355 replies to this topic

[Chrlzs]

nopeda, on 06 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

..That means something MUST make adjustments to the velocity of light. That much is not in question

I'm sorry, but that is completely wrong.  You really, *really*, need to find a good book or website for beginners on relativity.  Nothing 'makes adjustments' to light speed - it is constant in a vacuum, slightly slower in other media.  This is quite well understood and proven, and the concept is used in so many applications (even day-to-day ones like GPS) and in so many mathematical constructs (ones that you clearly accept by other content you have posted), that you can't make such a claim.

[Slave2Fate]

nopeda, on 06 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

There are significant velocities between Earth and many objects that it receives light from. Some of those objects are moving toward the Earth at significant velocities, and some away from it. Yet the light from all of those objects is found to impact this planet and the few other places humans have been able to test at the same velocity relative to this planet. That means something MUST make adjustments to the velocity of light. That much is not in question, and in fact that is the starting line. If you can't get that far, then you can't get to the starting line. If you can, then maybe you can at some point comprehend that if light moves much faster than we think outside of the adjustment area, that could explain how even light from objects moving away from us still arrives at the same velocity relative to Earth, so it is still slowed down instead of speeded up as it seems it might need to be, when it enters the adjustment area.

Okay, first of all, the speed of light being a measured constant from any give source should tell you that it is because of the very properties of light itself, not some outside agency. Second, and more in keeping with the topic, you still have not given any hypothesis or even idea of what that has to do with alien life.

Edit: clarification.

Edited by Slave2Fate, 06 February 2013 - 09:30 PM.

[DONTEATUS]

So what FTL ship do a hitch a ride on in that case ? If I hop on one going away from me will I be late to dinner at Millieways ?

[psyche101]

nopeda, on 06 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Who's Lilly?

A very lovely, intelligent, and witty moderator.

nopeda, on 06 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

When I suggested that beings who could travel between star systems would most likely NOT bring their only way of existing down to a planet like this but instead send remotely controlled probably bioligical beings of some sort so they wouldn't be likely to get killed here you accused me of plagiarising some movie. Then later I mentioned some other likely possibility I forget which one it was and you accused me of plagiarising it from a movie I've never seen.

That has nothing to do with what Abe and I were discussing. Some bad blood here, we both know that, no need to carry on. I am trying to meet you halfway and understand your concept. Your description of light being slowed according to varying mediums is certainly an idea I think is worthy of discussion. Perhaps we should stick to that.

nopeda, on 06 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

A solar system is nothing. It's a lot when that's all you're capable of since it's as much as you can do, but in reality it's nothing and certainly not even close to a great distance, and it's a gross distortion of reality to try pretending that it is.

It is a lot to us, and our pool of one. I agree that distance is a pittance compared to space as a whole, but we have left the solar system. It might be a small step, but in any perspective, the first steps are significant. It has taught us that space is big, dangerous, and given us a good idea of what we are likely to encounter as our journey into space gains momentum. I feel it is an achievement, and one to be proud of.

[psyche101]

nopeda, on 06 February 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

I don't believe that space or time exist, and of course also not any sort of fabric of spacetime or anything like that. People used to call it the ether, and I believe that idea is what some people think of as dark matter. To me dark matter is just matter that doesn't either give off enough electromagnetic radiation that we can detect it, or reflect enough that we can detect it. That being the case I certainly have no problem at all believing there's a lot more dark matter than visible, and it doesn't involve any fabric or ether or whatever...

It seems most likely to me that whatever makes the adjustment is influencing our local area and however far away. Maybe the influence of magnetospheres. I wouldn't be surprised if it's something else, but that's all I've been able to think of so far that might do it.

Would not stronger influences that warp light now perhaps be more likely to influence the speed of a photon? Maybe a Magnetar, or massive suns like VY Canis Major? We have star clusters, could some type of Magnetar or black hole cluster exist that creates a field such as you suggest to alter the speed of light  but if so, when the photon returns to normal space and has been warped from it's path, I would suspect that determining the direction of the photon without knowing the nature of the field would make it near impossible to determine the source to begin with. How would one test this?

