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Goddess instead of God


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#16    Beany

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:38 AM

It makes a difference; patriarchy


#17    Jinxdom

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:30 AM

It wouldn't of made a difference. The only difference that would of appeared what the isms in a different direction. Men would of been slaves instead of women and all that garbage. Either way the same stuff would still happen just to a different party. Don't try to hold an illusion that women are better then men(or vice versa). Both sexes are human after all.


#18    libstaK

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:57 AM

I think God is a perfect balance of both, don't care if it goes against anything.  I also think that in the trinity the "holy spirit" has to be the feminine aspect at work as that can't possibly be missing in a balanced system.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#19    Eldorado

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:28 AM

I doubt the world would be too different.  City Council workers would probably be a lot better dressed, talking about your feelings would be compulsory from age two and planet Earth would smell much nicer... but that's about it.  Women are just as mental as us men, in my experience.


#20    Eldorado

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:31 AM

View PostMistydawn, on 09 December 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:



Yes, there are examples. No, it is not the norm over-all in the world we live in.

I beg to differ.  There are images of Goddesses all over teenage boys' bedroom walls, worldwide.  And please believe me, they are worshipped. :)


#21    eight bits

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

There is also a problem that it's unclear that actual women were treated any better in places where goddesses were worshipped than where gods were the focus, or the only show in town.

Rather like how all that worship by teenage boys of the ladies on their walls may not cash out in the boys' being better lovers of actual women.

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#22    monk 56

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:45 AM

Hi libstaK,

I thought i would add some Christmas humour, (joke)!

I'll be grinding my teeth on Christmas Day thinking of you adjusting your fig leaf in hot Australia, as you go down to the beach to have a barbecue, i'm freezing in the U.K!

However just in case the good book is right, don't eat Spare Ribs or Apples, and stay away from snakes, Ha Ha!

Obviously if you are right about a female god spirit, at New Year, don't do Auld Lang Syne, do a little jig like Wilson, Keppel & Betty shown below, keep watching till the Egyptian dance comes on!




Isis is female and her star, Sirius culminates in the middle of the sky at midnight at New Year!

http://earthsky.org/...of-the-new-year

A very Merry Christmas to all, i'll be cold but happy with my bottle of scotch ha ha!

Edited by monk 56, 09 December 2012 - 11:44 AM.


#23    Beany

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:46 PM

View PostBeany, on 09 December 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

It makes a difference; patriarchy
Sorry for the abbreviated post, the had to stop because the dogs got skunked. Phew! Whether an ascended matriarchy would have made a difference it hard if not impossible to determine.However, for me, in my life, a matriarchal/goddess philosophy does matter. I want no part of any religion or philosophy that has a history of making women second-class citizens, or subjugating women, or that believe that women, solely because of their gender, are unable to perform all of the priestly functions that men do, which weirdly enough, is STILL a topic of debate. I want to hear language and see imagery that recognizes gender equality and values and gives equal weight to the feminine experience, which most patriarchal religions don't. And I'm not interested in hierarchical organizations, which artificially elevate some and devalue others. I prefer a history, a philosophy, spirituality that equally reflects my experiences as a women, one in which my story is told, and not just as an adjunct to the male experience.

And I am definitely not interested in dogma that perpetuates the myth of feminine inequality and power over, and at times, even attempts to justify it. I like the idea of a goddess and her consort, which puts forth the idea of gender equality, that the divine consists of both female & male energy dependent on one another, as co-creators.

Edited by Beany, 09 December 2012 - 03:50 PM.


#24    Rafterman

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 09 December 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

Do you think the world would be different if rather than following a God the Abrahamic religions viewed the Divine as female rather than masculine? Mother rather than Father.  What if Jesus or Mohammad would have been a women?

I'll do you one better - what if we had never started worshiping imaginary men/women in the first place.

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#25    GreenmansGod

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:25 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 09 December 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

Has this Council (IIRC) (never heard of it) informed the catholic church in Rome? or the Head of the Church of England? Or any of the other State Reglions of the world?

Misty, open a history book.  http://en.wikipedia....uncil_of_Nicaea  Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

I don't think the Catholic church is really worshiping Mary as a Goddess. I think she is more of a go between saint to God the Father or Son.

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#26    Paracelse

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

View Postand then, on 09 December 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

Aren't there a lot of examples of this in ancient history?  I seem to recall that women were worshiped as divine from time to time by different cultures.  Maybe I'm mistaken..it happens :w00t: :yes:

View PostMistydawn, on 09 December 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

Yes, there are examples. No, it is not the norm over-all in the world we live in.

