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CIA Tortured & Sodomized Terror Suspect


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#16    supervike

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:01 PM

View PostBama13, on 14 December 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

So which came first the torture of terrorists or the acts of terrorism that lead to the torture of terrorists?

Does it really matter?  It's certainly a vicious cycle.


#17    Babe Ruth

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:13 PM

View Posttyrant lizard, on 18 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

And, of course, the Eurpoean Court of Human Rights has never been wrong before

At least the European Courts have the courage to stand for human dignity.

American Courts certainly do not, though the legislators have led the way, and that makes it difficult for the courts, but I digress.

Our courts are silent, for the most part, and deny standing to any and all.

It used to be that THIS country was the one that stood tall for the common man.  Not no mo'. :no:


#18    Rut Roh

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:39 AM

View PostOverSword, on 18 December 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

And you know that I'm referring to simple sleep deprivation how???  BTW staying awake past five days can be fatal.  Nice try though.  :innocent:

No, you just made a typical blanket statement and I simply told you that you were incorrect.  Go back and look at the thread.

http://www.unexplain...topic=233373=

BTW, people can stay awake longer than that and live....who woulda thunk it.

Assumptions galore as before


#19    Babe Ruth

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

View PostRut Roh, on 19 December 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

No, you just made a typical blanket statement and I simply told you that you were incorrect.  Go back and look at the thread.

http://www.unexplain...topic=233373=

BTW, people can stay awake longer than that and live....who woulda thunk it.

Assumptions galore as before

People live after being flogged.  People live after being raped and otherwise assaulted.  People can live without food or water for a certain period.

The difference sir, is when such measures are taken by the state or any other third party, it is wrong.  It is illegal.  That so many are willing to accept such assault by the state is an excellent insight into why our society today has lost its way in moral terms.  Its moral compass is spinning.

Is that what Mr. Justice Brandeis was talking about in his Olmstead dissenting opinion? "For good or for ill, it (the government) teaches the whole people by its example."


#20    Rut Roh

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

People live after being flogged.  People live after being raped and otherwise assaulted.  People can live without food or water for a certain period.

The difference sir, is when such measures are taken by the state or any other third party, it is wrong.  It is illegal.  That so many are willing to accept such assault by the state is an excellent insight into why our society today has lost its way in moral terms.  Its moral compass is spinning.

Is that what Mr. Justice Brandeis was talking about in his Olmstead dissenting opinion? "For good or for ill, it (the government) teaches the whole people by its example."

Yeah, and people have lived after a building has fallen on them....I can make the same responses.  The response was to Oversword and his ever changing line of assumptions that follow his questions. The "deafening silence" is because he is comparing apples to oranges and then making his "case" based on those assumptions.

As for morality, one groups morals is possibly anothers toilet paper, sir.  We can debate morality but when both claim the high ground, who is right?  I never claimed that the story and the actions within were justified.  But to act as if all enhanced interrogation techniques are in the same category as sodomy, you are taking a true leap of faith.

And the flip side of your quote is that the people teach the government by election.


#21    Stellar

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:47 PM

View PostOverSword, on 18 December 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

And you know that I'm referring to simple sleep deprivation how???  BTW staying awake past five days can be fatal. Nice try though.  :innocent:

Yeah... right...

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#22    Babe Ruth

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:30 PM

View PostRut Roh, on 19 December 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Yeah, and people have lived after a building has fallen on them....I can make the same responses.  The response was to Oversword and his ever changing line of assumptions that follow his questions. The "deafening silence" is because he is comparing apples to oranges and then making his "case" based on those assumptions.

As for morality, one groups morals is possibly anothers toilet paper, sir.  We can debate morality but when both claim the high ground, who is right?  I never claimed that the story and the actions within were justified.  But to act as if all enhanced interrogation techniques are in the same category as sodomy, you are taking a true leap of faith.

And the flip side of your quote is that the people teach the government by election.

I can tell from your cartoon character that I'm not supposed to take you seriously.  Your rhetoric goes right along with the cartoon--some kind of moral midget having a snit fit.


#23    Rut Roh

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:44 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 December 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

I can tell from your cartoon character that I'm not supposed to take you seriously.  Your rhetoric goes right along with the cartoon--some kind of moral midget having a snit fit.

Well, I can tell from your response that I can do the very same to you, sir.

What rhetoric am I spouting, by the way?   I ask this only because, normally, when someone starts getting as defensive as you and starts throwing little insults around that means they have nothing else to add to the conversation.  Hmmmm, I wonder what is coming next.....


#24    Sakari

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:48 AM

Sodomizing someone as torture?

Who in their right mind would perform sodomy as a torture?

" hey, I know lets try this"........Really?

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#25    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:29 AM

Torture, in any form, does not work and does not lead to reliable information. This has been know for many, many years, yet still it continues...

"You do not teach the paths of the forest to an old gorilla."


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#26    Glenville86

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:50 AM

Is there justification in going after terrorists, suspected terrorists and terrorist supporters?  My answer is yes.  Are some of the methods the US and allies use to interview these people correct?  My answer is no.  If the person is a terrorist and not a suspected terrorist, I think their fate belongs to their enemy who has captured them.  I have no compassion for them.  The rules of war and Geneva Convention do not apply to them.  These people want to kill and it really does not matter to them if they knowingly kill women, children and other helpless individuals.  This applies not only to foreign terrorists but internal terrorists as well.  For the people who protest the procedures used on known terrorist personnel - what do you think would happen if you were snatched by a terrorist organization.  Do you think any of them would be compassionate to you and have any moral obligations to see that you were treated well?

That being said, there needs to be a 100% positive identification that the detained person is a terrorist and not just a person of interest.  A person of interest should be afforded all rights and protections until they are or are not identified as terrorists'.


#27    Babe Ruth

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:50 PM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 20 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

Torture, in any form, does not work and does not lead to reliable information. This has been know for many, many years, yet still it continues...

It still continues because we are a morally depraved country.  I'm ashamed of that fact, but it is a fact.  The average christian church has been absolutely silent about torture.  Only a tiny few have condemned it.

The average person on the street will rationalize it, if asked about it.  A very sad state of affairs.


#28    Gromdor

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 20 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

Torture, in any form, does not work and does not lead to reliable information. This has been know for many, many years, yet still it continues...
  I have to disagree with this.  Torture does work if you want an individual to say what you want to hear or confess to something he would normally not.  Despots have used torture for years to get confessions from people before executing them.
  I can also see how it occurs in this day and age when the US is wanting certain answers and sub-contract their interrogation out to other countries- especially if funding is involved.  No results is no pay after all.


#29    Yamato

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:45 PM

Torture someone long enough and they'll confess to anything.  Probably about 20 seconds on a water board.   Torture someone for days and they'll probably confess just to get executed.

Sodomy isn't torture?   Macho men said the same thing about waterboarding.  "Conservative" rant raiser 'Mancow' couldn't even handle five seconds of that, and that was knowing exactly what was going to happen in advance, administered by friends he knew had no intention of hurting him.  Incidentally, this was after his foolish pronouncement that waterboarding isn't torture.



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#30    Babe Ruth

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:27 PM

Having read the book about the Stanford Prison Experiment in the 70s, it is no surprise that some humans come out in favor of blurring the line about just what is torture.  Some humans boldly defend torture, deluded by silly nonsense on TV shows.

The spirit of Nuremberg is dead and gone in this bloody judeo christian country.





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