[psyche101]

nopeda, on 06 February 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

psyche tends to think small, from my past experiences with him. A dozen lightyears is nothing, even if no beings in the universe have ever been more than 2 lightyears away from home. I don't have any trouble believing there are beings who can get around a lot more than that though. From my pov reaching ftl velocities wouldn't be the biggest problem. The biggest problem would be preventing obliteration from contact with even pebble or smaller sized objects when moving at such high impact velocities, imo.

You might thikn I think small, but I think you have a tendency to overreach. Just like this stupid dig, totally unnecessary, however, why do you think attaining FTL is so easy? I agree that even hydrogen molecules at such speeds would be considered a dangerous object, but so is creating a warp field. If you do that too close to a planet, you will obliterate the planet you have come to visit. If we have to come out of warped space far enough away to be safe, we still have a decent journey to the destination.

[bison]

DONTEATUS, on 06 February 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

So what FTL ship do a hitch a ride on in that case ? If I hop on one going away from me will I be late to dinner at Millieways ?

Late for the End of the Universe? Now wouldn't that be embarrassing!

[DONTEATUS]

At least theres a few people in here that know what the number 42 is !

[bison]

Six times seven is the answer, but I forgot the question!

[shaddow134]

DONTEATUS, on 06 February 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

At least theres a few people in here that know what the number 42 is !

It's the Answer to the ultimate Question of Life,the Universe and everything.Just love Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy,especially the original BBC version.

[bison]

Too bad *that* answer to *that* question never made much sense! Just Mr. Adams' way of telling us the universe is  and always will remain a mystery? I like the BBC radio version the best, too.

[Detective Mystery 2013]

Humans are more resilient than some "experts" think. I doubt that most people's belief systems would be destroyed or devastated by the discovery of life on some moon or planet. Your faith is extremely weak if you abandon it due to the disclosure of alien life. We can handle the truth.

[scowl]

Jacques Terreur, on 06 February 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

compared to the vastness of space, the part we have observed yet (including the voyager travel) is so tiny, we just don't know what's out there and what's not.

But here's what we do know: life required a series of extremely unlikely occurrences to happen here on Earth. It continues to require conditions that very favorable to continue. The odds of that happening to another planet could be an extremely large number, larger than the mere 100-400 billion stars we have in our galaxy. Astrophysicists regularly deal with these kinds of probabilities.

Quote

And not only this, but lately, the possible existence of multiple universes is not a topic left to fringe scientists alone anymore.

Only for the desperate.

Quote

In my opinion, there IS life out there, other civilisations or just microbes. Wether we find it or not is a whole different story though...

In my opinion you really really really want life to exist someplace else for some reason, but typing in capital letters won't change anything. The more I learn about life on Earth, the more I realize how incredibly special Earth is and how less likely someplace else was as fortunate. I think science fiction has promoted the idea that there are Earth-like planets everywhere. No wonder people are trashing this one.

[Seeker79]

nopeda, on 06 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

There are significant velocities between Earth and many objects that it receives light from. Some of those objects are moving toward the Earth at significant velocities, and some away from it. Yet the light from all of those objects is found to impact this planet and the few other places humans have been able to test at the same velocity relative to this planet. That means something MUST make adjustments to the velocity of light. That much is not in question, and in fact that is the starting line. If you can't get that far, then you can't get to the starting line. If you can, then maybe you can at some point comprehend that if light moves much faster than we think outside of the adjustment area, that could explain how even light from objects moving away from us still arrives at the same velocity relative to Earth, so it is still slowed down instead of speeded up as it seems it might need to be, when it enters the adjustment area.

Ehhh? Don't think so. there are no Adjustments. Some difference in media. The conductivity of space dosnt change. Why? well... No one knows, but it probably has something to with the rules governing infomation transfer between virtual particles on the planck level. Just a guess though.

Edited by Seeker79, 07 February 2013 - 05:42 AM.

[Jacques Terreur]

scowl, on 07 February 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

In my opinion you really really really want life to exist someplace else for some reason,....

Seriously, there are things that i really, really want, but that's not one of them. In the last years, we found places here on earth of which nobody thought life could be possible before. In MY opinion, it just makes more sense for life to be spread everywhere than to be limited to this planet. You don't have to agree with that. And i type in capitals sometimes because i DAMN like it!

Edited by Jacques Terreur, 07 February 2013 - 05:48 AM.