US support of Israel

[KungFuJoe]

The government will want you to know that the US supports Israel because they are the only hope for democracy in the Middle East and that only through Israel can the US stamp out the tyrannical regimes that run rampant through the surrounding area. Oh...and all Muslims are terrorists...can't forget that either. And also the Jews need our sympathy and support to help them live in peace in their rightful home....nevermind all the Palestinians that just happened to be living there when the Israelis came and took it from them.

What it really comes down to is...religious fundamentalists (christians and jews) who are pouring money and influence into the government to keep the support to Israel flowing...and they each have their own purpose in mind.

The Jews in America simply want to support Israel as it is the cornerstone of their religion. Although I think this support has slipped in recent years as more and more Jews in US are actually speaking out against the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories. What's really providing the PUSH are the fundamentalist christians...how they are trying with all their might to ensure that Israel continues to exist....for ONE reason. Armageddon. They want to Jews to rebuild the Third Temple on Temple Mount to ensure that Revelations comes true...end of days, anti christ, rapture, great tribulation, the whole nine.

Is a prophecy actually true if it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy? Fundamentalist Christians seem to think so.

[MadMachine]

Very nice post. If it's all true, it confirms my suspicions.

I don't yet know enough to add anything to, or criticize anything about the subject though. I'm not any kind of researcher, but I am a highly suspicious person.

I'll be looking forward to the discussions this thread may bring up.

[GoddessWhispers]

Well, there is certainly an argument for the support being political, as we are both occupiers of another's country. We both invade and then command under articles of violence, the peoples and lands of those territories called Israel and the United States.

However I don't think the support can be said to be religious, save the inference of "judeo-christian" religion as the cornerstone of the founding of the American Republic. If indeed we were religious allies we would have risen to the defense of the jews being slaughtered in the Holocaust during WW2 immediately. Rather than being compelled to enter the frey only after our National interests were assaulted in Pearl Harbor by the Japanese.

[KungFuJoe]

Well, there is certainly an argument for the support being political, as we are both occupiers of another's country. We both invade and then command under articles of violence, the peoples and lands of those territories called Israel and the United States.

However I don't think the support can be said to be religious, save the inference of "judeo-christian" religion as the cornerstone of the founding of the American Republic. If indeed we were religious allies we would have risen to the defense of the jews being slaughtered in the Holocaust during WW2 immediately. Rather than being compelled to enter the frey only after our National interests were assaulted in Pearl Harbor by the Japanese.

But I said nothing about being religious allies. Christians and Jews both want Israel for their own religious prophecies. But, what do they care what the other side believes when the end result is more support for Israel?

[GoddessWhispers]

Forgive my implying "religious allies". As you posted this thread in a Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs forum, I dared imagine a reply that attended that aspect of the political premise was appropriate. If you sought a discourse on the political aspect alone, I might dare suggest this thread is then in the wrong forum.

[+joc]

The reason we support Israel is because they were almost exterminated as a race by the Nazis and when the UN voted to make them a country we pledged our allegiance with them. They are an ally...

...why do people have to make simple things so ...complicated?

[GoddessWhispers]

If you imagine that was something "so simple" , you do yourself a disservice in imagining to know what you're talking about.

[KungFuJoe]

Forgive my implying "religious allies". As you posted this thread in a Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs forum, I dared imagine a reply that attended that aspect of the political premise was appropriate. If you sought a discourse on the political aspect alone, I might dare suggest this thread is then in the wrong forum.

Well...just because I'm not saying Jews and Christians are religious allies (when in fact, they are anything but) doesn't mean my topic is entirely political. The point I'm making is that US politics when concerning the state of Israeli is driven by religion.

[KungFuJoe]

The reason we support Israel is because they were almost exterminated as a race by the Nazis and when the UN voted to make them a country we pledged our allegiance with them. They are an ally...

...why do people have to make simple things so ...complicated?

First of all...nothing in this world happens out of "goodwill". There are plenty of other starving and struggling nations that haven't received 450 BILLION dollars in aid from the US. And does it strike anyone as odd, that out of all the countries we give foreign aid to, Israel is the ONLY country that is not required to account for most of it?

