20 replies to this topic

[the L]

In year 921  Ahmad ibn Fadlan went on the trip to King of Bulgars in the name of Baghdad caliph. When he turn home he said:


"Near this river (the Volga) is a vast wilderness wherein they say is an animal that is less than a camel and more like a bull in size. Its head is like the head of a camel, and its tail is like the tail of a bull, while its body is like the body of a mule, and its hooves are like the cloven hooves of a bull. In the center of its head, it has a thick round horn, which as it rises from the head of the animal gets to be thinner until it becomes like the point of a lance. The length of some of these horns is from three to five cubits, and there are those that may attain to a greater or lesser length. The animal grazes on the leaves of trees, which are quite green. When it sees a horseman, it makes straight for him, and if he happens to have under him a fast horse, he is rendered safe from it with some effort. If it overtakes him, it removes him from the back of his horse with its horn, hurls him into the air, and then catches him with its horn. It continues in this manner until it kills him. It does not bother the horse in any form or manner. They seek out this animal in the forests in order to kill it. They do that by climbing the tall trees among which it is found, and with this object in mind, they assemble a number of archers with poisoned arrows. When it stands in their midst, they shoot at it until it is severely wounded and killed by them."
"I saw in the king's house three large bowls which looked like [they were made of] the onyx of Yemen. The king informed me that it was made from the base of the horn of the animal. Some of the people of the country told me that it was a rhinoceros."

[orangepeaceful79]

Just because an eyewitness account happened centuries ago doesn't make it any more valid than if some yoyo said he saw a unicorn today.  Sounds like either somebody was under the influence of something or just made up a tale for whatever reason.

[Night Walker]

Hmm… I haven’t got any modern unicorn sightings on file but I do have a centaur sighting:


THERE'S a mythical beast north of Brisbane. A half-man, half-horse in the orchards 54km northwest of the city. According to a caller identified only as Mitch, the horseman is on the hunt.

"When I saw him he was chasing something,'' said Mitch. "He had a bow and arrow and was moving quickly.''

The sighting occurred at 10am. Mitch rang two hours later. His voice was deadpan, with an undercurrent of anxiety.

"He had the torso of a man and the body of a horse,'' he said. "He was in my aunt's orchard.''

He wanted to file a "report''.
…
Journalism is great… What other job allows you to ask questions like: "Did you find the half-man half-horse menacing?''

But Mitch's delivery seemed strangely devoid of drugs or dementia. Perhaps those in the south Caboolture suburb of Elimbah should beware. Because with all the unusual activity in southeast Queensland alone, it's possible a horseman is on the hoof.

http://home.yowieocalypse.com/Beastly/

[grendals_bane]

 Melo, on 17 March 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

In year 921  Ahmad ibn Fadlan went on the trip to King of Bulgars in the name of Baghdad caliph. When he turn home he said:


"Near this river (the Volga) is a vast wilderness wherein they say is an animal that is less than a camel and more like a bull in size. Its head is like the head of a camel, and its tail is like the tail of a bull, while its body is like the body of a mule, and its hooves are like the cloven hooves of a bull. In the center of its head, it has a thick round horn, which as it rises from the head of the animal gets to be thinner until it becomes like the point of a lance. The length of some of these horns is from three to five cubits, and there are those that may attain to a greater or lesser length. The animal grazes on the leaves of trees, which are quite green. When it sees a horseman, it makes straight for him, and if he happens to have under him a fast horse, he is rendered safe from it with some effort. If it overtakes him, it removes him from the back of his horse with its horn, hurls him into the air, and then catches him with its horn. It continues in this manner until it kills him. It does not bother the horse in any form or manner. They seek out this animal in the forests in order to kill it. They do that by climbing the tall trees among which it is found, and with this object in mind, they assemble a number of archers with poisoned arrows. When it stands in their midst, they shoot at it until it is severely wounded and killed by them."
"I saw in the king's house three large bowls which looked like [they were made of] the onyx of Yemen. The king informed me that it was made from the base of the horn of the animal. Some of the people of the country told me that it was a rhinoceros."

If anything this would be more likely a description of an Indian Rhino than an Elasmotherium.

[vitruvian12]

 orangepeaceful79, on 18 March 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

Just because an eyewitness account happened centuries ago doesn't make it any more valid than if some yoyo said he saw a unicorn today.  Sounds like either somebody was under the influence of something or just made up a tale for whatever reason.

