Another School Shooting!

[Princess Serenity]

I just saw breaking news on Fox News Channel. That there's been another school shooting this time in Florida. Someone's been shot & a school has been locked down. That's all I know right now. Plus I told my mom about it & she said what's wrong with these kids? Yes. What's wrong with them?

This stuff used to happen once in a blue moon. Now they're happening like every single month!

Edit: The two gunmen are on the lose. The person was shot is at a local hospital. The kids are fine & the school lockdowned has ended. And I think it was a elementry school.

Edited December 11, 2007 by MoonPrincess

[chemical-licker]

hmm lets answer the question, whats wrong with bloody kids today lets begin with their doppy parents

[glorybebe]

hmm lets answer the question, whats wrong with bloody kids today lets begin with their doppy parents

I agree. Parents need to be parents, not friends.

[Spurious George]

Society is rotten... whats that saying by that dude... oh ya 'Good trees do not produce rotten fruit, and rotten trees do not produce good fruit'... I prefer, "The sh** apple doesnt fall far from the sh** tree."

[IronGhost]

There's no doubt in my mind that the problem with kids is that they are suffering from post-modern ennui. They feel detached and a sense of meaningless in world that has become largely symbolic to them, and not real. They often feeling emotionally numb and are desperate to feel real feelings, but they don't know how. This is one of the reason why body piercing is no popular -- it's a desperate and symbolic attempt to feel something, even if it's the pain of a pin going through their tongue, or other body organ.

Just about all young people have become trapped in an existential framework, whether they know it or not. The universe seems impossibly vast and meaningless, and uncaring.

Look at all the popular sports for young people, as well -- it's all "extreme" this and "extreme" that -- whether it's snowboarding or mountain biking. The desperation to "feel" makes them crave adrenaline.

Again, it's all due to a world that has become too symbolic -- the Internet is where many people spend the majority of their time, and the Net is a place that is 100% symbolic, and not real.

So the basic problem is unreality and the ennui it naturally produces.

[Primeval]

There's no doubt in my mind that the problem with kids is that they are suffering from post-modern ennui. They feel detached and a sense of meaningless in world that has become largely symbolic to them, and not real. They often feeling emotionally numb and are desperate to feel real feelings, but they don't know how. This is one of the reason why body piercing is no popular -- it's a desperate and symbolic attempt to feel something, even if it's the pain of a pin going through their tongue, or other body organ.

Just about all young people have become trapped in an existential framework, whether they know it or not. The universe seems impossibly vast and meaningless, and uncaring.

Look at all the popular sports for young people, as well -- it's all "extreme" this and "extreme" that -- whether it's snowboarding or mountain biking. The desperation to "feel" makes them crave adrenaline.

Again, it's all due to a world that has become too symbolic -- the Internet is where many people spend the majority of their time, and the Net is a place that is 100% symbolic, and not real.

So the basic problem is unreality and the ennui it naturally produces.

Alright then Dr. Phil.

Hey I got an idea? Perhaps these kids are p***ed off because they have no friends, and their parents treat them like... Parents, instead of friends. Why do parents always talk to their kids so condescending, like their not capable of the same thought processes as adults. There is clearly a human mind that uses logic inside of these kids heads, their not exactly stupid.

Michael Moore: If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now?

Marilyn Manson: I wouldn't say a single word to them, I would listen to what they have to say and that's what no one did.

[thump]

I agree. Parents need to be parents, not friends.

Yes parents need to be parents, and THEY need to be their friends. If a parent loves their children and is there for them at all times, kept a close eye on them, correct them when need corrected while the kids are growing up, teach right from wrong we wouldnt have the crime today. Alot of parents these days are just lazy and wannna sleep, do their partying, their drugs, etc. and not pay any attention to the kids. Then you have parents who are afraid to discipline their kids when they need to be corrected only because DHS ( Department of Human Services ) has it in the kids' mind that if the parents gives them a spanking, all they have to do is call DHS and turn the parents in for beating the kid and they will get to go away to this happy happy land forever. However this isnt how DHS works, They say spank you kids when needed but there is a difference from discipline ( spanking ) and beating. But parents are scared they will go to jail, get their kids taken away, whatever... I dont care who you are if you dont discipline your children when needed then you are just as bad as the ones who dont care what their children do. Its all part of parenting.

As far as a parent being the child's friend... if they cant turn to you for advice, to talk to you about this or that, then what are you there for?

They need the parents, not only to be mom and dad, but they need you to listen to them whether its to talk or when they have something bothering them. Alot of kids will seek someone who will listen to them if the parents dont, this can draw them to the wrong crowds, to drugs, etc.

