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Shattering the Myths of Darwin's Theory


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#151    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:55 PM

1.DNA is chemical that works in envoirment, so I wonder what organism gene would build on different envorionment? On another planet.
2.What also is mysterious how some simple lifes like rice plant have more genes then complexed life forms like humans?
3.What is for junk DNA? I heard about fish that dont have junk DNA...
4.Also I heard that on some condition we can speed up evoultion?
5.And most interesting to me is that there is one animal that lived in octopus kidney and we know that animal came from much complexed animal. Devolution?
6.How genes know how to build organism?
7. Do any of you biologists here know concept of Gaia theory? If so what is your opinion on it.

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#152    g00dfella

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:11 PM

jeeez...at this rate L, you will have 10k post in a couple of days...you seem to ignore a lot of info


#153    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:47 PM

View Postg00dfella, on 16 December 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

jeeez...at this rate L, you will have 10k post in a couple of days...you seem to ignore a lot of info

Whats wrong in writting?  This is called forum. And people wrote here. :st Dont worry about number of posts. Do you count? Make statistic? I have more free time then usualy so thats main reason of huge amount of my posts.

On second part of your post I must said that I dont follow you. Please show me what I ignored.

So far you should learnt that things arent what it seems to be. :yes:

Or you are simply against forums, and raising questions? Are you for suppression? Im not.

Edited by the L, 16 December 2012 - 11:06 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#154    Sean93

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:00 AM

This puts me in mind of that time when these creationist's 'found' Noah's Ark and said that through carbon dating it was shown that the wood was 4000 years old.

So when science shows the age of the Earth that contradicts their view, they say the carbon dating is flawed but likewise, when it 'proves' or 'supports' their biblical story, they endorse it...

The Flu is one of the most common examples of evolution - it is constantly adapting and changing every year to deal with new anti-viral's; plants and pesticides is another example.

Evolution is a fact because there is hard proof for it and it is observable, humans appearing from the ground a few thousand years ago isn't; sure all life began mysteriously, but over millions of years and 99% of all life that ever was is now gone - survival of the fittest.

And for the bull**** argument of "well there are still apes about so why aren't they evolving??"
Well that's because A- Evolution takes a LONG time and B- many factors decide the evolution of a species, one of them environment and it's safe to say that a change of environment for a number of apes, a change of lifestyle and so on so forth would (slowly) lead to their change, eventually leading to the discovery of fire and in effect, the ability to cook food and gain better nourishment which worked wonders for our bodies and brains, leading to increased intelligence and so on.

4.Also I heard that on some condition we can speed up evoultion?
For you.
http://news.national...-evolution.html

Edited by Sean93, 17 December 2012 - 03:07 AM.

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#155    Rlyeh

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:09 AM

View Postthe L, on 16 December 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

5.And most interesting to me is that there is one animal that lived in octopus kidney and we know that animal came from much complexed animal. Devolution?
No such thing.


#156    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

View PostSean93, on 17 December 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

This puts me in mind of that time when these creationist's 'found' Noah's Ark and said that through carbon dating it was shown that the wood was 4000 years old.

So when science shows the age of the Earth that contradicts their view, they say the carbon dating is flawed but likewise, when it 'proves' or 'supports' their biblical story, they endorse it...

The Flu is one of the most common examples of evolution - it is constantly adapting and changing every year to deal with new anti-viral's; plants and pesticides is another example.

Evolution is a fact because there is hard proof for it and it is observable, humans appearing from the ground a few thousand years ago isn't; sure all life began mysteriously, but over millions of years and 99% of all life that ever was is now gone - survival of the fittest.

And for the bull**** argument of "well there are still apes about so why aren't they evolving??"
Well that's because A- Evolution takes a LONG time and B- many factors decide the evolution of a species, one of them environment and it's safe to say that a change of environment for a number of apes, a change of lifestyle and so on so forth would (slowly) lead to their change, eventually leading to the discovery of fire and in effect, the ability to cook food and gain better nourishment which worked wonders for our bodies and brains, leading to increased intelligence and so on.

4.Also I heard that on some condition we can speed up evoultion?
For you.
http://news.national...-evolution.html

No better place on earth as Croatian islands. Trust me.
But article doesnt explain how and why it happens.

View PostRlyeh, on 17 December 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

No such thing.
Animal that live in kidney or devolution?