This isnt even an eyewitness account, its just a guy telling a story about what he heard, he didnt actually state he saw the animal himself.  Im wondering what the purpose of the thread is, that even a thousand years ago local legends existed and were told to travellers?

[the L]

 vitruvian12, on 18 March 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

This isnt even an eyewitness account, its just a guy telling a story about what he heard, he didnt actually state he saw the animal himself.  Im wondering what the purpose of the thread is, that even a thousand years ago local legends existed and were told to travellers?

How do you get that conclusion?

 grendals_bane, on 18 March 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

If anything this would be more likely a description of an Indian Rhino than an Elasmotherium.

Indian rhino in Europe?

[vitruvian12]

 Melo, on 18 March 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

How do you get that conclusion?


Indian rhino in Europe?

"Near this river (the Volga) is a vast wilderness wherein they say is an animal that is less than a camel and more like a bull in size."

Its his quote, but hes only retelling what was told to him.  It isnt a first hand account of him seeing a unicorn.

Edited by vitruvian12, 18 March 2012 - 08:40 PM.

[the L]

 vitruvian12, on 18 March 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

"Near this river (the Volga) is a vast wilderness wherein they say is an animal that is less than a camel and more like a bull in size."

Its his quote, but hes only retelling what was told to him.  It isnt a first hand account of him seeing a unicorn.

Good observation still that doesnt mean that it was made it up story.

[vitruvian12]

 Melo, on 18 March 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Good observation still that doesnt mean that it was made it up story.

Well it makes it a second or third hand story with no known source or supporting evidence what so ever.  That being so it has a lot in common with many made up stories and nothing in common with a first hand account presented with supporting evidence.

[DieChecker]

 Melo, on 17 March 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

In year 921  Ahmad ibn Fadlan went on the trip to King of Bulgars in the name of Baghdad caliph. When he turn home he said:


"Near this river (the Volga) is a vast wilderness wherein they say is an animal that is less than a camel and more like a bull in size. Its head is like the head of a camel, and its tail is like the tail of a bull, while its body is like the body of a mule, and its hooves are like the cloven hooves of a bull. In the center of its head, it has a thick round horn, which as it rises from the head of the animal gets to be thinner until it becomes like the point of a lance. The length of some of these horns is from three to five cubits, and there are those that may attain to a greater or lesser length. The animal grazes on the leaves of trees, which are quite green. When it sees a horseman, it makes straight for him, and if he happens to have under him a fast horse, he is rendered safe from it with some effort. If it overtakes him, it removes him from the back of his horse with its horn, hurls him into the air, and then catches him with its horn. It continues in this manner until it kills him. It does not bother the horse in any form or manner. They seek out this animal in the forests in order to kill it. They do that by climbing the tall trees among which it is found, and with this object in mind, they assemble a number of archers with poisoned arrows. When it stands in their midst, they shoot at it until it is severely wounded and killed by them."
"I saw in the king's house three large bowls which looked like [they were made of] the onyx of Yemen. The king informed me that it was made from the base of the horn of the animal. Some of the people of the country told me that it was a rhinoceros."

I'll call it possible. The Elasmotherium is known to have been in that area as recently as 50,000 years ago. And probably much later then that. Some sources (mostly crap) say 10,000 years ago. And whooly rhinos were in the area roughly 10,000 years ago also. I find it possible that relic populations survived in pockets here and there and what is described here is near the point where they went extinct.

True, the Bolgars and the Rus probably were Tall Tale tellers, but Ahmad ibn Fadlan wrote some accounts that have been backed up by later sources as being true cultural and ceremonial practices. That the Bolgars carried out these hunts probably is true. What they were hunting might be subject to some discussion.

[richdale7]

Sounds like either somebody was under the influence of something or just made up a tale for whatever reason.

[grendals_bane]

 Melo, on 18 March 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Indian rhino in Europe?

I only said it was more likely, as in more likely to be an Indian Rhino than an Elasmotherium, seeing as they died out around 50,000 years ago.

[Nightpath]

The coelecanth died out millions of years ago too...

[hooko22]

Lions used to inhabit the brother part of europe before the day of modern man, same goes for rhinos they were found in a good part of europe many many years ago.

[Mattshark]

Could just be the case that they had a fossil of one.

 Nightpath, on 06 May 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

The coelecanth died out millions of years ago too...

Not really a valid comparison, you are comparing a fish in an inaccessible habitat (that is very different to it Cretaceous ancestor) to a European (an entirely developed continent) terrestrial mammal.

The chances of this animal being in the region and there being no other evidence associated with it is minute at best