The holocaust was a horrible horrible event and the Jews during that time deserve our fullest sympathies. However, how much sympathy is the world expected to give to the state of Israel when they force innocent people out of the homes they, and generations before them have lived in? The UN also passed a regulation that outlaws military occupation of any foreign country but we don't see Israel following that, do we? Fact of that matter is, between Israel and their unrelenting support from the US, they do as they will, regardless of any UN ruling. And most UN proposals regarding the goodwill of the Palestinians and the conflict in Israel have been unanimously approved by all members except for ONE. And guess who that is. The US. Being one of the permanent members of the UN, the US enjoys veto power over any proposed regulation that goes through the UN's doors...and they have BLATANTLY abused that power when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Don't believe me?

http://www.miftah.org/PrinterF.cfm?DocId=1579

[sbradj]

someone should be their allies..seems like when their playing/abidding by the UN rules..regulations something/someone from the palestines launches somekind of attack....Isreal isnt out breacking/attacking ppl until something/someone launches first...when their "off guard" playing by the UN's or anyone elses laws/rules..IMO i think its great the US is in support for Isreal...we in return one day might need theirs...

[KungFuJoe]

someone should be their allies..seems like when their playing/abidding by the UN rules..regulations something/someone from the palestines launches somekind of attack....Isreal isnt out breacking/attacking ppl until something/someone launches first...when their "off guard" playing by the UN's or anyone elses laws/rules..IMO i think its great the US is in support for Isreal...we in return one day might need theirs...

Yes, the media is quick to provide news coverage for every single Palestinian suicide bombing that occurs...and of course Israel's "retaliation". What they are NOT quick to report is the fact that, AGAINST UN LAW, Israel continues to occupy Palestinian lands with their military and not quietly either. They have been known, on countless occasions, to shoot unarmed protesters and snipe innocent children as well.

How would you feel if some foreign people came, kicked you out of your homes and land, you fought back, won back only a tiny percentage of what was once yours and even STILL, the foreign countries sit outside your front door with their armies? You think you'd just sit there and take it?

As far as needing Israeli's support...the US is the strongest military force in the world...all we need is natural resources, which Israel has NONE of. What exactly do we need from Israel? NOTHING.

Edited December 9, 2006 by KungFuJoe

[muslim]

and all Muslims are terrorists...can't forget that either

Im a Muslim. So basically.. screw you. The terrorists are the Israelis, the child murdereds. They come and occupy Palestine and you say you should support them? ITS AN OCCUPATION! THE PALESTINIANS HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND THEIR OWN COUNTRY. Oh and again.. screw you.

[KungFuJoe]

Im a Muslim. So basically.. screw you. The terrorists are the Israelis, the child murdereds. They come and occupy Palestine and you say you should support them? ITS AN OCCUPATION! THE PALESTINIANS HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND THEIR OWN COUNTRY. Oh and again.. screw you.

Tell you what. Go back and reread my original post. Then come back.

[muslim]

I did, u said all Muslims are terrorists.

[+joc]

I did, u said all Muslims are terrorists.

The government will want you to know that the US supports Israel because they are the only hope for democracy in the Middle East and that only through Israel can the US stamp out the tyrannical regimes that run rampant through the surrounding area. Oh...and all Muslims are terrorists...can't forget that either. And also the Jews need our sympathy and support to help them live in peace in their rightful home....nevermind all the Palestinians that just happened to be living there when the Israelis came and took it from them.

He wasn't 'saying' all Muslims are terrorists, rather that is what the 'government' wants us to believe. Ludicrous..but nonetheless.........

The Palestinians weren't Palestinians....they were arabs who lived in the land that Israel occupied after the 6 day war. Basically Egypt didn't want them and no one else did either.

[KungFuJoe]

He wasn't 'saying' all Muslims are terrorists, rather that is what the 'government' wants us to believe. Ludicrous..but nonetheless.........

The Palestinians weren't Palestinians....they were arabs who lived in the land that Israel occupied after the 6 day war. Basically Egypt didn't want them and no one else did either.

That's incorrect. The 6 day war in 1967 was between an already formed state of Israel and surrounding arab nations Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. The Israeli military proved to be much too efficient and defeated the combined arab military.

You are thinking 1948 Arab/Israeli conflict when the British released their mandate of Palestine, Jews emigrated to Israel from around the world, and the Palestinian Exodus occured as they were forced out of there homes.

