Cody lee Williams Posted August 12, 2005 #1 Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) This post is about shangri-La and Shambhala whether you think they are one in the same or to different places entirely. Ok this is from a web site i bumped into its an interview with a guy who went looking for the city read it here or at http://www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/1999/6/3_1.html Newsweek International, May 31, 1999 In every culture, there is this dream of some sanctuary where the best of civilization can be preserved.^×Ian Baker Shangri-La, the legendary paradise of the 1933 novel "Lost Horizon," is based on Tibetan Buddhist legends of mystical sanctuaries, called beyuls, hidden within secluded Himalayan valleys. Using directions deciphered from eighth-century Tibetan Buddhist texts, American explorer Ian Baker, 41, searched five years to find a route into the beyul of Pemako, in a wilderness region of eastern Tibet. On Nov. 8, 1998, he and two other Americans in his 10-man expedition reached a previously uncharted waterfall on Tibet's Tsangpo River. (The National Geographic Society, which sponsored the expedition, subsequently named Baker one of its six "Explorers for the Millennium.") A rock portal there leads into a mysterious valley, but Baker and the others were unable to enter it, and since then China has closed the area to further foreign exploration. In Katmandu, Baker talked about his quest for Shangri-La with NEWSWEEK's Patricia Roberts. Excerpts: ROBERTS: Why does the myth of Shangri-La endure? BAKER: I think in every culture, there is this millennial dream of some kind of sanctuary where the best of civilization on every level can be preserved. That's what Shangri-La was. It was the "Valley of the Blue Moon," a place where time no longer existed in the way we think of it, where we could live for hundreds of years. The concept of Shangri-La had an impact, whether consciously or unconsciously, on a whole generation. The book came out between the two world wars, a time when civilization as it was known was suddenly in question. Is the fictional Shangri-La based on an actual place? The references for the book ["Lost Horizon"] came very clearly from reports made by explorers in the Tsangpo Gorge. What motivated you to explore that particular area? I was intrigued because I was approaching it more from the Tibetan literary and oral tradition than a purely geographical one. Tibetan texts, even though they're wildly visionary, are always based on something concrete. There is a description of three waterfalls, the middle one being described as a doorway, a portal into the inner, secret Pemako. It seemed to me that if this waterfall were so strong a feature of the landscape that they could envision it as a gateway to a hidden paradise, then this was a waterfall worth trying to find. Actually, how do you get there? You drive about three days east of Lhasa to a point halfway between the eastern border of Bhutan and the western border of Burma, right where the Tsangpo River makes a great bend and flows south into the jungles of Arunachal Pradesh. From there you walk days and days through any number of different passes that lead you over the eastern ramparts of the Himalayan range, down into this subtropical region off the Tibetan Plateau. What are the major obstacles? It's an extremely wet rain forest, full of leeches and pit vipers. The trails are seasonal; they often disappear. Camping is very difficult. Often we excavated for hours to make a place to put up a single tent. Some areas of Pemako have the densest population of Bengal tigers left in the world. There is one valley where yetis [Abominable Snowmen] are believed to be, and the people believe they're dangerous. Is the area inhabited? The local people are Lobas, fierce animistic warriors who were converted to Buddhism by early lamas. They live in little villages perched on high terraces above the Tsangpo. Poison cults [women who poison people in order to acquire their good fortune] are believed to be quite prolific in the area. Your discovery has been challenged by other explorers. Are you certain you were the first? When we reached the falls we were aware that the Chinese were in the upper gorge, several miles upriver from us, and were going to attempt to go through this area. At the end of January an article came out in the China Daily titled "Chinese Explorers Reach Waterfall First." They may have seen this waterfall after us, but there's absolutely no question that they were not there before us. The Chinese government closed the area after your expedition. Why? The area had suddenly become known, and was being promoted as the "Mount Everest of Gorges." But a Chinese expedition reported in mid-December the area is full of incredible botanical riches and species that are unknown, and tourism could be disastrous for the environment. If the area is opened again, will you return? Absolutely. Apparently there are several routes into the inner paradise. The openings will only appear to the right person at the right time. The texts talk about periods of declining environmental conditions, many new diseases suddenly appearing and more crime and fighting. The forces of ignorance, greed and aggression will be magnified at a time when a sanctuary such as Pemako would be the essential support for a spiritual or contemplative life. So