591 replies to this topic

[Ben Masada]

Reann, on 24 January 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Dreams are not always mere dreams...What do you mean, or are you able to explain what you mean in the cross thing that you're trying to suggest about Christ ? Like, where do you get that notion about his will to do so? I recall him saying that The Father and him are one. I don't just look at Christ as though he had no feelings,  that's sort of the feel i get from your decription of his experience.As if he should  of  just wanted to have gone as though looking so forward to it and   receive that brutal punishment and all , and just die a horrific and terrorizing death....No , I know he knew what was to be. I think it was painful though for him to even face the thought of leaving his Mother and everyone else . I think it was more painful in one sense for him to face leaving this world because he loved everyone  more so than giving up his self. Isn't the most powerful thing one  can ever do in life   is to give  of ourselves completley so that somehow a deeper understanding gets through to the masses? maybe i'm not explaining it exactly but I get it where it matters most .

The notion I am trying to convey about Jesus, I get from his experience in the Gethsemani just prior to being arrested. He prayed three times asking the Lord to take away the cup of the cross from him without his having to drink from it. He meant to say that it was not his will. "Thy will be done but not mine." So, what was Jesus' will? He simply could not walk the "Via Dolorosa;" that's all.
It means he went to the cross against his will. Therefore, why preach around that willingly he put down his life for all of us? All am saying is down in Mat. 26:38,39; Mark 14:36; and Luke 22:42.

Last but not least, I wonder why exaggerate what Jesus went through when millions of Jews during the Holocaust suffered worse and longer than just a few hours. Besides, according to Josephus, the Romans crucified thousands of Jews only in the First Century. I hope you don't think that Jesus was the only Jew crucified by the Romans.

Ben

[Ben Masada]

scowl, on 24 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

You've never heard of "anger management"? No, it's not a metaphor.

I don't know what you are talking about but, whatever it be, anger is also an emotion. In God yes, it is indeed metaphorical. God is not like a man to get angry at another. (Num. 23:19)

Ben

[Hawkin]

Bling, on 12 October 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

I love the way the bible contradicts itself as it adds to the argument I have that it was not inspired by God but written by storytellers.

Here's a good example:

Has anyone seen God?

• John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time."
  
• Exodus 33:20 "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."
  
• John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God [Jesus], he hath seen the Father."
  
• I John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time."

  vs

• Genesis 32:30 "For I have seen God face to face."
  
• Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."
  
• Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."
  
• Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."

Possible Source for more information

I love the way people contradict themselves by telling children that Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy exist
then a few years later say, No They Don't.

[Beckys_Mom]

Mag357, on 26 January 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

I love the way people contradict themselves by telling children that Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy exist
then a few years later say, No They Don't.

It called allowing children to have a childhood.. Its what childhood is about..  It is harmless  I used to believe in those things too, when I found out later as a child they were not real, it didn't bother me.. I  still looked forward to Christmas and Easter ..

[Order66]

Beckys_Mom, on 27 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

It called allowing children to have a childhood.. Its what childhood is about..  It is harmless  I used to believe in those things too, when I found out later as a child they were not real

[Hawkin]

Beckys_Mom, on 27 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

It called allowing children to have a childhood.. Its what childhood is about..  It is harmless  I used to believe in those things too, when I found out later as a child they were not real, it didn't bother me.. I  still looked forward to Christmas and Easter ..

When a child is brought into the world they don't know of the existence these characters, The same with Jesus or God. It's a taught thing by adults.
It's really more for the adults entertainment then the kids. A child can enjoy these holidays and still have a childhood by telling them the true meaning.
If you scold your child for ever lying to you, be careful, they might respond by saying...Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy.

[srd44]

If you're interested in following contraditions, I post them daily, and explain them using source-critical and historical-critical emthods. Is Yahweh and El the same god or different god? is today's contradition. The various texts that now make u p what later generation of readers labeled as "the Bible" answers affirmatively to both. contradictionsinthebible.com

[Hawkin]

Well who knows. Maybe 2000 years from now there will be this big thick book talking about a big fat man in a red suit or a rabbit with eggs
and a girl with wings, lets also include the man that sprinkles sand in your eyes to make you sleep (sandman). Anyway a lot of people
will think it was once all true because the big thick book spoke of it.

[Beckys_Mom]

Mag357, on 27 January 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

When a child is brought into the world they don't know of the existence these characters, The same with Jesus or God. It's a taught thing by adults.
It's really more for the adults entertainment then the kids. A child can enjoy these holidays and still have a childhood by telling them the true meaning.
If you scold your child for ever lying to you, be careful, they might respond by saying...Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy.

Nah she wont.. I know I didn't.. We never mentioned the Easter Bunny though, but the tooth fairy and Santa, that only lasts for a few years and then its over.. I let them enjoy it while they can...All harmless.