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#157    Rlyeh

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:13 PM

View Postthe L, on 17 December 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Animal that live in kidney or devolution?
Devolution. Evolution is the genetic change in populations of organisms over generations.


#158    Emma_Acid

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:12 PM

View Postthe L, on 16 December 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

1.DNA is chemical that works in envoirment, so I wonder what organism gene would build on different envorionment? On another planet.
2.What also is mysterious how some simple lifes like rice plant have more genes then complexed life forms like humans?
3.What is for junk DNA? I heard about fish that dont have junk DNA...
4.Also I heard that on some condition we can speed up evoultion?
5.And most interesting to me is that there is one animal that lived in octopus kidney and we know that animal came from much complexed animal. Devolution?
6.How genes know how to build organism?
7. Do any of you biologists here know concept of Gaia theory? If so what is your opinion on it.

1. We have a sample pool of one to work with, so we don't know what the alien equivalent of DNA would be.
2. Not really mysterious, no. Rice is actually very small, genome-wise, when compared to other things like corn and wheat. Why is it larger than humans? Probably because its been around for longer.
3. Right. Did you do any research on the "fish with no junk DNA"? Or did you just blindly accept something you wrote without reading any further into it? And what does junk DNA really have to do with anything? Over a huge stretch of evolutionary time, some DNA will become unneeded. Plus I'm willing to bet a large amount of what we write off as "junk" actually isn't.
4. Well, yeah. We drastically affected the evolution of wolves when we bred dogs.
5. No such thing as devolution. Again, do you have a name for this mysterious octopus-dwelling animal and research that it used to be "much more complex" (a dangerously nebulous term).
6. Do the research yourself. This is pretty well understood, and the info is out there.
7. Gaia hypothesis has no effect on evolutionary theory.

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#159    Abramelin

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:42 PM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 17 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:


5. No such thing as devolution. Again, do you have a name for this mysterious octopus-dwelling animal and research that it used to be "much more complex" (a dangerously nebulous term).


Didn't know about that either, but I think this is meant:

Rhombozoans, sometimes called Dicyemida in some older texts are parasites of cephalopods (Octopus and Squid), they live in the animals kidneys. Rhombozoans have a more complicated life cycle. Their basic body plan is a long thin central cell, called an axial or tube cell, surrounded by a coat of smaller ciliated cells which are arranged spirally around the axial cell. Some authors equate this with a two cell-layer body plan.

http://www.earthlife...ts/mesozoa.html


#160    redhen

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:08 PM

View Postthe L, on 24 September 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

You are the first one that bring bible and creationism in thread.

Just an observation. You did not post this video debunking Darwin in the Nature or Environment sub-forums, you posted it under Spirituality vs Skepticism. Therefore it seems like you are asking a theological question. I don't know what or any religion you have (do you worship Osiris?) but if Darwin was wrong, and special creation is correct then that leaves a big theological problem. Why would an omnibenevolent God purposefully create things like the ebola virus or carnivores in general?

This question has been around for thousands of years and we still do not have an acceptable answer. Darwin was disturbed by the implication of millions of years of pain, suffering and death that macro-evolution entailed, but published his findings nonetheless.


#161    Doug1o29

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

View PostRyu, on 23 September 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

At first the video seems to sound interesting in that our methods of carbon and radioactive testing is not always accurate. I suppose even radioactivity can only go so far.
Carbon dating is currently reliable to about 40,000 years.  There are efforts under way to extent that to about 60,000 years, but it hasn't been accomplished, yet.  At 11,600 years BP (the end of the Younger Dryas), it is accurate to +/- 300 years.  40,000 years is the Yarmouth Interglacial, so we can only reach about halfway through the Great Ice Age.

I have used carbon dating on soil profiles.  They weren't very old, only dating back a little over 400 years - at that short a time span, the error is only two or three years.

When you have tree rings available, they are accurate to the year and sometimes we can even tell the date of a storm to within a few weeks.  They're the way to go, if you can get them.  The oldest series obtained from one tree goes back 5300 years.  The oldest tree ring single-species chronologies are the Methusaleh Walk and White Mountain bristlecone chronologies which reach back 8400 years.  The European oak chrnonlogy reaches back 17,000 years - into the ice age and only about 2000 years shy of the Last glacial Maximum.

BTW:  The Church of the Nativity has been ring-dated.  Every single one of the dates was between about 1030 and 1430.  But don't fret - the church underwent extensive repair and renovation in those years, so the ring-dates were all from the repairs, not the originals.

