58 replies to this topic

[Starship Trooper]

I'm sure you could just get another operation to remove the immortality idea if you'd like but again that would probably cost a bunch of money.  Also im skeptical of his time frame with all the other stuff we're trying to do.

[WoIverine]

Alienated Being, on 23 September 2009 - 10:08 PM, said:

What's wrong with that? If that kind of technology were available to make me like Batman or Spiderman, then I would jump at it the moment it came up. I'd do it because I like helping people.

Ahh I meant, he said he would want to stay 40, in a 40 year old body, but with nanotech you probably could de-age I would think. Man, how sweet would that be. I'd kill to be like bats, or spidey. Basically immortal, like Wolverine, or the Highlander (minus the head chopping of course) with nano enhanced bio functions, you'd still remain fully human, but all your abilities and physicality would be augmented probably beyond olympic athlete levels, and your mental functions could be as well, you theoretically could be Einstein, or amass great volumes of knowledge kind of like the matrix, write it directly to your brain. You'd also be immortal, how cool would that be?

Edited by SpiderCyde, 24 September 2009 - 12:31 AM.

[.i.]

Startraveler, on 23 September 2009 - 11:28 PM, said:

That seems to me to be a big part of what fuels the "I want to live forever" sentiment: the desire to live forever in some future utopia (real world heaven for secularists, I suppose).

But when I read the wiki about Kurzweil's predictions (particularly what he thinks 2099 will be like) I don't see a utopia or even a future I'd be particularly enthused about living in:

• Humans and machines merge together in the physical and mental realms. Cybernetic brain implants enable humans to fuse their minds with AI's.
  
• In consequence, clear distinctions between humans and machines no longer exist.
  
• Most conscious beings lack a permanent physical form.
  
• The world is overwhelmingly populated by AI's that exist entirely as thinking computer programs capable of instantly moving from one computer to another across the Internet (or whatever equivalent exists in 2099). These computer-based beings are capable of manifesting themselves at will in the physical world by creating or taking over robotic bodies, with individual AI's also being capable of controlling multiple bodies at once.
  
• Individual beings merge and separate constantly, making it impossible to determine how many “people” there are on Earth.
  
• This new plasticity of consciousness and ability for beings to join minds seriously alters the nature of self-identity.
  
• The majority of interpersonal interactions occur in virtual environments. Actually having two people physically meet in the real world to have a conversation or transact business without any technological interference is very rare.
  
• Organic human beings are a small minority of the intelligent life forms on Earth. Even among the remaining Homo sapiens, the use of computerized implants that heavily augment normal abilities is ubiquitous and accepted as normal. The small fraction of humans who opt to remain "natural" and unmodified effectively exist on a different plane of consciousness from everyone else, and thus find it impossible to fully interact with AI's and highly modified humans.
  
• "Natural" humans are protected from extermination. In spite of their shortcomings and frailties, humans are respected by AI's for giving rise to the machines.

As someone said above, this is a vision of people turning themselves into machines. Human beings are flesh and blood. They live and they die. I don't know that any conscious entity should live forever. Perhaps I'm alone in this but I find that to be a terrifying prospect.

On a slightly different note, I'm a Star Trek fan and when I see that "waking up the universe" stuff on that wiki page (I haven't read Kurzweil's books so I'm going by the wiki) I recognize the Borg on steroids there--er, actually much, much worse. And those guys were supposed to be villains. It all has a very dystopic feel to it.

Seems like one possibility, I wouldn't mind beeing a robot/AI if it works in a way that my consciousness is still there. Perhaps we could become so super advanced that we can predict all bad things from happening and travel between realities, it would be true awesomeness forever. Any experience you want you could get. You could perhaps even see your own mind and alter it if you feel sad or have anything bad in it. Hey, maybe we are already living in a reality that works like that without knowing it! We just have to wake up! Maybe! Thats my silly plan anyways that I hold in consideration, to become aware of the real world and become the master of my own reality. 2012 maybe, am I out of topic now?

