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why did satan get kicked out of heaven


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#1    danielost

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:08 PM

This has been mentioned in another thread.  But, no one wants to derail that thread to discuss it.

I was taught, basically that satan and god got into an arguement over how to save mankind.  Satan wanted to force us back to god.  God wanted us to have freewill here as we did in heaven.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#2    Mnemonix

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:12 PM

View Postdanielost, on 23 May 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

I was taught, basically that satan and god got into an arguement over how to save mankind.  Satan wanted to force us back to god.  God wanted us to have freewill here as we did in heaven.

That would make Satan Mr. Nice Guy trying to get humans to be faithful to God? And it's funny because God wanting people to have freewill means allowing people to sin.

Why did Satan get kicked out of Heaven.

Islam: Didn't want to bow down before Adam as commanded by Allah. So Satan is sentenced to Hell when the day of judgment comes. But in the meantime, he's allowed to mislead mankind, his worst enemy (because of his grudge with Adam).

From what I've been taught.

Edited by Mnemonix, 23 May 2013 - 08:20 PM.


#3    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:21 PM

Truth be told,his mouth wash and deodorant just weren't making it ...

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#4    danielost

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:31 PM

View PostMnemonix, on 23 May 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:



That would make Satan Mr. Nice Guy trying to get humans to be faithful to God? And it's funny because God wanting people to have freewill means allowing people to sin.

Why did Satan get kicked out of Heaven.

Islam: Didn't want to bow down before Adam as commanded by Allah. So Satan is sentenced to Hell when the day of judgment comes. But in the meantime, he's allowed to mislead mankind, his worst enemy (because of his grudge with Adam).

From what I've been taught.

With out freewill you don't grow/learn.

If your dad never let's go of the bike how do you learn to ride.

Edited by danielost, 23 May 2013 - 08:35 PM.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#5    Mnemonix

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:33 PM

View Postdanielost, on 23 May 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

With out freewill you don't grow.

Maybe not, but with God everything is possible.

If he wanted to make us develop, grow and learn without freewill, why not? Shouldn't be a problem for someone who created the whole universe(s).


#6    pallidin

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:34 PM

To my EXTEMELY layman's knowledge, it is not possible(excepting special, granted, circumstance) to be before God unless "pure in heart"

Else one would be immediately either "thrown-out" of the "highest dimension" or destroyed in far less than a nano-second.

EDIT: Again, though, I have no solid clue. Just speculation on my part.

Edited by pallidin, 23 May 2013 - 08:37 PM.


#7    danielost

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:41 PM

View PostMnemonix, on 23 May 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:



Maybe not, but with God everything is possible.

If he wanted to make us develop, grow and learn without freewill, why not? Shouldn't be a problem for someone who created the whole universe(s).

Then maybe we just found out that god has limits.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#8    pallidin

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:42 PM

As far as "why", it seems as if God, and that most high dimension, has 'certain rules" of which "Satan" violated.

Thus, Satan was remanded to a lower dimension.

Just my take on it. I am by no means any authority on that subject, as I doubt any human is.


#9    pallidin

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:47 PM

View Postdanielost, on 23 May 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Then maybe we just found out that god has limits.

God can not destroy itself. That, by no means whatsoever, makes God not God.

Silly argument.

Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift, blah, blah, blah.


#10    Mnemonix

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:47 PM

View Postdanielost, on 23 May 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Then maybe we just found out that god has limits.

Then maybe we just found out that "god" has limits.

View Postpallidin, on 23 May 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

God can not destroy itself. That, by no means whatsoever, makes God not God.

Silly argument.

Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift, blah, blah, blah.

Can God destroy itself?

Sure, if God can do anything.

Will God destroy himself?

Doing so isn't what God does, so no.

Going a little off topic...

Let's talk about Satan.

Edited by Mnemonix, 23 May 2013 - 08:50 PM.


#11    pallidin

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:53 PM

Proving, or dis-proving God or Satan has never been done.

Good luck.


#12    jugoso

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:54 PM

View Postdanielost, on 23 May 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

I was taught, basically that satan and god got into an arguement over how to save mankind.  Satan wanted to force us back to god.  God wanted us to have freewill here as we did in heaven.

Never heard that one. Who taught you that?

I guess it all depends on what book you choose to believe.

The whole thought of God and Satan having an argument is amusing to me. We are certainly a confused lot.

Edited by jugoso, 23 May 2013 - 08:57 PM.

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Free your mind and you ass will follow.
The kingdom of heaven is within"
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#13    Mnemonix

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:55 PM

View Postpallidin, on 23 May 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Proving, or dis-proving God or Satan has never been done.

Good luck.

Tell that to the theists.


#14    J. K.

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:59 PM

This is one explanation from Isaiah 14.  He sought to be equal with God.  "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

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#15    Odd Requiem

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:02 PM

I was under the impression that Satan had a different opinion than God.

So God was like, "whoa, there's only room for one chef in this kitchen!"

And so Satan was sent to the kitchen with no ventilation system.

-I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.//




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