My kids and i are close, when something is bothering them, i am the only person who is there for them. I believe that i am the mother, its my responsibility to teach them right from wrong, show them love, be there for them -- period. I will not allow anyone to step in my place and take care of my kids, due to being lazy and not wanting to take care of them, wont happen. Not only am i their mother, im also their best friend!

[Primeval]

If a parent loves their children and is there for them at all times, kept a close eye on them, correct them when need corrected while the kids are growing up, teach right from wrong we wouldnt have the crime today.

.... Thats a long shot!

[IronGhost]

Alright then Dr. Phil.

Hey I got an idea? Perhaps these kids are p***ed off because they have no friends, and their parents treat them like... Parents, instead of friends. Why do parents always talk to their kids so condescending, like their not capable of the same thought processes as adults. There is clearly a human mind that uses logic inside of these kids heads, their not exactly stupid.

Michael Moore: If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now?

Marilyn Manson: I wouldn't say a single word to them, I would listen to what they have to say and that's what no one did.

Since you bring up Dr. Phil -- he is an inegral part of the problem. He is on something called "television" which is a 100% symbolic environment that is removed from every day reality.

Dr. Phil's audience is primarily women, much of whom are the mothers of these kids going postal. The mother's become steeped in Dr. Phil's 100% brand of 100% bullsh**t and in turn began relating to their children in purely symbolic ways that are detached from reality.

As for Marilyn Manson, he is even more full of bullsh**t that Dr. Phil. Manson is a primary part of the problem. He is acting out the extreme ennui that is inbedded in the psyches of the children -- Manson is "extreme" and also extremely unreal. What do all of his antics symbolize? -- his actics symbolize symbolism -- and thus he become a "voice" for the children, which is like trying to chop down a tree, except that the wood of the axehandle is the tree itself. Get it?

There would be a lot less school shooting if women didn't watch Dr. Phil all the time, and if they would not let their children watch television all the time and make them stay off the Internet more -- if a woman and her son went out together into the real woods and chopped down a real tree every day, and then used that wood to heat their homes, their would be alot less shootings by aliented kids because they would experience the experience of chopping down a tree and then get the real feeling of the wamth is produces when they burn it.

But, instead, all they have to do is push a buttom on the wall, and heat magically comes out, and they have very little idea how that heat got inside there in the first place. They assume it is just symbolic heat because hours and years of TV and the Internet have trained their minds to think of all reality as purely symbolic --

--- they think everything is symbolic, and unreal in some way -- and that's what's driving them crazy.

Manson's DUMB advice to LISTEN to children who are lost in a symbolic world is DUMB. Manson needs kids to live in unreality so he can dress us as something unreal, and play it back to them in exchange for a lot of money -- which is only a symbol for real wealth -- and so it goes on and on.

Edited December 11, 2007 by IronGhost

[BiffSplitkins]

I agree. Parents need to be parents, not friends.

The problem is you have to be a stern parent from the very beginning with a child. If you're not, then before you know it your kid is outta control and then when you finally do try to take action the kid rebels even more. Worse yet when you try to scold your child he/she screams 'child abuse' and gets away with a false claim because of our wussified politically correct world.

Life in the 50's - when people stayed married once married - Children actually respected their elders. Wow to live back then must have been great.

[glorybebe]

Yes parents need to be parents, and THEY need to be their friends. If a parent loves their children and is there for them at all times, kept a close eye on them, correct them when need corrected while the kids are growing up, teach right from wrong we wouldnt have the crime today. Alot of parents these days are just lazy and wannna sleep, do their partying, their drugs, etc. and not pay any attention to the kids. Then you have parents who are afraid to discipline their kids when they need to be corrected only because DHS ( Department of Human Services ) has it in the kids' mind that if the parents gives them a spanking, all they have to do is call DHS and turn the parents in for beating the kid and they will get to go away to this happy happy land forever. However this isnt how DHS works, They say spank you kids when needed but there is a difference from discipline ( spanking ) and beating. But parents are scared they will go to jail, get their kids taken away, whatever... I dont care who you are if you dont discipline your children when needed then you are just as bad as the ones who dont care what their children do. Its all part of parenting.

As far as a parent being the child's friend... if they cant turn to you for advice, to talk to you about this or that, then what are you there for?

They need the parents, not only to be mom and dad, but they need you to listen to them whether its to talk or when they have something bothering them. Alot of kids will seek someone who will listen to them if the parents dont, this can draw them to the wrong crowds, to drugs, etc.

