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Are Ghosts Real? Science Says No-o-o-o


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Poll: Do you believe ghosts are real? (78 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you believe ghosts are real?

  1. Yes (53 votes [67.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 67.95%

  2. No (25 votes [32.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.05%

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#31    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:48 PM

You provided a couple of examples; do you have a working definition?


#32    _Only

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

First off, those weren't my theories. The first was Paul Bradford's and the second was from a metaphysics book, But I can define energy for you. Energy = power. Thought energy = Power of thought. Emotional energy = Emotional power. Do these energies have the ability to carry on once a physical body is gone? Maybe.

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#33    RedSquirrel

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:10 PM

A little sad that there isn't an "I don't know" vote.

I have not seen any proof of life after death, but I do believe that there are many things that science (at this time) cannot grasp with the current model. I do believe that if ghosts are real, it will be science that proves it. I am ghost-agnostic. I believe something is happening to cause people to believe in ghosts, but I am unsure what. Though I lean pretty hard to the side of "Nope".

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#34    Sakari

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:15 PM

View PostRedSquirrel, on 03 February 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

A little sad that there isn't an "I don't know" vote.

I have not seen any proof of life after death, but I do believe that there are many things that science (at this time) cannot grasp with the current model. I do believe that if ghosts are real, it will be science that proves it. I am ghost-agnostic. I believe something is happening to cause people to believe in ghosts, but I am unsure what. Though I lean pretty hard to the side of "Nope".


Psychology :)

Our minds all want things to be real that are not. Imagination is a great thing, as long as we can distinguish imagination from reality.

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#35    RedSquirrel

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:24 PM

View PostSakari, on 03 February 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Psychology :)

Our minds all want things to be real that are not. Imagination is a great thing, as long as we can distinguish imagination from reality.

I'll go as far as saying I agree with you 99%. Honestly. But should science discover that it's something like a natural em field that messes with our perceptions... he he.

I'm open to the idea, I've experienced some odd stuff... not enough to make me believe.


EDIT: I should have been more clear, I do not believe that ghosts are dead relatives, demons or astral entities. I do believe something is going on that makes people jump to that though.

Edited by RedSquirrel, 03 February 2013 - 07:25 PM.

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#36    Erowin

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:20 AM

Science can't prove the existence or non-existence of ghosts. It never will. How can you study a ghost with the scientific method? And repeat the study to see if the findings are the same? If they do exist, they are formless entities that appear randomly and cannot be studied in a lab. No matter how many EVPs and videos/pictures of ghosts people get, science will never be able to tackle the subject. Its like religion- science cannot prove or disprove it, so it comes to belief. If you want to believe you believe, if you dont you dont :)


#37    Lumpino

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:45 AM

But, here is a spiritual science too.  :devil:  Experiments which were performed by a members of the Oxford Golden Dawn Occult Society (LOGDOS) between 1996 and 2000.
http://www.lawbright...os/phulint.html
http://www.lawbright...gdos/hagev.html
and so on.
www.lawbright.com/logdos/


#38    Emma_Acid

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:39 AM

View Post_Only, on 03 February 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

First off, those weren't my theories. The first was Paul Bradford's and the second was from a metaphysics book, But I can define energy for you. Energy = power. Thought energy = Power of thought. Emotional energy = Emotional power. Do these energies have the ability to carry on once a physical body is gone? Maybe.

Energy is not a thing - its a description of a system. There is no such thing as the "power of thought" or "emotional power", its sloppy new age waffle.


View PostErowin, on 04 February 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Science can't prove the existence or non-existence of ghosts. It never will. How can you study a ghost with the scientific method? And repeat the study to see if the findings are the same? If they do exist, they are formless entities that appear randomly and cannot be studied in a lab. No matter how many EVPs and videos/pictures of ghosts people get, science will never be able to tackle the subject. Its like religion- science cannot prove or disprove it, so it comes to belief. If you want to believe you believe, if you dont you dont :)

Firstly, that's special pleading: "this can't be studied by science, so they can't be disproved". If something exists, it can be studied. By definition. We can study neutrinos and black holes - events and objects unimaginably small and big.

Science isn't pinned down and restricted by your odd homemade definitions. And if ghosts existed, we would be able to study them.

Secondly, that is a terrible way to live your life - "if you want to believe, believe". What the hell would happen to progressive civilization if that was the way everyone thought??

You should believe in what there is evidence for. And there is no evidence for ghosts.

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#39    Frank Merton

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

View PostRedSquirrel, on 03 February 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

I have not seen any proof of life after death, but I do believe that there are many things that science (at this time) cannot grasp with the current model. I do believe that if ghosts are real, it will be science that proves it. I am ghost-agnostic. I believe something is happening to cause people to believe in ghosts, but I am unsure what. Though I lean pretty hard to the side of "Nope".
There are so many available explanations that are more mundane than the spirits of the dead haunting things that unless we are grinding some ax or other we are bound to be dismissive.  If there is an afterlife I sure hope it isn't like that.

There is one sort of argument that I have seen on not just this subject but on Sasquatch, on flying saucers, on angels, on miracles, and so on -- that so many people report experiences of the particular sort that there just has to be "something" there.

I think nothing of the sort.  They may testify to something real, but they probably only testify to the fact that we are all subject to fantasy, waking dreams, lucid dreams, false memories, the desire to believe, illusions, misinterpretations, and even temporary delusions.  There also exist thousands of con artists and true believers who will engage in pious fraud to save our souls.


#40    _Only

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 04 February 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:


Energy is not a thing - its a description of a system. There is no such thing as the "power of thought" or "emotional power", its sloppy new age waffle.