The bristlecones show a climate disturbance in 2807 - 2802 BC that may be "Noah's Flood."  I plan to do some work on that if I ever find the time.

The eruption of Thera that ended the Minoan Civilization and brought down the Egyptian 13th Dynasty (and provided the biblical authors with stories of burning hail falling from the sky, days of darkness and some of the Ten Plagues of Egypt) occurred in the fall/winter of 1629/1628 BC.  That was determined via tree rings.

There's also a severe drought in the 1340s BC that is a likely candidate for the "seven years of famine" that Joseph predicted, again, identified through tree rings.

So science and biblical accounts don't necessarily disagree.  However, the Bible got things a little garbled - especially the dates.

Quote

HOWEVER...for example, when he talks about the formation of coal and how timber can be turned to coal in a short amount of time under great pressure, it sounds somewhat plausible...I can consider this aspect but when he then tries to apply this same reasoning to elements that are far harder and denser such as various rocks then I start to have a problem.
Peat forms in highly-acid, oxygen-free environments such as occur in many bogs.  Wood rarely forms peat - it is usually sphagnum.  Peat formation has taken as little as 17 years, but is usually centuries longer.  Remains of human dwellings have been found belwo twenty feet of Irish peat.

100,000-year old undecomposed, unfossilized wood has been recovered from the cypress-bog that was where Washington, DC now stands.  We can build a record of the weather and climate of the time, but because the chronology can't be anchored to the modern callendar, we don't know which years those are.

The University of Missouri is trying to build a tree-ring callendar to cover the entire Holocene.  They'll need about 700 tree trunks to do it; have a little over a hundred at the moment.

A 6000-year old earth is going to have trouble explaining 8400-year old trees, not to mention 10,000 or 15,000 year-old ones.  And lets' not even bring up Clone Pando for fear of giving the guy apoplexy.

Quote

At one point it seemed that some scientists were even wondering how life could have formed on our planet so soon after it was formed until they began to realize that carbon dating can only go back so far; I figure that our planet is far older than the general 4.6 billion years. I would wager that it is closer to 10 or even 20 billion years old...maybe even older.
The folks who developed carbon dating knew its limits.  It is a logarithmic decay curve which means it is limited by the accuarcy to which you can measure concentrations of the various carbon isotopes.  Again, 40,000 years is the current limit - 60,000 maybe someday.

Quote

I agree that Darwins theories have been refined and fine tuned but he did lay the basic ground work and this is how it is for all theories. Once the foundation is confirmed then we can go to work developing and refining it. All theories evolve this way (excuse the pun) and they must.
Darwin laid that out 160 years ago.  Evoltuonary biology today is world's beyond what the fundies are trying to argue against.  In one sense, they're right:  much of what Darwin wrote has been superceded.  It's just that they haven't figured that out yet.
Doug

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#162    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:12 AM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 17 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

1. We have a sample pool of one to work with, so we don't know what the alien equivalent of DNA would be.
2. Not really mysterious, no. Rice is actually very small, genome-wise, when compared to other things like corn and wheat. Why is it larger than humans? Probably because its been around for longer.
3. Right. Did you do any research on the "fish with no junk DNA"? Or did you just blindly accept something you wrote without reading any further into it? And what does junk DNA really have to do with anything? Over a huge stretch of evolutionary time, some DNA will become unneeded. Plus I'm willing to bet a large amount of what we write off as "junk" actually isn't.
4. Well, yeah. We drastically affected the evolution of wolves when we bred dogs.
5. No such thing as devolution. Again, do you have a name for this mysterious octopus-dwelling animal and research that it used to be "much more complex" (a dangerously nebulous term).
6. Do the research yourself. This is pretty well understood, and the info is out there.
7. Gaia hypothesis has no effect on evolutionary theory.

1. No. You misunderstood me. How DNA of us would developed in different enviroment such as alien planet, where are different rules, such as gravity, ozone etc.
2. That doesnt make sense at all. What if longer exist? There is quite older simpler spicies then humans yet they dont have more genes then we.
3. Im not sure that in DNA is any junk material. I think that we dont know purpose of it we called it junk. What junk DNA have to do with anything? Well actually everything.
4. No I heared that special conditions can speed up evolution. Such as that lizard case in Croatia island. So what is driving force for speeding up evolution? Or witness jumping evolution.
5. I dont know name of that organism. If I knew all that what I asked I would be proffessor of biology. So I dont know is that animal what Abramelin linked. But Im positive what I heard that biologists talked.
6. Actually it isnt. I think if you cant explain it then you dont know too. I can answer on all mysteries on this forum with your answer. Do your research. We know all. It kills dialgoues.
7. Wrong. It is slightly different. Earth is superorganism. Second life create enviroment not other way around.