My kids and i are close, when something is bothering them, i am the only person who is there for them. I believe that i am the mother, its my responsibility to teach them right from wrong, show them love, be there for them -- period. I will not allow anyone to step in my place and take care of my kids, due to being lazy and not wanting to take care of them, wont happen. Not only am i their mother, im also their best friend!

My daughter comes to me with her problems and we talk about them. Yet, I am a strict disciplinarian. She respects me and loves me and has faith that I will do everything in my power to protect her from hard and help her deal with her problems. When I said not be their friends, I mean don't get drunk with them, do drugs with them, not discipline them...I have seen people like this. They don't discipline because they want their children to like them and think of them as a friend. They NEED moms and dads, not another friend.

[IronGhost]

The problem is you have to be a stern parent from the very beginning with a child. If you're not, then before you know it your kid is outta control and then when you finally do try to take action the kid rebels even more. Worse yet when you try to scold your child he/she screams 'child abuse' and gets away with a false claim because of our wussified politically correct world.

Life in the 50's - when people stayed married once married - Children actually respected their elders. Wow to live back then must have been great.

But if that's true, why did all the children of the 50s become the hippies of the 1960s? Indeed, why did the wild years of the 1960 follow directly from the "blissful" Ozzie and Harriet years. Why did America trade Andy Griffith and Maybary for Haite Ashbury Park, and the Stones' "Devil Concert" at Altamont?

[Primeval]

if a woman and her son went out together into the real woods and chopped down a real tree every day, and then used that wood to heat their homes, their would be alot less shootings by aliented kids because they would experience the experience of chopping down a tree and then get the real feeling of the wamth is produces when they burn it.

Your whole argument in completely unrealistic impossible and could never materialize in the civilization we live in.

[thump]

My daughter comes to me with her problems and we talk about them. Yet, I am a strict disciplinarian. She respects me and loves me and has faith that I will do everything in my power to protect her from hard and help her deal with her problems. When I said not be their friends, I mean don't get drunk with them, do drugs with them, not discipline them...I have seen people like this. They don't discipline because they want their children to like them and think of them as a friend. They NEED moms and dads, not another friend.

If someone is drinking with them, doin drugs, etc... you really things thats a " friend " ? No its not.. yes the kids think they are their friend, but any parent who has a level head knows better. They wouldnt do anything that could harm the child. If a parent thinks partying, drugs, alcohol, etc is the answer then they dont need their kids.

Sorry im just a straight up person, and say things as i see them.. not meaning any offense to anyone, just it bites me when parents arent parents and the childs friend.. i agree there is a difference in being their friend ( listening to them being the best parent u can be, etc), and " friend " ( partying, drugs, alcohol ). The parent needs to b there for their child at all times, no u cant watch them 24/7 but you can still be there for them, be their best friend, and teach them right n wrong.

[IronGhost]

Your whole argument in completely unrealistic impossible and could never materialize in the civilization we live in.

You're probably right, which is why our civizilation is in such deep trouble.

Again, all these comments here about "parenting" being both the cause and solution to the problem of violence are mere Band-Aid suggestions. The problem is much deeper and more entrenched.

We need to ask basic questions to get to the heart of the problem:

Why do so many young people want a tattoo? Because a tattoo is a pictoral symbol. They subconsciously think: "If I could only take a symbol, which is unreal, and actually make it become a part of my body, which I think is real, then maybe that symbol would be real, and I could feel more comfortable about my surrounding world." The symbols would seem real after all -- but after they get a tattoo, it doesn't get them in touch with reality after all. A symbol is still a symbol whether it is printed on the skin, on paper or is buzzing on the Internet or TV. So the tattoo only keeps the pressure cooker cooking.

Why do so many kids get their body pierced? Because it is a symbol of something, and the pain of the piercing is an added bonus in that it provides the desperately needed reality of pain.

Why do so many kids love "extreme" sports? Because they are desperate for true animal emotions.

Why do so many kids spend hours upon hours shooting things in video games? Because it's a purely symbolic world, is unreal, and is symbolizing what they feel really needs to be done to break through the layers of symbolism they're trapped within.

It become a short step to go out and actuallt start killing real people because it's a desperate attempt to see if anything really is real -- they're trying to shatter their entire world view and get to some basic kind of reality.

A change in parenting style is nothing. It leaves everyone trapped in the same set of illusions.

Edited December 11, 2007 by IronGhost

[Primeval]

My daughter comes to me with her problems and we talk about them. Yet, I am a strict disciplinarian. She respects me and loves me and has faith that I will do everything in my power to protect her from hard and help her deal with her problems. When I said not be their friends, I mean don't get drunk with them, do drugs with them, not discipline them...I have seen people like this. They don't discipline because they want their children to like them and think of them as a friend. They NEED moms and dads, not another friend.