They were Palestinians...the name grew out of favor during the Ottoman period, I believe, but during the British mandate between 1920 and 1948, they were known officially as the Palestinians living in Palestine. But regardless of what name you choose, the fact is, the same people and their ancestors lived in the area for hundreds of years before they were forced out.

Edited December 10, 2006 by KungFuJoe

[Hans Dolbrook]

american support of israel is gonna bite us in the ass eventually!

[Something Like Laughter]

I doubt the majority of people in the US that support Israel do so for religious reasons.

Still, Christian Zionism really is not one of my favorite political views.

[Grandpa Greenman]

american support of israel is gonna bite us in the ass eventually!

It already has. I think a lot of the problems with terrorism is based on western support of Israel.

[+joc]

QUOTE(openmind1963 @ Dec 10 2006, 01:31 PM)

american support of israel is gonna bite us in the ass eventually!

It already has. I think a lot of the problems with terrorism is based on western support of Israel.

Israel is just a scapegoat...if Israel vanished from the face of the Earth, Radical Islam would still shout Death to America.

[KungFuJoe]

Israel is just a scapegoat...if Israel vanished from the face of the Earth, Radical Islam would still shout Death to America.

And the reason why you believe that is because all you see on TV is news report after news report about "terrorist" activity. What you don't hear about are Isrealis gunning down unarmed protestors marching against military occupation of THEIR land, or Israeli snipers targetting children in the same military occupied areas.

Take a good look at the world...Israel spills FAR more Palestinian blood than vice versa.

[Falco Rex]

You do realize that the US sends far more aid and money to Egypt than Isreal right? Not a lot of religious backing on that one, it's merely a bribe for stability.

I think the bottom line is; it helps Western countries in general to have a stable nation that's run along western lines in a region that's hostile to us, and has been since the rise of the Greek City States..

Hence; lots of aid poured into helping Israel stay viable..

You don't need religion to interject basic common sense on how world governments work. In fact adding a lot of hoo-ha about fulfilling prophecies usually draws people away from the actual issues governments operate on in principle..

[KungFuJoe]

You do realize that the US sends far more aid and money to Egypt than Isreal right? Not a lot of religious backing on that one, it's merely a bribe for stability.

I think the bottom line is; it helps Western countries in general to have a stable nation that's run along western lines in a region that's hostile to us, and has been since the rise of the Greek City States..

Hence; lots of aid poured into helping Israel stay viable..

You don't need religion to interject basic common sense on how world governments work. In fact adding a lot of hoo-ha about fulfilling prophecies usually draws people away from the actual issues governments operate on in principle..

Wrong. Egypt is the 2nd largest beneficiary of US aid. Israel is the first. Also, Egypt gets their money on a quarterly basis and US Bureaucrats oversee how each penny is spent by Egypt. In contrast, the US sends Israel money in a lump sum yearly basis and the money pretty much disappears as soon as it arrives as Israel is the ONLY COUNTRY THAT IS NOT REQUIRED TO ACCOUNT FOR ITS USAGE OF MONEYS PROVIDED FROM THE US.

BTW...I never meant to imply that religion was the SOLE reason for supporting Israel. I understand there are many other factors involved. However, it is my belief that religion is the BIGGEST reason.

Edited December 10, 2006 by KungFuJoe

[Falco Rex]

My bad, Egypt USED to be the biggest foriegn aid recipient until Isreal..Unfortunately Isreal isn't the biggest recipient anymore either. Iraq has just taken over that title, although I guess nobody should be surprised..

While I don't disagree that religion might play a role; I just doubt it's the biggest one, or ever was..Guilt started Isreal and hope for a Westernized Middle East perpetuates it's propping up, in my own view..

[+joc]

That's incorrect. The 6 day war in 1967 was between an already formed state of Israel and surrounding arab nations Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. The Israeli military proved to be much too efficient and defeated the combined arab military.

You are thinking 1948 Arab/Israeli conflict when the British released their mandate of Palestine, Jews emigrated to Israel from around the world, and the Palestinian Exodus occured as they were forced out of there homes.

They were Palestinians...the name grew out of favor during the Ottoman period, I believe, but during the British mandate between 1920 and 1948, they were known officially as the Palestinians living in Palestine. But regardless of what name you choose, the fact is, the same people and their ancestors lived in the area for hundreds of years before they were forced out.

You are correct...my mistake.