in many ways the time definitely seems to be right. And a lot of lamas have supported that. They say this is the dark age. It's when times are darkest that these hidden lands will be opened. Edited August 13, 2005 by Cody lee Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakar Posted August 12, 2005 #2 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Cody - could you please put up the link - Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody lee Williams Posted August 12, 2005 Author #3 Share Posted August 12, 2005 There you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isis-999 Posted August 12, 2005 #4 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Thank-you, it was a very long post. But well worth the time to read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody lee Williams Posted August 12, 2005 Author #5 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Im glad you like it.I think so to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marduk Posted August 12, 2005 #6 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Shangri La is any place on Earth that God has no control over its allegorical for enlightenment. the buddhists just keep the story circulating because it drums up the tourist trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody lee Williams Posted August 12, 2005 Author #7 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Maybe to a point but i do believe there is some truth to it. The only way to know for sure is the go march around the himalayas! Puts on snow shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marduk Posted August 12, 2005 #8 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Maybe to a point but i do believe there is some truth to it. The only way to know for sure is the go march around the himalayas! Puts on snow shoes. 786806[/snapback] Funnily enough people have been doing that fro hundreds of years they 've also flown over it and had satellites take picture fo the entire area guess what they didn't find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody lee Williams Posted August 12, 2005 Author #9 Share Posted August 12, 2005 If there more advanced than us that stands to reason. Also people may get lost but some may just find it and stay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marduk Posted August 12, 2005 #10 Share Posted August 12, 2005 If there more advanced than us that stands to reason. Also people may get lost but some may just find it and stay 786816[/snapback] They are neither more advanced than us or well hidden more none existent if youre looking it up on a map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody lee Williams Posted August 12, 2005 Author #11 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Thats your view and i respect it but i dont follow it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marduk Posted August 12, 2005 #12 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Thats your view and i respect it but i dont follow it 786832[/snapback] You think that a few buddhist monks are smarter than me oh thats nasty theyre not you know theyre just smarter than the tourists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 12, 2005 #13 Share Posted August 12, 2005 They recently found a 400 foot waterfull in a California Provincial Park. Park rangers have been foresting that spot for 25 years, and recently an old man stumbled upon it, even though he lived there himself for 17 years. Sattelite photos of the park have been taken as well, part of the mapping scheme, they as well missed the 400 foot waterfall. If something this big can be missed by so many people parading in that area, there could be many caves in the world that have not yet been uncovered. Not saying I believe in the site myself, I just agree that there could be a spot that does exist, that we have still missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marduk Posted August 12, 2005 #14 Share Posted August 12, 2005 had people been searching for this waterfall since 1933 ? That 1933 date is quite important in th e case of Shangri la you see it first appeared in a book A fictional book that was sold in 1933 Shangri la is a fictional place described in the novel, Lost Horizon, written by British writer James Hilton in 1933. In it, "Shangri-La" is a mystical, harmonious valley, gently guided from a lamasery, enclosed in the western end of the Himalaya. Shangri-La has become synonymous with any earthly paradise but particularly a mythical Himalayan utopia - a permanently happy land, isolated from the outside world. The story of Shangri-La is based on the concept of Shambhala, a mystical city in the Buddhist religion. So are we still talking about Shangri La or should we change to a slightly more likely but less literal utopia like Mu or Lemuria funnily enough they were both invented by englishmen as well do you want to try for double jeopardy where the points can really count ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 12, 2005 #15 Share Posted August 12, 2005 The length of someone's search does not mean it doesn't exist. People to this day look for Noah's Ark, Garden of Eden, and other past mystical places. The Chinese found North America hundreds of years before the Spanish did as well. Doesn't mean North America did not exist, just takes the proper tools and resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marduk Posted August 12, 2005 #16 Share Posted August 12, 2005 The length of someone's search does not mean it doesn't exist. People to this day look for Noah's Ark, Garden of Eden, and other past mystical places. The Chinese found North America hundreds of years before the Spanish did as well. Doesn't mean North America did not exist, just takes the proper tools and resources. 