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Atlantis was in West Africa

diodorus amazons lybia atlantis west africa

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#61    Quaentum

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:51 PM

View Postthe L, on 16 November 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Now it just that you remember Gorgons as mythical creatures so you think Amazons attack monsters.
Also mythology doesnt work that way. Im sure that 95% myths are based on true events just people didn have been able to put it in words because of countless factors.

No it has nothing to do with memory but with Diodorus mixing Myth (Fantasy) with reality.  If I am wrong then, using sources other than Diodorus, give us more information on the Gorgons.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#62    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:38 AM

Maybe Athena was a Gorgon, or an Amazon or both, some kind of high priestess with a temple, in Libya, part of West Africa at the time, maybe the Serer people, with their snake spirits.
The women of this ancient people plait their hair when they marry and if found to be unfaithful to her husband, it is unplaited as a kind of mark of dishonour. This reminds me of Medusa and how when caught by Athena in her temple, she punished Medusa by turning her hair to snakes, then Medusa gets beheaded by Perseus. Not good to be unfaithful to Athena. Maybe Athena put it on her Aegis to remind one how dangerous it is to worship Poseidon and not her.



Plato says he thinks Athena has come into Greece, via Crete, from Libya at the dawn of Greek civilisation.

Plato, in the Laws, attributes the cult of Athena to the culture of Crete, introduced, he thought, from Libya during the dawn of Greek culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena

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#63    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:10 PM

@Parsec
Although I agree that they mix history with myths who can tell that there isnt true in myths? For example as I already said before in this thread Egyptian Ptah and Greek Hephaestus were alive person. Yes they are not probably called Ptah or Hephaestus or maybe firstone was called. However they are smithers. Maybe guild? Maybe. But I would say rather proffesion. Also Diodorus didnt mix myths and history. He wrote history and mention when his back up material is myth. In some places he dont pointed out that he wrote about myths. But thats why we have historians. Its job of living people to move facts from myths and seek truth in those myths. However I will pointed out that no matter does he wrote history with myths his accounts are priceless.

Herodotus and Livy wrote about some things that todays historians thinks it isnt true like Romul and Rem story.Some later historian thinks that if isnt true it isnt important.
They are important to real historianbecause we can understand how people think. Diodorus think that pillars are in Lybia. He think that they conquer Amazons. He think that Amazons beat Gorgons. Now, he even wrote that he rewrite history. Also why would he lied about people in west Africa called Atlanteans? Did he lied when he mentioned Greeks? Scythians? Ofcourse he didnt lied. So we assume he lied about Atlanteans because its too similar with Atlantis. Now I mentioned three volumes of history of the world written by Babylonian priest Berrosus. Who know how many histories we have been lost? Were Guttians real? Then we can argued does any culture exist if we didnt find their fort and temple, if we just have historical account.
I cant agree you. Im sure myths have origin in true events. Jesus was God to Apostoles. They are sure he was, because why would all of them died, literally, for claiming that. Would you die for someone not being your family? Not to mention that your life depends on small confession: He was not God. Yet all apostoles died, many on cross as Jesus.
Also when I read a Bible I found somthing interesting. I dont remember where so I can put right quote. It goes: Ask your God a fish and he will not give you a snake. Would you give your child a snake if he asked for fish. Now that message is strong. Now would you said to your child that Jesus was God? Now we can trace that line to Apostoles. Who were convinced. Just a thought.

Again I cant agree with you with Troy thing. First there are 9 levels of Troy. Second I will not post pictures of it but description and archaeological site are matching. Also I found Illiad great historic book. Many interesting things we found there which are confirmed. To me Illiad is historical book. Not as modern Gun Germs and Steel but written in different manner. From there we know how powerfull was Crete and so on. Bible can be read as historical book too. You can calculate years and see that many things matches. You can read about provinces in Judea and Israel. New testament is compilation of four books. So four people record same thing.

Now I see this. Parsec:Tacitus, Strabo, Diodorus, Plutarch wrote truth, but truth according to their way of seeing life and history.

I wish I see this before it would saved me from writting many sentences above. Anyway we agree. But its on us to solve puzzle.
Maybe Diodorus wanted to tell us that Greek frontier was Lybia at that time. So their movement of pillars at that time when Horus ruled Egypt were in Lybia.
I agree that Atlantis dea was named after Atlas mountain and after Titan Atlas. So Diodorus Atlanteans were named for geographic region. Okay. but could it be that Plato called Utopia land for same region? Ibernian peninsula-Ibernians. Why do you think that Plato didn call Atlas mountain Atlas?

