172 replies to this topic

[Yamato]

freetoroam, on 22 January 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

and then has basically covered this.
if we lived on a world where  we can not say we have met nice people, no matter what religion, colour, sex or nationality they are, then we seriously would be in trouble.
please remember that this is about the islamic fundamentalists, and not about "Mr Arcmed" who although a muslim, has  integrated with the west and is not spewing hatred for the western country he has chosen to live in.

Mr. Ahmed.  And this is about him because it's him and others like him who must decide what it means to be a Muslim.   Not non-Muslim bullies traveling 7,000 miles away looking for a fight to pick.   We've had two generations of this going on one way, and one incident (9/11) of it happening the other.   If we're actually willing to think that we can shape the future of a religion with military force, we've lost our minds and have instead developed far too much blind faith in our interventionist bureaucracy.

[freetoroam]

Yamato, on 22 January 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Mr. Ahmed.  And this is about him because it's him and others like him who must decide what it means to be a Muslim.   Not non-Muslim bullies traveling 7,000 miles away looking for a fight to pick.   We've had two generations of this going on one way, and one incident (9/11) of it happening the other.   If we're actually willing to think that we can shape the future of a religion with military force, we've lost our minds and have instead developed far too much blind faith in our interventionist bureaucracy.

The name was just used as an example, it was not about anyone specific.
I am not in favour of going to muslim countries and trying to shape their future by military force, which so far has not had any effect on the muslims as a whole anyway. i am not in favour either of islamists coming to a western country spewing their hate on ours streets..
As it stands, if the islamists come here to fight against the government, that I could understand that, but that is not the case, they are coming here to live permanently and to enforce their religion and anti western values on us.  WE, the normal joe are not the people going to their countries, but we are the ones who have to put up with them because the human rights brigade say so.
Our governments are going to these countries because there is already war there...mainly between muslims and muslims, I say let them all kill each other if they want, but i am sure that those who say our governments should not be there trying to shape their future would soon be jumping down my throat saying we have to be there and help them....
So its a bit of a catch 22 situation, do we let them all kill each other and turn a blind eye, or do we go and help?  Considering it seems to be giving an excuse for the terrorists to come here,,,, then I say we stay away.
I say we should not be there,

[Yamato]

freetoroam, on 22 January 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

The name was just used as an example, it was not about anyone specific.
I am not in favour of going to muslim countries and trying to shape their future by military force, which so far has not had any effect on the muslims as a whole anyway. i am not in favour either of islamists coming to a western country spewing their hate on ours streets..
As it stands, if the islamists come here to fight against the government, that I could understand that, but that is not the case, they are coming here to live permanently and to enforce their religion and anti western values on us.  WE, the normal joe are not the people going to their countries, but we are the ones who have to put up with them because the human rights brigade say so.
Our governments are going to these countries because there is already war there...mainly between muslims and muslims, I say let them all kill each other if they want, but i am sure that those who say our governments should not be there trying to shape their future would soon be jumping down my throat saying we have to be there and help them....
So its a bit of a catch 22 situation, do we let them all kill each other and turn a blind eye, or do we go and help?  Considering it seems to be giving an excuse for the terrorists to come here,,,, then I say we stay away.
I say we should not be there,

I don't know where you're from but I suggest following the US example and adding an establishment clause to your Constitution and then you won't have to worry about your country being taken over by radical Islamists.  

Looking at the OP again, I'm glad we agree that declaring war and using military force is a bad idea.  

But no, my government didn't go to these countries because there was a war there already.  This policy isn't a decision of helping Muslims kill one another or not.   What governments are you talking about?

[freetoroam]

Yamato, on 22 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

I don't know where you're from but I suggest following the US example and adding an establishment clause to your Constitution and then you won't have to worry about your country being taken over by radical Islamists.  

Looking at the OP again, I'm glad we agree that declaring war and using military force is a bad idea.  

But no, my government didn't go to these countries because there was a war there already.  This policy isn't a decision of helping Muslims kill one another or not.   What governments are you talking about?

Nato and many other organisations  who go to these countries to "help", as for Afghanistan and Iraq, absolutely right, they were not going there to "help", if you exclude 'only themselves'.

[pallidin]

Yamato, on 22 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

I don't know where you're from but I suggest following the US example and adding an establishment clause to your Constitution and then you won't have to worry about your country being taken over by radical Islamists.  

Looking at the OP again, I'm glad we agree that declaring war and using military force is a bad idea.  

But no, my government didn't go to these countries because there was a war there already.  This policy isn't a decision of helping Muslims kill one another or not.   What governments are you talking about?

Yamato, not to put you on "the spot", forgive me if that is the thought.

My question is: are you OK with radical Islamic suicide bombers, or not.

Simple enough, I guess.

Edited by pallidin, 22 January 2013 - 11:26 PM.

[Yamato]

pallidin, on 22 January 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

are you OK with radical Islamic suicide bombers, or not.

Not from my own country, no.  I'm also not okay with radical non-Islamic homicide bombers.

[and then]

pallidin, on 22 January 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Yamato, not to put you on "the spot", forgive me if that is the thought.

My question is: are you OK with radical Islamic suicide bombers, or not.

Simple enough, I guess.

I was going to say, "good luck with that" but he responded before I could warn you.  Yam has an aversion to straightforward answers.  Master of redirection....

[HavocWing]

AsteroidX, on 20 January 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

Might I direct you to Sandy Hook in order for your answer to more in line with the truth.

Or Timothy McVeigh

Or many other incidents....Waco.

Yes we do these things in a different form then Islamic Fundamentalists wage there war but we indeed wage war against our Government which has become more and more Tyrranical over time.

Nothing will be more tyrannical than any religion.