[sussexontheriver]

Arbitran, on 13 October 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Hell, try to reconcile Genesis chapters 1 and 2. Some of the biggest contradictions in the book are between the first two chapters.

I will do that for you. Genesis Chapter 1 is in Chronological order whereas Chapter 2 is in Story form, truly they still the same thing, just Chapter 2 is out of order since that author did it that way. NEXT!

[Hawkin]

Beckys_Mom, on 27 January 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Nah she wont.. I know I didn't.. We never mentioned the Easter Bunny though, but the tooth fairy and Santa, that only lasts for a few years and then its over.. I let them enjoy it while they can...All harmless.

But yet when it comes to the bible and the characters in it people try to discredit it by saying those characters never existed
even though there isn't any concrete proof otherwise. Maybe back then people where lying to their kids.

[Rlyeh]

sussexontheriver, on 27 January 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

I will do that for you. Genesis Chapter 1 is in Chronological order whereas Chapter 2 is in Story form, truly they still the same thing, just Chapter 2 is out of order since that author did it that way. NEXT!

They are the same thing, a work of fiction.

[Beckys_Mom]

Mag357, on 28 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

But yet when it comes to the bible and the characters in it people try to discredit it by saying those characters never existed
even though there isn't any concrete proof otherwise. Maybe back then people where lying to their kids.

Its a different kind of lying ...When you tell your child about santa, it is adding the magic to her Christmas.. It makes me feel good when she writes her letters.. When she finds there is none, she wont care as much, she will be older and a bit wiser  by then  and she will understand the harmless behind it.. I did and millions of others did too..  There is also the lying that you use to prevent others from feeling hurt..

I personally do not hold beliefs in the bible.. But the difference for me was - My parents tried to get me to believe as much as possible and this was put out as truth for the rest of my days... The difference is, you cannot prove these characters did not exist, so you cannot prove if people are lying about them..  Christians put this out as a fact and not in the same way as tales told about Santa .... That is a lot different from santa or a tooth fairy ..

I may no longer hold beliefs in the bible, but I do not force any of that on to my daughter  ...I will allow her to learn all about it and later make her own mind up.. It's the better option..I will do the same with little Aaron    The only thing I do not allow her to believe  in is creationism...She is keen on science and is learning a lot about our planet and the universe...But she only gets that education here at home, not at the christian school she attends ....She still believes in god but thinks god started it all..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 28 January 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[Ben Masada]

Crikey, on 26 January 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

I assume you're Jewish mate which is why you prefer to think that doesn't refer to Jesus? If you care to glance at more of Isaiah ch 53 you'll see that the prophecy continues at considerable length, and leaves no doubt whatsoever that Isaiah was talking about Jesus-

"He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him, He was despised and rejected by mankind, Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, But he was pierced for our transgressions, and by his wounds we are healed. the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; for the transgression of my people he was punished. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, though he had done no violence,nor was any deceit in his mouth. For he bore the sin of many..."

No Crikey, it is not because I am Jewish but because Jesus was a Jewish learnt man to know more than that the Prophet was not speaking about an individual Messiah but the collective one in Israel. BTW, it does not take a genius to figure that the Prophet is talking about the Suffering Servant which he mentions him by name, if you read Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; and 45:4. And last but not least, if you read Psalm 44:11-26, you will have it all. Christians have no difficulties seeing Jesus in Isaiah 53 because of the influence caused by the Christian preconceived notion concept.

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada, 28 January 2013 - 06:12 PM.

[Ben Masada]

Crikey, on 26 January 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Firstly, Jonah received word from God that he wanted him to be a prophet. that word may have come in a dream, but then he woke up and ran away in terror-
"The word of the Lord came to Jonah son of Amittai: “Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me.”
But Jonah ran away from the Lord and headed for Tarshish"...

Secondly, Jesus knew all along that he was going to die, for example when he and his disciples approached Jerusalem he said "they're going to kill me in there" but he still went in.(Matt 20:18)
In the dead of night in Gethsemane when his disciples fell asleep he was racked with loneliness, so no wonder he asked God to remove the bitter cup from him.
But as Paranoid Android pointed out, he didn't want to die but still said to God -but if it is what you want then so shall it be.

PS- And to those who say the Bible has been edited, censored and prettied up over the centuries to make it look good, why didn't the translators say "Quick, cut out that bit where Jesus asks God to remove the bitter cup, it makes him look too weak and human!"
The fact that nobody cut it out just proves once again that the Bible can be trusted to give us the true story without any editing..

Do you know something Crikey? I agree with you about the "cut it out" Church policy to prevent a spiritually weak Jesus. The name is pious forgery. This was very common in the 4th Century just prior to the approval of the NT Canon. I believe that the same thing was done to make Jesus a bachelor for life. The "son of God" could not be looked at as a married man getting his jollies just like the rest of us. You are on the right track.

Ben