And thanks for thinking as Puzzler that my idea was good. But Im sure Im not first to place it there. Im sure people read Diodorus before. But I have to link it with Amazons. They conquer Atlantis. Horse argument is good one. I dont know. Many things are possible. That evidence in central Europe is what it is. Earliset known evidence. That doesnt say that we wouldnt find older. Maybe Atlantis was ruined 6000 BC. Maybe Plato got his calendar wrong.


Also what can happened. We know that we doesnt have any original Plato work. Only copies. Now back then there were no printing press, so who know what Plato wrote.
Maybe scribes false a number.

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#64    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:16 PM

View PostHarte, on 18 November 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:



So, explain to me who this "Gorgon" culture was?

You do know that everything Siculus wrote on this is based on Plato's Timaeus and Critias dialogues, right?



Now read what I wrote about myths in above post. Also why wouldnt Gorgons be people who worship Gorgon from myth so they were called Gorgons?
Why would Gorgons must be linked at all with Myth? Maybe there are people called Gorgons. And as Diodorus wrote they live in west africa and they were conquered after Amazon conquer Atlantis.
I dont know that Diodorus used Plato as his final and only account. As I remember reading him in beging he wrote that he wrote it down so previous written histories wouldnt be lost.
So he used term histories or historians...

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#65    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:23 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 18 November 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

However, Plato was the first to present the story as we understand it: the high civilization on a vast island-continent at war with Athens 9,000 years before Solon but destroyed by geological disaster. No one prior to Plato writes of this saga. By all appearances, of course, Plato concocted it himself.

Second, as a Moderator and having seen some of the epic-length opening posts, I will remind posters not to copy and paste entire articles or even long passages of them. Doing so not only almost guarantees no one will care to read them, but it might well risk copyright issues.


Plato first spoke about Atlantis and disaster. However Diodorus was second he spoke. Only his disaster were Amazons and he didnt said Atlantis but Atlanteans. Also maybe disaster strike Atalaneans after they were conquered. Or better before. So Amazons Atalanteans are  successors of Platos Atlanteans. They are survivors.
Also Plato is defenetly not first to spoke about advanced civilization in the west.

About second part. I now see its against ruled however I dont think that Diodorus will sue us. But it wont happened again. Although I found every word precious in it.And I could speculate hours on only one word in it. So I found them as basis for this thread.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#66    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:29 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 18 November 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Just an aside: the older, Phoenician name of the Pillars was Pillars of Melqart.

I didnt know that. Thanks. I wonder many things now but I will not rush with it.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#67    Abramelin

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

View Postthe L, on 22 November 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

I didnt know that. Thanks. I wonder many things now but I will not rush with it.

The Greeks did nothing but follow the Phoenicians in their path, just to find out about their secrets.

And something else: the Jews erected two pillars in some synagogue near the Strait of Gibraltar (in Cadiz, actually), and they called them Jachin and Boaz.

The Phoenicians helped build the second temple of Solomon in Jerusalem, and in front of the entrance of that temple they erected  those two pillars,"Jachin" and "Boaz".

I should add that the Hebrews traveled along with their kin: the Phoenicians.

I should alsoo add that I am quite fkd now.

But I hope you did get the message.

+++

EDIT:

It were the Phoenicians AND the Hebrews, who traveled along with them, who named the Strait of Gibraltar, "Pillars of this or that".

The Greeks equated Melqart with Hercules, and that's where we get the name, "Pillars of Hercules".






.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 November 2012 - 10:55 PM.


#68    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:05 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 19 November 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

No it has nothing to do with memory but with Diodorus mixing Myth (Fantasy) with reality.  If I am wrong then, using sources other than Diodorus, give us more information on the Gorgons.

Read my answer to Harte.
But I will try to be creative.
Gargareans were male tribes which Amazons used for reproduction as Greek myths tell us.  When they born female they kept her and males are given to  Gargareans.
Now did Amazon went on rape invasions in foregin lands. Did they used Diodorus Gorgons for sex? Did Gargareans came from Gorgons.
Then they conquered Atlantis and maybe Amazons saw that Atlanteans were smarter. Or Amazons were great lovers so Atlanteans became jealous so thats motive why they convinced Amazons for destroying Gorgons.

Furthermore Gaius Plinius Secundus wrote that Gegar lived in north of Caucasus. Almost all people on earth agree that they are same people as Strabo Gargarei.
Now lets see what Strabo said: "... the Amazons live close to Gargarei, on the northern foothills of the Caucasus mountains".

