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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#4141    The Puzzler

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:53 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 21 June 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

It is how things were in ancient society , the king owned the land and he rented it out to the aristocracy at a monetary price and tythe of produce, and for a promise (oath if you like ) that a certain number of soldiers could be relied on to be supplied by that Baron,Duke , Earl whatever ,That is where the Hundreds came from before Counties ( although county is probably related , to a count of how many warriors you had to produce from your tennants in times of war) and hundreds were the same the land was divided up , and each area had to produce 100 warriors when called upon...........these warrior/tennants could be called your friends sarcastically, but they really were only your friends because they were given the use of the land,and gave an oath to defend it .

this may have been even more relevant to the Fris who came back from India , Indian Kings paid the Ksatriyas to be a standing army their job was not to plough the land , or to be priests , but purely to be expert/ trained in all forms of warfare...........You know all this already Abe , why are you being so adamant on it .
Well I hear you.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4142    The Puzzler

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:10 AM

I showed this a few posts back, but how ironic - that if the oath is Atha in Athens and therefore possibly Athena, it's this concept that Athenian democracy is based on...

Greek tradition c.400 BCE

Walter Burkert has shown that since Lycurgus of Athens (d. 324 BCE), who held that "it is the oath which holds democracy together", religion, morality and political organization had been linked by the oath, and the oath and its prerequisite altar had become the basis of both civil and criminal, as well as international law.Burkert, Greek Religion, trans. Raffan, Harvard University Press (1985), 250ff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4143    Abramelin

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:06 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 22 June 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

OK, I showed you êth 200 und häufiger, âth, ê-th, â-th, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Eid; ne. oath

âth, ê-th, â-th

That's not "âtha". This is not about some 'oath', but about friends, compadres, comrades, pals, buddies.

People you like, love and trust for what they are, not people who have to swear they'll be loyal to you.


#4144    Abramelin

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:15 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 21 June 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

It is how things were in ancient society , the king owned the land and he rented it out to the aristocracy at a monetary price and tythe of produce, and for a promise (oath if you like ) that a certain number of soldiers could be relied on to be supplied by that Baron,Duke , Earl whatever ,That is where the Hundreds came from before Counties ( although county is probably related , to a count of how many warriors you had to produce from your tennants in times of war) and hundreds were the same the land was divided up , and each area had to produce 100 warriors when called upon...........these warrior/tennants could be called your friends sarcastically, but they really were only your friends because they were given the use of the land,and gave an oath to defend it .

this may have been even more relevant to the Fris who came back from India , Indian Kings paid the Ksatriyas to be a standing army their job was not to plough the land , or to be priests , but purely to be expert/ trained in all forms of warfare...........You know all this already Abe , why are you being so adamant on it .

Because the OLB suggests a different explanation, and we are here discussing the OLB.

The OLB "atha" doesn't suggest anything to do with some 'oath'.



7. Lêt maen hja aefternêi hlâpa, sâ lêt maen thaet mith welhêd thrvch tha fâmna dva, til thju wi âtha aend frjunda winna fori lêtha aend fyandun.
7. If they are afterwards set free, it must be done with kindness by the maidens, in order that we may make them comrades and friends, instead of haters and enemies.

"âtha " is the opposite of 'haters', What does that have to do with some oath?

Or this:

Vppa rêd Minervas waerth hju Athenia heten: hwand sêide hju, tha aefter kvmand agon to wêtane, that wi hir navt thrvch lest ner weld kvmen send, men lik âtha vntfongen.
By the advice of Min-erva it was called Athens, because, she said, those who come after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends.

You see any hint to some 'oath' in that quote?

I don't.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 June 2013 - 06:30 PM.


#4145    Othar Winis

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:03 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 22 June 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

7. Lêt maen hja aefternêi hlâpa, sâ lêt maen thaet mith welhêd thrvch tha fâmna dva, til thju wi âtha aend frjunda winna fori lêtha aend fyandun.
7. If they are afterwards set free, it must be done with kindness by the maidens, in order that we may make them comrades and friends, instead of haters and enemies.


I'd suggest "allies and friends" here.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#4146    Abramelin

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:12 PM

View Postgestur, on 23 June 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

[/size]

I'd suggest "allies and friends" here.

Yeah, that's better.

But now again about that word, "salt-atha".

"Friends of the salt", or maybe "allies of the salt" is nonsense, agreed?

My point is that someone tried to fabricate an etymology for the (Dutch) word "soldaat" (soldier), but failed.


#4147    Othar Winis

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:23 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 June 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

"Friends of the salt", or maybe "allies of the salt" is nonsense, agreed?

I'd just say "salt-allies" and don't think that's nonsense in the context.

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#4148    Abramelin

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:48 PM

View Postgestur, on 23 June 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

[/size]
I'd just say "salt-allies" and don't think that's nonsense in the context.

Really? Salt Allies?

Think about it for some time, and then you'll realize it's nothing but a nonsense folk-etymology.


#4149    lilthor

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:51 PM

The words 'salt' and 'solid' may share etymological origin.