787343[/snapback] The fact that it was created in the imagination of an englishman speaks volumes you still gonna look for it i can find out what cemetary hes buried in if you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 12, 2005 #17 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Like I said, I personally do not believe in it, I was just stating the fact that all of the wonders of the world have not been accounted for, new species are found yearly. I just wouldn't dis-credit people that do believe in the site, just because people have searched and have not found it too this day. I see your point, if it was an obvious location in the world, yes, it would of been dis-covered at this point in time, since it has not been discovered, it's easily dis-missed. However, just about everything on this forum is still in search of, or still trying to be proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody lee Williams Posted August 13, 2005 Author #18 Share Posted August 13, 2005 had people been searching for this waterfall since 1933 ? That 1933 date is quite important in th e case of Shangri la you see it first appeared in a book A fictional book that was sold in 1933 Shangri la is a fictional place described in the novel, Lost Horizon, written by British writer James Hilton in 1933. In it, "Shangri-La" is a mystical, harmonious valley, gently guided from a lamasery, enclosed in the western end of the Himalaya. Shangri-La has become synonymous with any earthly paradise but particularly a mythical Himalayan utopia - a permanently happy land, isolated from the outside world. The story of Shangri-La is based on the concept of Shambhala, a mystical city in the Buddhist religion. So are we still talking about Shangri La or should we change to a slightly more likely but less literal utopia like Mu or Lemuria funnily enough they were both invented by englishmen as well do you want to try for double jeopardy where the points can really count ? 787305[/snapback] To my understanding marduk shambhala and Shangri-La are one in the same. Yes it was in the book Lost Horizon but not invented in it. Im sure that Tibet is pleased with all of the tourist as well,but isn't that true of all most any myth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marduk Posted August 13, 2005 #19 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Shangri-La is the fictionalised version of the buddhist Shambhala, Shangri la never existed Shambhala i dont' know but Shambhala is off topic in this Shangri la thread right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody lee Williams Posted August 13, 2005 Author #20 Share Posted August 13, 2005 You can call a tomato a tomato or a tomoto but its still its self. I will up-date the post to fit the more literal of its viewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marduk Posted August 13, 2005 #21 Share Posted August 13, 2005 You can call a tomato a tomato or a tomoto but its still its self. I will up-date the post to fit the more literal of its viewers. 787532[/snapback] what if the tomato is rotten do you still call it a tomatoe or do you throw it in the bin and start again with an entirely new tomato whatever you do don't mention the "A" word or the "L" word or the "M" word cos they aren't real either I have proof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody lee Williams Posted August 13, 2005 Author #22 Share Posted August 13, 2005 (edited) No use arguing with a brick wall.Well to get back in the subject does any one know any info on people who have gone missing in search of it? Edited August 13, 2005 by Cody lee Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marduk Posted August 13, 2005 #23 Share Posted August 13, 2005 No use arguing with a brick wall.Well to get back in the subject does any one know any info on people who have gone missing in search of it? 787549[/snapback] A guy wrote a book about it once i expect a few went missing in that You understand this right people who go looking for Shangri La normally realise their mistake when they attempt to plan the trip like which airport is closest exactly ? Sometimes the brick wall is there for a reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody lee Williams Posted August 13, 2005 Author #24 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Well if no one tried to jump a brick wall every now and then or hike miles in the bone chilling cold in search of a legendary city what fun would life be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marduk Posted August 13, 2005 #25 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Well if no one tried to jump a brick wall every now and then or hike miles in the bone chilling cold in search of a legendary city what fun would life be? 787568[/snapback] What have Evil Kenevil and Ranulph Fiennes got to do with legendary cities ? hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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