Edited by brawl, 24 September 2009 - 12:32 AM.

[Lt_Ripley]

people can't agree that the poor should have adequate health care let alone having people live forever. think health care is a mess now ? then again , it wouldn't be the poor living forever ...... just the Paris Hiltons.

shoot me now !  

Edited by Lt_Ripley, 24 September 2009 - 03:13 AM.

[Cookes453]

We Humans need tricorders, replicators, and transporters!.....and so much more. =D

Edited by Cookes453, 24 September 2009 - 03:32 AM.

[WoIverine]

Lt_Ripley, on 24 September 2009 - 03:13 AM, said:

people can't agree that the poor should have adequate health care let alone having people live forever. think health care is a mess now ? then again , it wouldn't be the poor living forever ...... just the Paris Hiltons.

shoot me now !  

Nanites could theoretically be programmed to cure and rebuild everything at a cellular level, we probably wouldn't need healthcare.

[The Silver Thong]

Alienated Being, on 23 September 2009 - 10:08 PM, said:

What's wrong with that? If that kind of technology were available to make me like Batman or Spiderman, then I would jump at it the moment it came up. I'd do it because I like helping people.

This will never happen, immortality in any sense of the word would become a disease. What would a civilization do about the coming generations. We would have to put a stop to procreation and those that did not abide by those rules there child would have to be murdered. You think anti abortion people are mad now LOL wait till will have to kill all new comers aka children just so we have room to live because we are greedy for life.


I would like nano tech to make me into a batman or a spider man but damn so would everyone else so really we wouldn't be special at all just the same as we are now but with the curse of immortality.

Edited by The Silver Thong, 24 September 2009 - 03:39 AM.

[WoIverine]

The Silver Thong, on 24 September 2009 - 03:37 AM, said:

This will never happen, immortality in any sense of the word would become a disease. What would a civilization do about the coming generations. We would have to put a stop to procreation and those that did not abide by those rules there child would have to be murdered. You think anti abortion people are mad now LOL wait till will have to kill all new comers aka children just so we have room to live because we are greedy for life.


I would like nano tech to make me into a batman or a spider man but damn so would everyone else so really we wouldn't be special at all just the same as we are now but with the curse of immortality.

Yeah man overpopulation would be a definite prob. Maybe go live with immortality when we have faster than light travel, or make it really hard to achieve, like you have to be an Einstein, hawking, etc. Kind of like nobel prize winners or something.

[kobolds]

jbondo, on 23 September 2009 - 01:43 PM, said:

I've heard this 20 year thing before from cancer cures to free energy. While I don't doubt progress in these areas ( I work in nanotechnology myself), I just don't see world governments allowing such things. At least not for us poor schmo's.

I agree with you  . I heard a lot  of talk about nanotechnology benefit us but up until now , I don't see the actual use in cure . rather than waste time talking about live forever why not try to solve the flu problem.

[Der]

The Silver Thong, on 24 September 2009 - 03:37 AM, said:

This will never happen

Who says?

The Silver Thong, on 24 September 2009 - 03:37 AM, said:

immortality in any sense of the word would become a disease. What would a civilization do about the coming generations. We would have to put a stop to procreation and those that did not abide by those rules there child would have to be murdered. You think anti abortion people are mad now LOL wait till will have to kill all new comers aka children just so we have room to live because we are greedy for life.

By that logic, science should never have tried to cure diseases and prolong human life.

If overpopulation becomes too much of a problem, then there are plenty of better solutions than killing children:
1.Expanding cities and populated areas
2.Building new cities
3.Birth control (as in limiting the number of children you can have, rather than disposing of newborns)
4.Experimenting how to make it possible to live in other mediums
5.Exploring space in hopes of finding places where it's possible for man to live
6.Any other solutions we might come up with by the time immortality is possible

Obviously, the technology wouldn't be used on every person from every corner of the world from the start. Also, it would be used only on those who ask for it. Until it becomes the norm, we could work on the previously mentioned solutions.

