6 replies to this topic

[Still Waters]

Ed Miliband has ruled out a referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union.

The Labour leader said David Cameron’s position on Europe is “incredibly dangerous” and that the Prime Minister is “sleepwalking us towards the exit door”.

Mr Miliband said that promising an in/out referendum on the UK's position in the EU is the “last thing we should do”.

”It’s the wrong thing to do,” he said on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show. “It is not in the national interest."

http://www.telegraph...-of-the-EU.html

[TheLastLazyGun]

Still Waters, on 13 January 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Ed Miliband has ruled out a referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union.

It's not Miliband's decision.  It's Cameron's.  Miliband isn't in power.

And considering that a new poll has shown that UKIP are ahead of not only the Conservatives when it comes to voting intentions in the EU elections - in other words, UKIP are on course to win - it's almost a certainty that Cameron is to announce a referendum.  It will be politically suicidal for him and his party if he doesn't and a vote winner for UKIP.  Cameron and the Europhiles cannot win.

Cameron has two choices -

1)  Announce in his speech on 22nd January that he is to give us the referendum and allow the British people to vote to leave the EU and stand a good chance of winning the 2015 election or;
2)  Announce that there is to be no referendum and therefore see UKIP win the Euro election by taking votes off his party and see his party lose the 2015 General Election to a Labour landslide and see his party lose voters to UKIP.

Quote

Nigel Farage nearly chokes on his fish and chips.

The Sunday People has just told the UKIP leader about our poll which puts him ahead of the Tories.

“******* hell,” he splutters through a mouthful of haddock.

“Bloody Nora,” he adds after a few moments reflection.

Our pollsters ComRes found 23 per cent of voters say they will back UKIP in next year’s European elections, a point ahead of the Tories while the pro-EU Lib Dems trail on eight per cent.

With 18 months to go, that puts Farage on course for capturing a third of the vote at the elections which would increase his number of MEPs from 12 to more than 30 and could make UKIP the biggest UK group in the EU.

Cheers! UKIP leader Nigel Farage talks to The Sunday People's Nigel Nelson and Katie Hind at the 13th-century Turf Tavern pub in Oxford

Read more: http://www.mirror.co...-europe-1531433

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 13 January 2013 - 04:13 PM.

[stevewinn]

when at the last election a poll showed 88% of people would like a referendum on the EU and seeing how the Government and opposition parties exist to Govern the Nation on behalf of the people, it shows total contempt for the British people. anyway. Cameron should just  hold a in-out referendum and then abide by the result.

We have the matter of Romanian and Bulgarian immigration to contend with later this year. the UK had a ban on the movement, - the right to live and work in the UK for these two countries. this expires in December 2013. and under EU law we will be unable to stop it. the Government is so concerned with the impact it will have on the labour market and British jobs they are trying to find a way of extending the ban. the Government also refuses to release the figures or numbers of people expected. if the ban cannot be extended the Romain's and Bulgarians will have the right to Welfare, Housing, Health Care, etc..  are door will be forced open by the EU, allowing people from two of the poorest countries in the EU. they'll come in their droves.

powerless to stop it, why? because of EU rules! = time to leave.

[keithisco]

stevewinn, on 13 January 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

when at the last election a poll showed 88% of people would like a referendum on the EU and seeing how the Government and opposition parties exist to Govern the Nation on behalf of the people, it shows total contempt for the British people. anyway. Cameron should just  hold a in-out referendum and then abide by the result.

We have the matter of Romanian and Bulgarian immigration to contend with later this year. the UK had a ban on the movement, - the right to live and work in the UK for these two countries. this expires in December 2013. and under EU law we will be unable to stop it. the Government is so concerned with the impact it will have on the labour market and British jobs they are trying to find a way of extending the ban. the Government also refuses to release the figures or numbers of people expected. if the ban cannot be extended the Romain's and Bulgarians will have the right to Welfare, Housing, Health Care, etc..  are door will be forced open by the EU, allowing people from two of the poorest countries in the EU. they'll come in their droves.

powerless to stop it, why? because of EU rules! = time to leave.

I dont recall the Poll you mention - or the question that was asked..

I strongly support a referendum because UK is holding back closer integration of the EU - and without the UK delaying tactics, systemic problems within the EU can be addressed very quickly. As for "Representing the People" it just never happens because the "People" are not homogenous in their Political beliefs, nor in their needs. With the UK's "First Past The Post" system of electoral franchise, invariable the "Peoples" voice plays second fiddle to Political ambition.

