438 replies to this topic

[Soul Kitchen]

Nazi Aliens/Commie Aliens > Ancient Aliens/Spiritual Aliens

[DONTEATUS]

You forgot Chineese Aliens,American Indian Aliens,West Side Stroy Aliens,and Blue Men Aliens, And last but not least OBAMA aliens.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

psyche101, on 27 May 2011 - 03:27 AM, said:

The crash was close to Roswell Army Airfield, where the worlds only nuclear capable bomber group resided. It was also close to Project MOGUL operations, which spied on the Soviets.

Not advocating the theory, but there is a couple reasons.

And that, surely, just as much as the suggestion of crashing in the middle of Washington, is all the proof one could need of the preposterousness of the whole theory. Leaving aside all the silliness about genetically modified mutants, it might be worth bearing in mind that the last thing Stalin wanted was a war with the US, before he'd been able to develop his Bomb, and that's what this kind of adventure would inevitably have led to.

[skyeagle409]

psyche101, on 27 May 2011 - 03:27 AM, said:

The crash was close to Roswell Army Airfield, where the worlds only nuclear capable bomber group resided. It was also close to Project MOGUL operations, which spied on the Soviets.

Not advocating the theory, but there is a couple reasons.

Project Mogul balloons were not spy balloons, they were simply research balloons, and, they were not classified. That is why questionnaires were attached so anyone who recovers Mogul balloons could add their own data input such as location, time, and rate of decent if known, etc.

A former KGB agent did a televised interview and stated that the Roswell incident is what brought the special attention of Joseph Stalin and of the Soviet Union.

Edited by skyeagle409, 27 May 2011 - 07:29 AM.

[psyche101]

skyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 07:25 AM, said:

Project Mogul balloons were not spy balloons, they were simply research balloons, and, they were not classified. That is why questionnaires were attached so anlyone who recovers Mogul balloons, could add their own data input, such as location, time and rate of decent if known, etc.

Good God you are boring.

No, MOGUL Balloons were not classified, the data they gathered was, and the resultant project. Hence the compartmentalisation. Not like you needed to pop that in as we have been over this a billion times already, I said MOGUL Spied on the Soviets, surely you agree with that?

[psyche101]

747400, on 27 May 2011 - 06:48 AM, said:

And that, surely, just as much as the suggestion of crashing in the middle of Washington, is all the proof one could need of the preposterousness of the whole theory. Leaving aside all the silliness about genetically modified mutants, it might be worth bearing in mind that the last thing Stalin wanted was a war with the US, before he'd been able to develop his Bomb, and that's what this kind of adventure would inevitably have led to.

Hard to say really, Stalin was a madman, and the Cold War was with the states for global domination. Not much seemed to stand in his way when he wanted something. Good point, but when dealing with someone like Stalin, I feel it would be hard to say.

[skyeagle409]

psyche101, on 27 May 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

Good God you are boring.

Just presenting the facts.

Mogul balloons were occasionally recovered by civilians within the U.S., not in the Soviet Union. One Mogul balloon was recovered by a lone policeman in Flatbush, after the balloon snagged itself on the roof of a tarvern. The Soviet's first nuke blast was discovered by a modified B-29, not a Mogul balloon. As I've said before, Mogul balloons were nothing more than unclassified research balloons.

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No, MOGUL Balloons were not classified, the data they gathered was, and the resultant project.

The data gather by Project Mogul balloons was for research purposes only.

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Hence the compartmentalisation.

That doesn't make any sense considering that even the name; Project Mogul was not classified, so there was no need to ccompartmentalize simple unclassified research balloons.

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I said MOGUL Spied on the Soviets, surely you agree with that?

Well, what does history have to say about that?

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U.S. Intelligence and the Detection of the First Soviet Nuclear Test, September 1949

Joe-1, 29 August 1949.  Photo from Peter Curan’s film "Trinity and Beyond: The Atomic Bomb Movie," as displayed on nuclearweaponsarchive.org, and used with permission of Peter Curan.Washington, DC, September 22, 2009 - Sixty years ago this week, on 23 September 1949, President Harry Truman made headlines when he announced that the Soviet Union had secretly tested a nuclear weapon several weeks earlier. Truman did not explain how the United States had detected the test, which had occurred on 29 August 1949 at Semipalatinsk, a site in northeastern Kazakhstan. Using declassified material, much of which has never been published, this briefing book documents how the U.S. Air Force, the Atomic Energy Commission, and U.S. scientific intelligence worked together to detect a nuclear test that intelligence analysts, still unaware of the extent to which the Soviets had penetrated the Manhattan Project, did not expect so soon.