Edited by the L, 18 December 2012 - 09:12 AM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#163    Emma_Acid

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:21 PM

View Postthe L, on 18 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

1. No. You misunderstood me. How DNA of us would developed in different enviroment such as alien planet, where are different rules, such as gravity, ozone etc.
2. That doesnt make sense at all. What if longer exist? There is quite older simpler spicies then humans yet they dont have more genes then we.
3. Im not sure that in DNA is any junk material. I think that we dont know purpose of it we called it junk. What junk DNA have to do with anything? Well actually everything.
4. No I heared that special conditions can speed up evolution. Such as that lizard case in Croatia island. So what is driving force for speeding up evolution? Or witness jumping evolution.
5. I dont know name of that organism. If I knew all that what I asked I would be proffessor of biology. So I dont know is that animal what Abramelin linked. But Im positive what I heard that biologists talked.
6. Actually it isnt. I think if you cant explain it then you dont know too. I can answer on all mysteries on this forum with your answer. Do your research. We know all. It kills dialgoues.
7. Wrong. It is slightly different. Earth is superorganism. Second life create enviroment not other way around.

1. No idea. Probably very differently, or not at all.
2. Yes it does. Grains have a larger genome because they've been around for longer. A larger genome does not indicate a more complex species.
3. Yep, as I said, much of what we call "junk" probably isn't. One day, we'll find out what its for.
4. What "lizard case"?? Can you stop flippantly mentioning half remembered things and actually post some references?! And what the hell is "jumping evolution"??
5. Well Abramelin seemed to find it fine. I can't find any references to it "evolving from a more complex species" however, and even if it did this wouldn't be a problem.
6. We know how genetics works so that the instructions in DNA manufacture parts of an organism. The research is out there. Read it.
7. Maybe I need to put it another way: the Gaia Hypothesis does not impact on the validity of Evolutionary Theory.

I thought you were supposed to be "shattering the myths of Darwin's theory", rather than just building a list of Arguments from Ignorance?

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#164    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:38 PM

@Emma_Acid

3. So you admit that we dont kno 99% of human genom? Isnt that in contradiction what you just wrote under 6. (We know how genetics works...) ?
4. Im sorry I thought that you did read link from post 154. Evolution isnt linear. Evolution do jumps. Lets go out on land. Lets go in air. Lets developed self awerness and intelligence.
5. How isnt a problem? How come that something can evolve complex form into simplest form of life?
6. Again your statements are in contradiction. First you admit that we dont know 98/99 % of our genom then you say that there is explaination how genom know to built organism. Well my dear, that explaination have a hole. Hole is about 99% of that theory.

7. If Gaia theory is true it would  effect very much on evolution theory. But you are right so far isnt prooven. But same as many ideas in history. Idea has to float around so that people can accept it. Humanity must be ready for ideas. Theory of evolution isnt at all Darwins theory. Humanity was just prepared for final punch. Many before him break ice.
Or took example Ptolemy universe. It was dominant theory for 1500 years. Science can be dead wrong. Time change things. Science is self correcting therefore what now seems as hypothesis tommorow can be a prooven fact.

About ignorance- Please show your manners. Act civil, polite and friendly. Im for conversation here not for redicule.

Edited by the L, 18 December 2012 - 05:39 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#165    Magicjax

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:54 PM

I'm sorry the L. You asked to not make it personal and I have no intention of doing so. But the title you put in the video and the posts you've made in this thread is asking, almost screaming to be commented about.

The funny thing is the statements and questions you've made here are so typical. Such as "can a polar bear turn into a whale". These are so common. It's like the Kirk Cameron's crocaduck. The idea itself tells everyone that you have absolutely no clue what evolution is.

I suggest you start by really, I mean really studying whale evolution. Not from a UFO site. Really study it. Find out where they came from. Then move on to other species evolution. I genuinely hope you do this. There was a time when I thought about this as you seem to. But since I enlightened myself with facts rather than fiction. The truth became evident.

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