Those are same Amazons which came from Lybia. Now they came as rebeled POW runing from Greeks. They were living to Gargarei.
Now could it be that Gargarei was name given to some tribe which Amazon consider to be male slave tribe.
Gorgons-Gargarei. Similar?
Maybe Gargarei was word for male slave in Amazon language.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#69    pallidin

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:13 PM

While I do not dismiss the notion of "Atlantis", I wonder if a catastrophic volcanic event or such completely obliterated the island, leaving nothing left for science, but much for eternal conjecture.

And I, for one, do not believe that they were "advanced" such as having special crystals imparting some form of "power"
I think, if they existed, they were just an island nation with the normal "pray to our gods" scenario.


#70    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:20 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 20 November 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

Maybe Athena was a Gorgon, or an Amazon or both, some kind of high priestess with a temple, in Libya, part of West Africa at the time, maybe the Serer people, with their snake spirits.
The women of this ancient people plait their hair when they marry and if found to be unfaithful to her husband, it is unplaited as a kind of mark of dishonour. This reminds me of Medusa and how when caught by Athena in her temple, she punished Medusa by turning her hair to snakes, then Medusa gets beheaded by Perseus. Not good to be unfaithful to Athena. Maybe Athena put it on her Aegis to remind one how dangerous it is to worship Poseidon and not her.



Plato says he thinks Athena has come into Greece, via Crete, from Libya at the dawn of Greek civilisation.

Plato, in the Laws, attributes the cult of Athena to the culture of Crete, introduced, he thought, from Libya during the dawn of Greek culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena

From Lybia to Crete.Imagine that. When? Remember topless Minoan priestes with snakes? ;)
Female dominating priestes? With snakes? Maybe Athena was Amazon indeed...

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#71    The Puzzler

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:42 AM

View Postthe L, on 22 November 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

From Lybia to Crete.Imagine that. When? Remember topless Minoan priestes with snakes? ;)
Female dominating priestes? With snakes? Maybe Athena was Amazon indeed...
I actually think the snake waving (of the Cretan priestesses) was a possible summoning the snake spirits, people don't wave things in the air in rituals like this for nothing, they were a kind of receptor of the actual spirit. The cult of Athena I think is connected to this ritual. The same as Hermes staff, with snakes on it too - snake spirit receptors. Snakes are everywhere in Athens, especially in myth.

Edited by The Puzzler, 24 November 2012 - 12:46 AM.

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#72    docyabut2

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:23 AM

Geryon the king of  Iberia was the grandson of Posidion and Medusa .


http://www.theoi.com...s/Gorgones.html


http://www.theoi.com...r/Khrysaor.html



Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4. 17. 1 (trans. Oldfather) (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
"The cattle of Geryones, which pastured in the parts of Iberia which slope towards the ocean. And Herakles, realizing that the task called for preparation on a large scale and involved great hardships, gathered a notable armament and a multitude of soldiers as would be adequate for this expedition. For it had been noised abroad throughout all the inhabited world that Khrysaor (Golden-Sword), who received this appellation because of his wealth, was king over the whole of Iberia, and that he had three sons [the three-bodied Geryon] to fight at his side, who excelled in both strength of body and the deeds of courage which they displayed in contests of war; it was known, furthermore, that each of these sons had at his disposal great forces which were recruited from warlike tribes. It was because of these reports that Eurystheus, thinking any expedition against these men would be too difficult to succeed, had assigned the Herakles the Labour just described."


Kings of Tartesso
Khrysa'or
Geryon
Norax
Gargoris
Habis
Arganthonis

Edited by docyabut2, 24 November 2012 - 02:20 AM.


#73    docyabut2

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:27 AM

Kings of Tartesso

Chrysa'or 1325 BC (the time of Perseus and Medusa)
Geryon 1250 BC (at the time of Heracles)
Norax 850 BC
Gargoris 800 BC
Habis 750 BC
Arganthonis.700 to 550 BC

the end of a empire


#74    Abramelin

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:57 AM

Could you tell us where you got those names from, Docyabut2?

Maybe something is going wrong on my side of the internet, but I can't find all the names you posted.

All I find is you posting that list:

http://www.historum....html#post897644

http://www.historum....tml#post1001383

http://atlantisonlin...ge;topic=1591.0

http://atlantisonlin...c=1591.115;wap2

+++

EDIT:

From here:

http://www.alternate...88&postcount=38

Or from here:

http://www.rah.es/pd..._Literatura.pdf

.
.

Edited by Abramelin, 24 November 2012 - 07:22 AM.


#75    zodd

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:12 AM



This seems to be the most legit and believable explanation of atlantis that I've come across.  Let me know what you guys think.





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