating this thought of it which is not infinite itself. You have to be materialistic.

How can I claim? Well, then the same thing goes for claiming that there is something that is infinite. But the thing is, im not the one that should prove something here.

I'm not going to call you an idiot.

[Sempervirens]

Can Time be manipulated? Anything is possible. I believe in the process of time traveling, but I think it'll take several thousands of years before it's perfected. Maybe Time is a concept of God. Maybe God is Time.

If anything is possible - and I wholeheartedly agree with that - it should be possible now.

Unless, of course, you are waiting for a "machine" or some other technological device to displace oneself through time (however illusory it may be).

(Personally, I don't believe it's necessary, or even desirable, and have very little interest in the subject of "time machines".)

In that case, you may want to remember this:

On Oct. 9, 1903, the New York Times wrote:

“The flying machine which will really fly might be evolved by the combined and continuous efforts of mathematicians and mechanicians in from one million to ten million years.”

On the same day, on Kill Devil Hill, N.C., in his diary, a bicycle mechanic named Orville Wright wrote:

“We unpacked rest of goods for new machine.”

In fact, I am so sure you are familiar with it that I am not even citing the source(s).

Still, it bears repeating.

(and I always do so with gusto )

[OptimisticSkeptic]

I'm not going to call you an idiot.

I won't either, but I will point out how incredibly arrogant it is to put finite limits on the universe in such an arbitrary way, when we have solid theoretical and mathematical models that require infinities to be real, and produce many of the things we surround ourselves with. They wouldn't work if it were not for infinities, so I guess they just work because we have convinced ourselves that they will!

Wait, doesn't that belong in the "Reality is an illusion" thread????

OS

[Mr.Dot]

I won't either, but I will point out how incredibly arrogant it is to put finite limits on the universe in such an arbitrary way, when we have solid theoretical and mathematical models that require infinities to be real, and produce many of the things we surround ourselves with. They wouldn't work if it were not for infinities, so I guess they just work because we have convinced ourselves that they will!

Wait, doesn't that belong in the "Reality is an illusion" thread????

OS

I dont expect someone like you to understand. But you can however not create something infinite with mathematical terms, you are just illustrating the ide of infinite by making mathematical calculations, symbols that we have given meaning to. But those calculations are in reality particles in a certain order with limited numbers and those mathematical symbols and rules dosen't all apply to the real world.

I dont believe in the concept of infinite.

Edited February 25, 2008 by Mr.Dot

[airsoftbro11]

I dont expect someone like you to understand. But you can however not create something infinite with mathematical terms, you are just illustrating the ide of infinite by making mathematical calculations, symbols that we have given meaning to. But those calculations are in reality particles in a certain order with limited numbers and those mathematical symbols and rules dosen't all apply to the real world.

I dont believe in the concept of infinite.

No credible person in the history of time has disproven, or come close to disproving the concept of infinity. Are you saying that you know more about physics/mathematics than every single person in history? Even Albert Einstein never doubted infinity. Are you smarter than Einstein?

For your sake, I hope the answer to those questions are yes, because the alternative is that you are, in fact, a moron.