The Romanian / Bulgarian "problem" is a very real one - I remember the Polish Invasion (if you will) when we were told very strongly by the Govt that a max of 40,000 could be expected to set up home in the UK.... in the end it has been nearer to half a million, the same is similar with the other extra - Nationals that the door was opened to. it is up to the UK Govt to deny entry to any extra - Nationals, and to face the consequences of it's action -

[TheLastLazyGun]

keithisco, on 14 January 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I strongly support a referendum because UK is holding back closer integration of the EU

And most people don't have a problem with that, because most people in the EU are against closer integration.  The arrogant and condescending Europhiles on here tend to forget that they are a MINORITY group in the EU and that most people in the EU are against closer intergration and have no trust in the EU.

Here's some inconvenient truth for you rabid Europhiles:

A survey in 2012, conducted by TNS Opinion and Social on behalf of the European Commission, showed that, for the European Union overall, those who think that their country's interests are looked after well in the EU are now in a minority (42%). Those with a positive image of the EU are down from a high of 52% in 2007 to a low of 31% in May 2012 (unchanged since November 2011); this compares with 28% with a negative image of the EU, and 39% with a neutral image (up from a low of 14% in 2007).

About 31% of EU citizens tend to trust the European Union as an institution, and about 60 percent do not tend to trust it. Trust in the EU has fallen from a high of 57% in 2007 to 31% in 2012, while trust in national governments has fallen from 43% in 2007 to 28% in 2012; so the EU has moved from enjoying much more trust than national governments in 2007 to a position of enjoying only slightly more trust than national governments in 2012. Trust in the EU is lowest in the United Kingdom (16% trust, 75% distrust) and highest in Bulgaria (55% trust; 15% distrust). Trust in national governments in these two countries is 21% (distrust 77%) and 28% (distrust 64%) respectively.

http://en.wikipedia....vey_Spring_2012

How dismaying it must be for the Europhiles to see that just 42% of EU citizens think their countries are better off in the EU and that less that a third have a positive image of the EU.

Europhiles need to remember that their support of the EU is not shared by most people.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 14 January 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[shadowhive]

If a referendum did happen you know what I'd like to see? I clear black and white list of what the the pro's and con's are of being in the EU (as well as a similar list for leaving). Preferably such a thing should be composed by people that don't have a biased agenda either way and that way people can look and make the decision logically and rationally. Unfortunately you have people like ukip getting people all riled up so that people don't want to do that, they just want out thoughtlessly.

[keithisco]

TheLastLazyGun, on 14 January 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

And most people don't have a problem with that, because most people in the EU are against closer integration.  The arrogant and condescending Europhiles on here tend to forget that they are a MINORITY group in the EU and that most people in the EU are against closer intergration and have no trust in the EU.

Here's some inconvenient truth for you rabid Europhiles:

A survey in 2012, conducted by TNS Opinion and Social on behalf of the European Commission, showed that, for the European Union overall, those who think that their country's interests are looked after well in the EU are now in a minority (42%). Those with a positive image of the EU are down from a high of 52% in 2007 to a low of 31% in May 2012 (unchanged since November 2011); this compares with 28% with a negative image of the EU, and 39% with a neutral image (up from a low of 14% in 2007).

About 31% of EU citizens tend to trust the European Union as an institution, and about 60 percent do not tend to trust it. Trust in the EU has fallen from a high of 57% in 2007 to 31% in 2012, while trust in national governments has fallen from 43% in 2007 to 28% in 2012; so the EU has moved from enjoying much more trust than national governments in 2007 to a position of enjoying only slightly more trust than national governments in 2012. Trust in the EU is lowest in the United Kingdom (16% trust, 75% distrust) and highest in Bulgaria (55% trust; 15% distrust). Trust in national governments in these two countries is 21% (distrust 77%) and 28% (distrust 64%) respectively.

http://en.wikipedia....vey_Spring_2012

How dismaying it must be for the Europhiles to see that just 42% of EU citizens think their countries are better off in the EU and that less that a third have a positive image of the EU.

Europhiles need to remember that their support of the EU is not shared by most people.

For you Rabid Europhobes, I suggest you look at the complete survey here: http://ec.europa.eu/...eb77_anx_en.pdf

Rather than just looking at a headline in Wiki. It is vey enlightening, and does not support the ferocity you phobics are claiming. An interesting fact from the survey is that half the UK respondents claim NOT to understand, or even know of the major Institutions.

Thism is quite interesting:

  QA14 In general, does the EU conjure up for you a very positive, fairly positive, neutral, fairly negative or very negative

image?

36% of UK Respondents were neutral,  16% were fairly Positive or Very Positive. So just where are people getting their anti-EU Figures from???

Edited by keithisco, 14 January 2013 - 03:12 PM.