Stalin and the Soviet Politburo were probably stunned by Truman's announcement; they did not know that Washington had a surveillance system for detecting the tell-tale signs of a nuclear test and they wanted secrecy to avoid giving the United States an incentive to accelerate its nuclear weapons activities. (Note 1) Joe-1 (as U.S. intelligence designated it) was also a jolt for U.S. intelligence analysis, which for several years had asserted that the Soviets were unlikely to have the bomb before mid-1953, although mid-1950 was also possible. A few weeks after the test, CIA director Roscoe Hillenkoetter argued that "I don't think we were taken by surprise" because of an error of only a "few months," but not all of his Congressional masters accepted that.


How did the Truman administration discover Moscow’s secret?

Shortly after the Soviet test, on 1 September 1949, a WB-29 ["W" for weather reconnaissance] operated by the Air Force's Weather Service undertook a routine flight from Misawa Air Force Base (Japan) to Eilson Air Force Base (Alaska) on behalf of the secretive Air Force Office of Atomic Energy-1 [AFOAT-1] [later renamed the Air Force Technical Applications Center, or AFTAC]. The plane carried special filters designed to pick up the radiological debris that an atmospheric atomic test would inevitably create.  So far none of the flights in the Northern Pacific had picked up a scent, but after this flight returned to Eilson and a huge Geiger counter checked the filters, the technicians detected radioactive traces.

This was the 112th alert of the Atomic Energy Detection System (the previous 111 had been caused by natural occurrences, such as earthquakes). After a complex chain of events, involving more flights to collect more air samples, consultations among U.S. government scientists, consultants, and contractors, including radiological analysis by Tracerlab and Los Alamos Laboratory, and secret consultations with the British government, the U.S. intelligence community concluded that Moscow had indeed conducted a nuclear test. On 23 September 1949, President Truman announced that "We have evidence that within recent weeks an atomic explosion occurred in the U.S.S.R."

What made the detection of Joe-1 possible in the first place was a series of decisions that began in 1947. In September of that year, Army Chief of Staff Dwight D. Eisenhower assigned the Army Air Force, not yet an independent service, with responsibility for establishing an Atomic Energy Detection System (AEDS) so that physical manifestations of overseas nuclear development activity could be discovered. Later that year, the Air Force created what would later become known as AFOAT-1. During and after World War II, the possibility of detecting radioactive particles and emissions (as well as seismic and acoustic indicators) became the subject of protracted research and development work, which included the collection of radioactive samples following U.S. atomic tests. During 1947-1949, a complex process of review and decision at the Defense Department led to the creation of an "Interim Surveillance Research Net" that was operating routinely by the spring of 1949. A more comprehensive surveillance system integrating radiochemical, seismic, acoustic, and other methods was not yet in place.



My link

As I've said before, the Air Force mislead the Public on Project Mogul. The Soviet's first test was detected by an airplane, not a Mogul balloon train.

[psyche101]

skyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

Just presenting the facts.

Again, and again, and again, and again..................

skyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

Mogul balloons were occasionally recovered by civilians within the U.S., not in the Soviet Union. One Mogul balloon was recovered by a lone policeman in Flatbush, after the balloon snagged itself on the roof of a tarvern. The Soviet's first nuke blast was discovered by a modified B-29, not a Mogul balloon. As I've said before, Mogul balloons were nothing more than unclassified research balloons.

And this affects what I said how?

Big clue - it does not. And you are 100% wrong about the classification of the project, it was the balloons that could not be classified. How do you classify a 600 foot balloon train floating over a populated area? You cannot. Hence the compartmentalisation.
This is the bit you always struggle with.

skyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

The data gather by Project Mogul balloons was for research purposes only.

To see if it was a viable method, and it was better than predecessors, it is just that it was superseded yet again. And?

skyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

That doesn't make any sense considering that even the name; Project Mogul was not classified, so there was no need to ccompartmentalize simple unclassified research balloons.

Try wrapping your head around this yet agin.

Project MOGUL was classified. The Ballon trains were not.

skyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

Well, what does history have to say about that?

