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Guns are part of the American identity


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#301    joc

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:36 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 30 December 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

But joc, if violence against someone is so abhorrant that it makes you feel violent, how can you follow through with these evictions?
Surely, in time over years, and time, this just going to continue, you can't end violence with violence, only make different layers of right and wrong
Banning all forms of violence against mankind, in the end, hopefully will make change for the better.
It will take years, maybe milleniums, but is it not better to a part of the hope for the future, rather than the drudge of old bad ways?
But see Mistydawn, you are missing a huge point...Violence is inherent in Human Nature.   You are not going to fix that by being nice to those who would harm you.  But the world in which I am Judge and Jury only exists in Dictatorship countries like Saudi Arabia.  The truth is that we live in an abhorent society and being all nice, nice with the criminal element just puts you into their nightmare.  I would never harm anyone intentionally...but if I am threatened with harm, my response is also Human Nature...destroy the threat.  Look around...do  you really think we as a race will endure long enough to overcome the inherent nature that is us?  Evil is.  When it finds you...kill it!  Don't go looking for it...it will come looking for  you...and when it does...kill it!  That is all...

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#302    Mistydawn

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:44 PM

View Postjoc, on 30 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

But see Mistydawn, you are missing a huge point...Violence is inherent in Human Nature.   You are not going to fix that by being nice to those who would harm you.  But the world in which I am Judge and Jury only exists in Dictatorship countries like Saudi Arabia.  The truth is that we live in an abhorent society and being all nice, nice with the criminal element just puts you into their nightmare.  I would never harm anyone intentionally...but if I am threatened with harm, my response is also Human Nature...destroy the threat.  Look around...do  you really think we as a race will endure long enough to overcome the inherent nature that is us?  Evil is.  When it finds you...kill it!  Don't go looking for it...it will come looking for  you...and when it does...kill it!  That is all...

But joc, my argument stands, to fight evil with evil only makes you evil. You can't condemm someone and then come after them with the same weapon.

You gotta fight evil with love.

Edited by Mistydawn, 30 December 2012 - 06:46 PM.

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#303    JGirl

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:53 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 30 December 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

But joc, my argument stands, to fight evil with evil only makes you evil. You can't condemm someone and then come after them with the same weapon.

You gotta fight evil with love.
i think rather than fighting it we must find a way to eliminate it as a factor in life. you fight this evil and that evil just takes its place.
uh no i haven't gotten all the details worked out yet so don't be challenging me on that one lol


#304    joc

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:54 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 30 December 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

But joc, my argument stands, to fight evil with evil only makes you evil. You can't condemm someone and then come after them with the same weapon.

You gotta fight evil with love.
How does that work?  My definition of Evil is not 'killing'.  If I detroy a threat, then the Evil is irradicated...if I tell the threat that I love it and that I am going to show the Evil my love...and the Evil kills me...the Evil continues and my love is destroyed.
Love triumphs over Evil is a myth.   The only way Evil is overcome is through its destruction.

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#305    Yamato

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:46 PM

View Postjoc, on 30 December 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

How does that work? My definition of Evil is not 'killing'.  If I detroy a threat, then the Evil is irradicated...if I tell the threat that I love it and that I am going to show the Evil my love...and the Evil kills me...the Evil continues and my love is destroyed.
Love triumphs over Evil is a myth.   The only way Evil is overcome is through its destruction.
In one way, it prevents evil.   Once existing and being eradicated is less than never existing at all.  The old "an ounce of prevention" adage.   Gun controllers are eradicating guns because they see guns as the threat.   That's not to favor gun control if the gun-control advocates have the order backwards.   Adding love should come before subtracting guns, as if only evil can come from the (private citizen's?) use of a gun.   When there's no more evil, there will be no more need for guns.   The oft-disproved myth that just because someone is wearing a blue uniform with a badge they are a trustworthy steward of a firearm is just as wrongheaded as believing the same about someone in a green uniform with a helmet.

And if a threat to you is evil, is a threat to a deer evil?   What about a chicken?    No, one could argue, they're just dumb animals.  We only think of good and evil on human terms, yet what of the humans who love that deer?   My mom grew up with a baby chic, raised it to a plump ripe age and found it on her dinner plate.  She was aghast.  She loved that chicken.  It felt evil and disgusting to her to have to sit at the table and eat it.   Is evil defined culturally, dependent on humanity collectively, uniquely contained within different societies each independent of the other, limited in definition to some minimal standard of intelligence?    What about a threat to another country you don't politically agree with?   Maybe a threat from your own country?   Is that evil?   We sometimes stack these concepts so high on top of so many assumptions and so much terminology that they're subjectively defined and inherently unprincipled.  What is evil?  What is a threat?   Do your definitions fit everyone's?   Do your examples?   Can evil be eradicated or prevented?   Should it?

I believe that good triumphs over evil eventually because evil inevitably turns upon itself.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#306    joc

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:20 AM

Quote

   Gun controllers are eradicating guns because they see guns as the threat.

They see guns as a threat to their own Power.  Guns in the hands of the People is a threat to the Power of the Dictatorial Wannabe Government!

Quote

I believe that good triumphs over evil eventually because evil inevitably turns upon itself.
Good triumphs over evil because good people won't stand for evil...and it is the Triumph of those who actually Fight and Destroy the evil that brings Victory to those who just want to Love it all away!
We don't live in the Wild, Wild, West...this world is so much more unpredictable and sick!

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#307    Yamato

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:41 AM

View Postjoc, on 31 December 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

Good triumphs over evil because good people won't stand for evil...and it is the Triumph of those who actually Fight and Destroy the evil that brings Victory to those who just want to Love it all away!
We don't live in the Wild, Wild, West...this world is so much more unpredictable and sick!
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?”  ~ Abraham Lincoln

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#308    The Silver Thong

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:06 AM

View Postspartan max2, on 30 December 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Sources to back that up?

not the whole rape and kill everyone part. but the chances of someone breaking in to your house and harming someone. or the chances of being mugged etc


Could you post states that state in a free carry world people will not mug you or break in to your home. IMO the chances are they will do both but just shoot you first because they think you have a gun. So instead of being a victim of crime you are just a corpse.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


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#309    Jinxdom

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:37 AM

Seriously people need to go watch Demolition Man.


#310    Maizer

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:59 AM

Before that, people who are paranoid about the government going all Nazi should check under their beds for monsters.


#311    acidhead

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 08:02 AM

Guns are part of the American identity... what's wrong with that?

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#312    AsteroidX

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:33 PM

Not getting the guns. Fact.

Getting the guns. Delusional

:gun:


#313    joc

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:42 PM

View PostYamato, on 31 December 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?”  ~ Abraham Lincoln
Try making friends with the guy in the parking lot that wants your car and cash...he wants a fix...he doesn't want to be your friend.

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#314    preacherman76

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:18 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 30 December 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

But joc, my argument stands, to fight evil with evil only makes you evil. You can't condemm someone and then come after them with the same weapon.

You gotta fight evil with love.

I dont know if you have kids Misty. But if you do, and you allowed some lunitic to capture them, where 3 days later the cops drag thier body outta a river, when you could have stopped them, THAT would make you evil.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#315    Br Cornelius

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:41 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 31 December 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

I dont know if you have kids Misty. But if you do, and you allowed some lunitic to capture them, where 3 days later the cops drag thier body outta a river, when you could have stopped them, THAT would make you evil.
Fear mongering.
Its still more likely your kids will get shot accidentally by a legitimate gun owner.

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