'Solid-allies' makes sense


Edited by lilthor, 23 June 2013 - 04:59 PM.


#4150    Othar Winis

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 05:24 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 June 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Think about it for some time, and then you'll realize it's nothing but a nonsense folk-etymology.

allies-paid-in-salt

I have seen mainstream (oldschool) etymologies that make less sense.

Your "friends of the salt" is misleading.
Would you transalte "wapenbroeders" (brothers in arms; 'weaponbrothers') as "brothers of the weapons"?

And even if it is a 'folk-etymology', it can be a thousands-years old one.

It would not prove OLB to be a hoax.

Edited by gestur, 23 June 2013 - 05:30 PM.

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#4151    Van Gorp

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 05:42 PM

I think salt-oath-allies go hand in hand, so not that crazy.
Look at 'zoutverbond' (covenant of the salt), salt as representation also in early times for unbreakable friend/partnership (use of salt in the sealing of an oath).

The purifying properties made ​​it a symbol of unbreakable faith and for that reason oaths, sometimes called 'zoutverbonden' (covenant of salt).

Salt Covenant
Unbreakable covenant.

Salt was in the time of the Old Testament an important matter of high symbolic value. A covenant sealed by the use of salt, was considered unbreakable. The sacrifice had every oblation be salted. For centuries it were as precious salt as a sign for ratification or confirmation of the sustainable or sacred character of a covenant (friendship) relationship, oath, etc. Since ancient salt was a means of payment (cf. pay (sold = salt), the wages of a soldier ). In our time, the exploitation of salt become so cheap that salt has dismissed as payment.

http://www.bijbelenc.../19/zoutverbond

Edited by Van Gorp, 23 June 2013 - 05:50 PM.


#4152    Van Gorp

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:04 PM

I found this quote about salt covenants:

Entering into a Covenant of Salt means binding oneself to another in utmost loyalty and truthfulness, even suffering death, rather than breaking the covenant.

Pretty much inline with the description for the Soldurii by Caesar.


#4153    Abramelin

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:06 PM

View Postgestur, on 23 June 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

allies-paid-in-salt

I have seen mainstream (oldschool) etymologies that make less sense.

Your "friends of the salt" is misleading.
Would you transalte "wapenbroeders" (brothers in arms; 'weaponbrothers') as "brothers of the weapons"?

And even if it is a 'folk-etymology', it can be a thousands-years old one.

It would not prove OLB to be a hoax.

If it was folk-etymology to explain a foreign (Roman/Latin) word, it would be no more than a 2000 years old or less.

=

My "friends of the salt" or "salt friends" may be misleading, but that is the literal translation you are bound to get when you use the OLB language.

=

Your example, "wapenbroeders", could be literally translated into "arms brothers". But whatever you make of it, it would be close to the correct translation "brothers in arms" . I think that someone whose first language is English would immediately understand what you meant.

But "salt friends"....??


.

Edited by Abramelin, 23 June 2013 - 10:39 PM.


#4154    Abramelin

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:14 PM

View PostVan Gorp, on 23 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

I think salt-oath-allies go hand in hand, so not that crazy.
Look at 'zoutverbond' (covenant of the salt), salt as representation also in early times for unbreakable friend/partnership (use of salt in the sealing of an oath).

The purifying properties made ​​it a symbol of unbreakable faith and for that reason oaths, sometimes called 'zoutverbonden' (covenant of salt).

Salt Covenant
Unbreakable covenant.

Salt was in the time of the Old Testament an important matter of high symbolic value. A covenant sealed by the use of salt, was considered unbreakable. The sacrifice had every oblation be salted. For centuries it were as precious salt as a sign for ratification or confirmation of the sustainable or sacred character of a covenant (friendship) relationship, oath, etc. Since ancient salt was a means of payment (cf. pay (sold = salt), the wages of a soldier ). In our time, the exploitation of salt become so cheap that salt has dismissed as payment.

http://www.bijbelenc.../19/zoutverbond

When you consider what the OLB tells us about "atha" (see my quotes from the OLB), it could only mean 'friends', or 'pals', or 'buddies, and so on.

I do know salt was an important trade item in the old times, and I also know that the one trying to make the word "salt-atha" look Old Frisian by giving it an Old Frisian twist was having a bit of fun, lol.


#4155    The Puzzler

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:04 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 June 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

If it was folk-etymology to explain a foreign (Roman/Latin) word, it would be no more than a 2000 years old or less.

=

My "friends of the salt" or "salt friends" may be misleading, but that is the literal translation you are bound to get when you use the OLB language.

=




.
No, that is what you're bound to get by using the TRANSLATION.

The word 'friends' is in the OLB and it's not atha.

atha is another word, maybe not in use anymore, also like salt-atha - so a close translational word was given, friends.

allies is good imo. Your friend under oath. A friend by way of an oath to each other. salt-allies = men paid in salt to work for you in service, to be your allies.


It appears to me to be a word in it's own right, atha and salt-atha, that was based on the word oath (become a friend/allies) and has fallen out of use.

Edited by The Puzzler, 24 June 2013 - 01:08 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...




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