That the project was superseded, like all projects eventually are. That is why we call the change progress.

skyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

As I've said before, the Air Force mislead the Public on Project Mogul. The Soviet's first test was detected by an airplane, not a Mogul balloon train.

No they did not, you just do not understand Project MOGUL. Such is quite evident in your posting. Just because the projects successor managed to do what MOGUL was designed to do changes nothing. You are simply doing your best to dirty the name of the USAF. Shameful to rag on what you claim to be be your ex employer with no good reason like that.


We have discussed this millions of times, you just want to flame someone on Roswell as is painfully obvious from your difficulty in keeping your word in the BE thread. You are really boring me with this same conversation yet again, bother someone else with repetition would you?

Edited by psyche101, 27 May 2011 - 08:03 AM.

[lost_shaman]

psyche101, on 27 May 2011 - 07:32 AM, said:

Hard to say really, Stalin was a madman, and the Cold War was with the states for global domination. Not much seemed to stand in his way when he wanted something. Good point, but when dealing with someone like Stalin, I feel it would be hard to say.

I agree with you about Stalin. Also the communist party itself propped Stalin up the whole time despite all the purges!

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

psyche101, on 27 May 2011 - 07:32 AM, said:

Hard to say really, Stalin was a madman, and the Cold War was with the states for global domination. Not much seemed to stand in his way when he wanted something. Good point, but when dealing with someone like Stalin, I feel it would be hard to say.

Actually i don't think Stalin was insane, not in international relations at any rate. He was very keen to avoid conflict with anywhere before the war (hence the non-aggression pact with Hitler), and after '45 he was very anxious not to provoke conflict with the West, at any rate until he'd got the Bomb - which of course he hadn't in '47.  He pushed things as far as he could with the blockade of Berlin, but he could have gone a lot further - just shooting down the British and American planes  - if he'd really wanted to provoke a conflict.

[skyeagle409]

psyche101, on 27 May 2011 - 07:59 AM, said:

Again, and again, and again, and again..................

Question is, Are you learning anything from history?

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Big clue - it does not. And you are 100% wrong about the classification of the project, it was the balloons that could not be classified. How do you classify a 600 foot balloon train floating over a populated area? You cannot. Hence the compartmentalisation.
This is the bit you always struggle with.

You mention "compartmentalization," regarding Project Mogul, and yet, the name: Project Mogul appeared in an unclassified letter.

Quote

No they did not, you just do not understand Project MOGUL. Such is quite evident in your posting. Just because the projects successor managed to do what MOGUL was designed to do changes nothing. You are simply doing your best to dirty the name of the USAF. Shameful to rag on what you claim to be be your ex employer with no good reason like that.

Well, I respect the Air Force in more ways than one, however, I have slammed the Air Force for misleading the public on UFOs, and I am not alone. Others with the Air Force itself, have done the same, including the Air Force's proejct officer who supplied  material used in the Air Force's 1997 Roswell Report. When he saw that the Air Force maniupulated his material, he went public and spoke out and revealed in the Washington Post what I knew all along.
I understand a lot more about Project Mogul than you think, which is why I  have told you that you were simply  wrong.

Edited by skyeagle409, 27 May 2011 - 08:44 AM.

[DONTEATUS]

So where`s all the Real Alien Stuff ?
Are we to believe that Its all buried and Locked away 4-eva ?
Im thinking ITs all a Smoke Screen,and Popcycles-a-gandas . Very few people really believe we have Alien Tech stuffed away underground.
And even less beleive we have Little Grey,Green,Blue Alien creatures busy working away in those crib`s underground doinf rubic`s cubes and Cooking Horta`s for Dinner.
That being said
Im getting Hungry ! Anyone For some B.B.Q ? And THe Monaco G.P ?

[ohio state buckeyes]

Finally something that alien believe and disbelieve can agree on that woman is a loon. Say what you want about ufo peoples proof at lest they show it.

[ohio state buckeyes]

ABC News challenges Stalin’s Roswell UFO connection http://www.openminds...ea-51-book-697/

[Mike D boy]

Thanx for the link, OSB! I'm beginning to also sense the Roswell-Soviet-air balloon connection theory is really some wild "tall tale".   Whatever scientific studies attempt to explain doesn't end the mysterious circumstances surrounding the Roswell incident. Other UFO crashes occurred before and after Roswell, therefore all alledged UFO crash sites need investigation.