I would prefer to not shield kids from reality, (or prepare them) and have them learn from their mistakes. Discipline is also bad, kids will learn on their own from something called cause and effect (kid steals something = punishment from authorities) (kid helps out the homeless = gains praise and recognition). As far as I'm concerned, the only purpose of parents is to give kids a roof to sleep under and put food on the table, until their old enough to work (in my sweat factory).

[Primeval]

You're probably right, which is why our civizilation is in such deep trouble.

Again, all these comments here about "parenting" being both the cause and solution to the problem of violence are mere Band-Aid suggestions. The problem is much deeper and more entrenched.

"Only after disaster can we be resurrected" if ya know what I mean.

[Bob26003]

I remember the last thread about the mall shooter.

Everybody just said he was some lone nut and there was no reason to even care why he did it.

Well, bam! Told you it would happen again.

[Spurious George]

"Only after disaster can we be resurrected" if ya know what I mean.

"... for everyone else interested in health and renewal it is a brilliant new dawn. This momentous change is of the near future, looming and portentous angry and promising like a storm on the horizon. People fear the consequences but the shrewd revel in the bountiful opportunities bestowed by the aftermath for the best time to rebuild is after the storm."

[Michelle]

I remember the last thread about the mall shooter.

Everybody just said he was some lone nut and there was no reason to even care why he did it.

Well, bam! Told you it would happen again.

Show me ONE person that said that...

[BiffSplitkins]

But if that's true, why did all the children of the 50s become the hippies of the 1960s? Indeed, why did the wild years of the 1960 follow directly from the "blissful" Ozzie and Harriet years. Why did America trade Andy Griffith and Maybary for Haite Ashbury Park, and the Stones' "Devil Concert" at Altamont?

At least they didn't run around killing each other.

LSD was one of the biggest mind openers ever. A strong enough drug to actually change the way an entire generation thought how life should be. Personally, I've never tripped in my life. From all the reading I've done it seems that time period that was one of the most profound changes in cultural history. I believe that was the start of our downward spiral in society. 'Political Correctness' soon came after. Now it is to such extreme that a parent isn't allowed to punish children they way they used to be in the 50's etc.

Nowadays it's "Tommy, you've been a naughty little boy for hitting your sister. I'm going to put you in a timeout chair - is that ok with you?"

Are you kidding me - that KILLS me when I hear a parent ask a child if it's 'ok with them' if they are punished. I've actually seen/heard this happen. That is what I mean when I say wussified politically correct generation.

[Michelle]

You can't lump everyone that's done this together, any more than you can lump all Christians together.

[BiffSplitkins]

I would prefer to not shield kids from reality, (or prepare them) and have them learn from their mistakes. Discipline is also bad, kids will learn on their own from something called cause and effect (kid steals something = punishment from authorities) (kid helps out the homeless = gains praise and recognition). As far as I'm concerned, the only purpose of parents is to give kids a roof to sleep under and put food on the table, until their old enough to work (in my sweat factory).

You are insane!!! Let kids learn from their own mistakes??? Killing someone in a mall is NO mistake.

[Stixxman]

maybe if more kids experienced REAL death up close by either hunting for food they will eat or witnessing an autopsy, they might learn a little respect for the frailty of life. Anecdotes are fine but relaity is where we live so that is how we should teach children. Abstracts are too confusing, the lessons must be poignant and explicit enough to make it through.

[goalienan]

Come on, how many things are we going to blame on these kids....Bad parenting, one parent, latchkey kids, video game, tatoos, body pierciing.......Iron Ghost, i usually agree with your posts, but the tatoos and body piercing didn't make it with me....Tatoos have been around forever, symbolic yes, as when prisoners were tatooed...body piercing, it's a fad. A kid doesn't get his tongue pierced and then go shooting up a school, extreme sports, what kid doesn't want to do good at something he or she excels at....The times have changed, and not for the best.........I do agree that if a kid is bought up in a household where the parents are constantly drinking or doing drugs, they will follow, but not all.There are kids out there who want to better themselves and not be like their parents....And there are kids that come from good homes, and have turned against society....I don't think we will ever have an answer as to why these things happen. It would be wonderful to wake up one morning and know that peace as returned and things are the way they used to be, but that's far fetched.....Kids with the right kind of parents can learn from their mistakes, if they want to...Peer pressure is another big factor with these kids...The best of kids can get involved with the wrong crowd and unless they don't have guidance from family will wind up doing something insane.......So where does it end....or does it.........