Energy is not just a description of a system. That's one meaning of a word that has multiple, depending on the context. One is "exertion of vigor or power", which is the way I was using it. This is what people mean when using the word energy in this context. To say there is no power to thought or power of emotion is ludicrous to me, but that is just your opinion, so I'll leave it at that. To affect your, and others', situation, or other people's thoughts and mood with only your emotion is a real thing we all do. And the way someone can greatly affect you by simply putting a thought inside your mind (imagine right now a line of innocent Jews being lined up outside a concentration camp and being shot in the face one by one) is also a real power. And we are ruled by our emotion. It affects everything we do and how we act. The only way to change it is to change our emotion. Usually done by thought. Thought affecting emotion, and emotion affecting thought. Drop the 'new age B.S.' mentality (or any mentality that will let you instantly pass an idea) and look at it for what it is.

The question is if the power of these emotions and thoughts hold can be so powerful that they imprint. That's where you can say the idea gets shaky but to say the word 'energy', as it applies to thought and emotion ,doesn't exist is, again, pretty ludicrous. It's an energy that rules our lives every day. Because we're basically walking minds. It's not sloppy new age waffle, pancakes, or Cheerios; it's psychology.

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#41    docyabut2

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:07 PM

A 64-year-old woman has reported to doctors at Geneva University Hospital the presence of a pale, milky-white and translucent third arm.

http://www.swissinfo...html?cid=655352


Is it just imagination or could it be that people do have a astral bodies.The body dies but the astral body goes on ?

Edited by docyabut2, 04 February 2013 - 02:10 PM.


#42    Rafterman

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:59 PM

View Postlone wolf2, on 03 February 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

And to the non believers it will never be proven. And how many skeptics truly have an open mind about these things? What people don't realize is your mind filters out alot of what you see hear and smell automatically .   This can be proven by blind folding your self for 1 hour.

As for evidence well. What counts as hard evidence? Not pictures, video,  voice recorders, or instrument readings. So what is allowed? That's like telling a mechanic he cant use any tools to fix your car.     Ask your self where science would be with out there equipment.

Ghost hunters are up against  so many variables its unpredictable whether or not your going to get anything in the first place. Then skeptics and non believers. That wont except what they do get do to the many frauds out there trying to get a couple min of fame.  


I have a challenge for the non believers . Become a ghost hunter for a few months. Go buy about $1500 worth of equipment out of your own pocket. And spent countless hours hunting and reviewing our own stuff.  To be told your faking evidence and ridiculed.   Then ask your self why?   If ghosts don't exist then why do we do it?

Except a mechanic knows exactly how an engine works, how and why his tools work, and how to actually fix the thing if it's broken.

Ghost Hunters know none of this.

As to why you do it?  For the chicks perhaps?

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#43    Emma_Acid

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

View Post_Only, on 04 February 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Energy is not just a description of a system. That's one meaning of a word that has multiple, depending on the context. One is "exertion of vigor or power", which is the way I was using it. This is what people mean when using the word energy in this context.

Well, thats moving the goalposts slightly. At the end of the day, ghosts must be powered by something. They cannot be an extension of "thought energy" as this doesn't exist.

"Vigor and power" are linguistic concepts. You can do something vigorously  but this makes no sense if you're trying to explain how the mind lives on after the body. It does it with "vigor"??? That doesn't mean anything.


View Post_Only, on 04 February 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

To say there is no power to thought or power of emotion is ludicrous to me, but that is just your opinion, so I'll leave it at that.

It might well be ludicrous to you, but so what? Concepts such as "mental energy" are part of a new age set of ideas, and are a complete misunderstanding of what "energy" is.


View Post_Only, on 04 February 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

To affect your, and others', situation, or other people's thoughts and mood with only your emotion is a real thing we all do. And the way someone can greatly affect you by simply putting a thought inside your mind (imagine right now a line of innocent Jews being lined up outside a concentration camp and being shot in the face one by one) is also a real power. And we are ruled by our emotion. It affects everything we do and how we act. The only way to change it is to change our emotion. Usually done by thought. Thought affecting emotion, and emotion affecting thought.

Yes, but what does that have to do with ghosts??


View Post_Only, on 04 February 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

The question is if the power of these emotions and thoughts hold can be so powerful that they imprint. That's where you can say the idea gets shaky but to say the word 'energy', as it applies to thought and emotion ,doesn't exist is, again, pretty ludicrous. It's an energy that rules our lives every day. Because we're basically walking minds. It's not sloppy new age waffle, pancakes, or Cheerios; it's psychology.

Its not psychology, its fluffy and confusing. You're suggesting something with absolutely no basis on how it might actually work, and changing the uses of words from paragraph to paragraph.

What are you actually suggesting and how would it work???

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#44    Frank Merton

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:25 PM

Energy is I would imagine the most important single concept in physics (maybe time beats it), but I have yet to see a definition that even begins to convey a sense of what it might actually be.  I don't think it is a concept we can ever understand in an intuitive way -- in other words, long before quantum mechanics came to befuddle us, we had this concept to struggle with.

We should remember that while the word has been around a long time, the concept as we have it now is pretty much an invention of nineteenth century thermodynamics, when they worked out how it is conserved and how it nevertheless degrades as entropy increases.


#45    _Only

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:46 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 04 February 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

A 64-year-old woman has reported to doctors at Geneva University Hospital the presence of a pale, milky-white and translucent third arm.


I've had the same thing some months ago. I was meditating with some audio track, and looked to the right to see a blue-whiteish forearm and hand, outside of my physical one, sticking up. The hand was bent upwards and pointing back in the most unnatural and awkward way. It was so interesting.

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