Actually you two should read Merlin Stone's "When God was a Woman".  She shows the sites of Goddess worship were a lot more numerous in the past but often neglected by archeologist who would prefer a more patriarchal perspective of history.  Fact is even the bible has a feminin element which suggests Yahweh was listening to Chokmah as the voice of reason, Chokmah being a feminin version of God, and to a certain extent superieur.  Isis  allegedly stoled the name of God and was suppose to have power over him.

View PostMistydawn, on 09 December 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

Has this Council (IIRC) (never heard of it) informed the catholic church in Rome? or the Head of the Church of England? Or any of the other State Reglions of the world?

It was at the council of Nicea in Turkey that JC was elected god and all those who didn't vote for it were called heretics and were burned at the stake:  Methink it was in 325 CE.

View PostDarkwind, on 09 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Misty, open a history book.  http://en.wikipedia....uncil_of_Nicaea  Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

I don't think the Catholic church is really worshiping Mary as a Goddess. I think she is more of a go between saint to God the Father or Son.

Hello Darkwind actually there are several references of Mary as a Goddess in the over 6000 sermons Saint Bernard of Clairvaux  wrote.

Quote

Bernard played the leading role in the development of the cult of the Virgin, which is one of the most important manifestations of the popular piety of the twelfth century. In early medieval thought, the Virgin Mary had played a minor role, and it was only with the rise of emotional Christianity in the eleventh century that she became the prime intercessor for humanity with the deity.[30]
from this page
Although there is lots to be said about who was the Mary he (and his fellow Cistercians and the Templar) really worship.  Actually I doing a reasearch on the subject for my work on Vezelay.  The only advange of being in France for the moment is of course the possiblility of going to the spot and check first hand.  A good book for you Darkwind would be Ean Begg's The Cult of the Black Virgin.  Albeit limited with information it would give you a fresh perspective of continued Feminin worship in France going back to before year 1 (temple of Isis were found in the Camargue region going back 2500 years).  It would explain the marial fetish of French People for "Notre Dame" which is the title of all French cathedrals and also many Basilicas (the difference between a cathedral and a basilica is the presence of a bishop... no bishops no cathedral.).  You have to remember that in a period of 250 years (and with financial means that were far from having a official existence) nearly 300 cathedrals were built in France alone.  And they were all called "Notre Dame".  So is the Goddess gone and buried ... not for all of us!  Oh for those who believe that workers built those cathedrals for dog and glory read Jean Gimpel's book "The Cathedral builders" in which he shows how people worked for a paycheck and how much they were paid depending of the union they belong to.  Those where not polical union they were skills union the were determining how much a worker was going to be paid.  The most famous union's name was "Compagnion du devoir et de la liberté" (companion of duty and freedom) which changed it's name to " Companion du Temple de Salomon" (companion of Salomon's Temple) after the Templar purge of 1307 by Philip the fair.

Edited by Paracelse, 09 December 2012 - 06:39 PM.

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#27    Ryu

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:49 PM

View PostRafterman, on 09 December 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I'll do you one better - what if we had never started worshiping imaginary men/women in the first place.

Or worshiping anything, real or imaginary.


#28    pukin Rainbows24-7

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

either way, it doesn't matter since we are all going to get screwed on doomsday

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#29    pallidin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:03 PM

In my "unknowledgeable" opinion, I would venture to guess that "God" does not have, or need to have, a gender identity.


#30    Beany

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:28 PM

I don't think of myself as a worshiper of any sort; my spirituality is more philosophic in nature than religious, a reverence, that has changed over the course of my lifetime, as life itself has wrought changes upon me. The word goddess, for me, is a form of shorthand that references many concepts and ideas. And maybe I'm wrong here, but isn't that the original intent of the word God/Goddess? Not as reference to a singular entity/being, but as a reference to thoughts, ideas, concepts, creative & moral forces, archetypes, and other non-material ideas, that over time became codified and literalized for those who are unable or unwilling to engage in or understanding abstract thinking, or perhaps were deprived of an education which would have encouraged "metaphysical" thinking and ideas? Certainly that's been done with the concept of evil, literalized into Satan/Devil, as an active, live entity that works negatively in our lives by those who misunderstand artists' renderings of the concepts and theories of evil personified by demons, jinns, etc. as portrayals of actual entities.





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