10 replies to this topic

[and then]

http://www.aljazeera...9424994360.html

I'll go on the record prior to the samples even being taken, let alone tested:  ISRAEL killed him with poison!  Jaded soul that I am, I can't see any other reason for this than to use even his remains for propaganda value and perhaps a little attempt at extortion.  I have no doubt that he might have been poisoned but i can't imagine how such a thing could be traced back to the guilty party.
Thoughts?

[odas]

Let us wait and see. Upfront accusations have the same purpouse like upfront excuses.

[and then]

odas, on 26 November 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

Let us wait and see. Upfront accusations have the same purpouse like upfront excuses.

It's not really an accusation Odas, at least that's not my intention.  It's a valid question.  I guess that I cannot see what purpose it serves to make such an issue out of it at this point.  Certainly, if he was murdered, he deserves justice but there are very many that he killed along the way that never received any justice.  I just see it as a ploy.

[odas]

The same csn be said about the many inocent palestinians who were killed during the formation of the state of israel. They also never received justice. Wait and see. There is no such thing as only black and white.

[hacktorp]

and then, on 26 November 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

http://www.aljazeera...9424994360.html

I'll go on the record prior to the samples even being taken, let alone tested:  ISRAEL killed him with poison!  Jaded soul that I am, I can't see any other reason for this than to use even his remains for propaganda value and perhaps a little attempt at extortion.  I have no doubt that he might have been poisoned but i can't imagine how such a thing could be traced back to the guilty party.
Thoughts?

The following aren't my words, but do have the ring of truth:

Quote

Polonium, like Putin used in Litvanenko.  When you care enough to kill with Polonium, everybody knows you are from the club of nations with breeder reactors, and there are only a few.

Essentially, they will be looking for evidence of radioactivity in Arafat's body.

Edited by hacktorp, 26 November 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[and then]

hacktorp, on 26 November 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

The following aren't my words, but do have the ring of truth:



Essentially, they will be looking for evidence of radioactivity in Arafat's body.

Is it not possible to purchase it on a black market?  I'm not even saying that the Mossad wasn't responsible.  I'm saying I believe it's a foregone conclusion how this investigation will play out in the world media.  And I'm not really sure what they feel can be accomplished except more of the steady drip, drip of the PR campaign.  It will just bring more war eventually.

[hacktorp]

and then, on 26 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Is it not possible to purchase it on a black market?  I'm not even saying that the Mossad wasn't responsible.  I'm saying I believe it's a foregone conclusion how this investigation will play out in the world media.  And I'm not really sure what they feel can be accomplished except more of the steady drip, drip of the PR campaign.  It will just bring more war eventually.

I rather doubt polonium can be purchased on the black market.  It likely has greater traceability than other poisons, which may limit how available it is.

As for the purpose in exhuming Arafat's body, his death was originally attributed to natural causes, so a finding of murder would be a pretty big deal.

You might be right about bringing more war, sadly enough.  Better than burying the truth, though, would be for nation-states to avoid assassinations altogether.

[and then]

If Polonium 210 is the offending poison then I think I smell a setup.  It has a half life of 138 days +/- so since it's been 8 years I'm not sure but the math doesn't seem to add up.  The original amount would have decayed to 1/8 after a year.  1/64th after 2 years.... Not sure how sensitive the testing is but there couldn't be much left to look for.  Unless, of course it had been planted more recently.  If there are strong indications of it that might be a give away.

[synchronomy]

and then, on 27 November 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

If Polonium 210 is the offending poison then I think I smell a setup.  It has a half life of 138 days +/- so since it's been 8 years I'm not sure but the math doesn't seem to add up.  The original amount would have decayed to 1/8 after a year.  1/64th after 2 years.... Not sure how sensitive the testing is but there couldn't be much left to look for.  Unless, of course it had been planted more recently.  If there are strong indications of it that might be a give away.

True.  But from what I understand it decays into lead (Pb)206, which would remain detectable.  It would be like finding a needle in a haystack still.  One gram of Po 210 is considered sufficient to kill one million people.  Just a few nanograms is a lethal dose.
It has to be handled very carefully or it can easily kill a would-be assassin before they reach their intended target.
If Po 210 killed Arafat, there's a possibility one of his own people could have done it...or perhaps Arafat may have been inadvertantly poisoned while planning the assasination of someone else.
My thoughts are that if Israel had wanted him dead, they would have dropped a bomb on him.  They are very good at manipulating diplomatic circles and could easily have conjured up justification for taking him out.
Po 210 poisoning seems to be a difficult way to carry out a dirty deed...it seems unlikely to me.

Edited by synchronomy, 27 November 2012 - 12:27 AM.

[Raptor Witness]

synchronomy, on 27 November 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

True.  But from what I understand it decays into lead (Pb)206, which would remain detectable.  It would be like finding a needle in a haystack still.  One gram of Po 210 is considered sufficient to kill one million people.  Just a few nanograms is a lethal dose.
It has to be handled very carefully or it can easily kill a would-be assassin before they reach their intended target.
If Po 210 killed Arafat, there's a possibility one of his own people could have done it...or perhaps Arafat may have been inadvertantly poisoned while planning the assasination of someone else.
My thoughts are that if Israel had wanted him dead, they would have dropped a bomb on him.  They are very good at manipulating diplomatic circles and could easily have conjured up justification for taking him out.
Po 210 poisoning seems to be a difficult way to carry out a dirty deed...it seems unlikely to me.

I would count the likelihood of self-poisoning to be remote. He would have had no access to this material.

Israel would not have bombed him.

There are very few sources of this material, and most could be traced, I suspect. They should be able to tell where it likely came from.

If Israel did poison him, it would still be very difficult to prove.

I think the use of targeted assassinations by the U.S., and Israel will eventually come back to haunt them. Those chickens can come home to roost, and it won't matter what kind of security anyone has.

Saving civilians is simply an excuse to murder political enemies. It's all dressed up in love, but everybody knows, it ain't.

Edited by Raptor Witness, 27 November 2012 - 07:32 AM.

[and then]

Raptor Witness, on 27 November 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

I would count the likelihood of self-poisoning to be remote. He would have had no access to this material.

Israel would not have bombed him.

There are very few sources of this material, and most could be traced, I suspect. They should be able to tell where it likely came from.

If Israel did poison him, it would still be very difficult to prove.

I think the use of targeted assassinations by the U.S., and Israel will eventually come back to haunt them. Those chickens can come home to roost, and it won't matter what kind of security anyone has.

Saving civilians is simply an excuse to murder political enemies. It's all dressed up in love, but everybody knows, it ain't.

Yes, I also think there is a possibility we could see a US president assassinated by an external group in retribution for such activities.  This is why I find it difficult to believe that even Israel would stoop to a hit at this level.  It would be expected, it could be justified in other ways (the man was a bloody murderer after all) and it risks just such future retribution.  It's why the US does not usually take out the leader of other nations unless we are engaged in hostilities - like the attempt on Saddam in '03.