Edited by Der, 24 September 2009 - 06:15 AM.

[Deceiver]

Startraveler, on 23 September 2009 - 03:28 PM, said:

I don't understand his obsession with immortality. Who wants to live forever?

  Life is just too short. Alot of people can't do everything they want in life because they simply don't have enough time. I'll be the first to admit I want to live thousands of years. I want to continue my hobby's and there's so much things that I still wanna do really. Will I be able to in my lets say...70 year old life span? Hell no. And there's still an entire universe to explore! Who's to say what else? The possibilities are endless.

Oh and for the people who mentioned Batman, Spiderman, Wolverine, etc. Yeah I would love to have Wolverine's healing factor. He can't get sick, and he can heal from nearly all things. He stopped aging when he was at his psyhical peak and he's basicly over 200 years.

Edited by Deceiver, 24 September 2009 - 06:42 AM.

[LostInTheWoods]

Holy Mother of God. Immortality? Whhhat!? What a terrifying thought.
I nearly cried a little reading that article. I found it deeply disturbing.
I know not a lot about nanotechnology, but look how far we've come in 50 years. It doesn't even sound TOO radical, which is the scary thing.

[REBEL]

From 23 September 2009 - 12:41 PM:

Scientist Ray Kurzweil has claimed that immortality will be a possibility within as little as 20 years due to advancements in nanotechnology that could lead to us being able to reprogramme our bodies as we see fit.

"Scientist Ray Kurzweil claims humans could become immortal in as little as 20 years' time through nanotechnology and an increased understanding of how the body works. "

View: Full Article | Source: Telegraph

I probably be dead by then(?)

[The Silver Thong]

Der, on 24 September 2009 - 06:06 AM, said:

Who says?


By that logic, science should never have tried to cure diseases and prolong human life.

If overpopulation becomes too much of a problem, then there are plenty of better solutions than killing children:
1.Expanding cities and populated areas
2.Building new cities
3.Birth control (as in limiting the number of children you can have, rather than disposing of newborns)
4.Experimenting how to make it possible to live in other mediums
5.Exploring space in hopes of finding places where it's possible for man to live
6.Any other solutions we might come up with by the time immortality is possible

Obviously, the technology wouldn't be used on every person from every corner of the world from the start. Also, it would be used only on those who ask for it. Until it becomes the norm, we could work on the previously mentioned solutions.

This is just wishfull thinking. Immortality would be a nightmare for everyone. Sure we wouldn't have to kill many children as we would have to basicly sterilize everyone period as having children would become illegal. Sure we could hope to travel the stars but I highly doubt we will have that technology for a long time to come. FTL travel may very well never be possible. How much food would we need what would be the planets breaking point as far as over population?  Who do we allow to become Immortal and who would we condeme to dye. The moral implications would be a nightmare. Not to many people would not want this and as far it becoming the norm, by that time we won't be human anymore.

[Der]

The Silver Thong, on 24 September 2009 - 04:26 PM, said:

This is just wishfull thinking. Immortality would be a nightmare for everyone. Sure we wouldn't have to kill many children as we would have to basicly sterilize everyone period as having children would become illegal. Sure we could hope to travel the stars but I highly doubt we will have that technology for a long time to come. FTL travel may very well never be possible. How much food would we need what would be the planets breaking point as far as over population?  Who do we allow to become Immortal and who would we condeme to dye. The moral implications would be a nightmare. Not to many people would not want this and as far it becoming the norm, by that time we won't be human anymore.

How do you know that we wouldn't have found a solution by the time that a) immortality becomes the norm and b) there aren't enough resources and space on Earth for us to keep procreating? Also if it gets so extreme that we aren't allowed to have children (right, like that will happen any time soon), then you could always reject immortality so that you are allowed to procreate. Though until most countries have more overpopulation than today's China, and there isn't more space for cities, that won't be necessary.