413 replies to this topic

[prometheuslocke]

Emma_Acid, on 11 January 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Ah, that old logical fallacy - The Appeal To Quantum Physics.

Best argument I have ever heard.  Wait, you said absolutely nothing!

[prometheuslocke]

Rlyeh, on 11 January 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

A poor attempt at using science to support mythology.
Got something that isn't written by a complete idiot?

A poor attempt at saying something is not correct without giving any reason at all.

Congats on not understanding anything in the link, and deciding its "not true" because .... you are stupid.

[prometheuslocke]

So to date, two people have commented on the "science" I put forward, and neither one could give a logical explanation for why it doesn't work

Also, scowl repeatedly cites references to other peoples "science" and stories, as if they were put here as evidence.

Seriously, is this how you hold a discussion in real life?

[scowl]

You want us to spoon-feed you the explanations so you can argue with us?

1. The article on John Norseen is completely theoretical. The man has nothing and has done nothing other than propose some crazy ideas with no science to support them.

2. The article "NASA Plans to Read Terrorists' Minds in Airports" is a ridiculous article. It cites unknown "NASA documents" as if NASA is Homeland Security. It takes quotes out of context about lie detectors in the hope that you'll think they're mind control devices. The author has claimed to have uncovered an "international terrorist network" which assassinated JFK!

3. The Washington Post article is about a schizophrenic who has the usual stack of unknown documents that don't prove that the government is controlling his mind via unspecific technology.

4. Your link to a laughable blog contains no proof, just a "what do you think is more likely" series of questions. If you're stupid or crazy, you will believe in "Stargate Project" which gives the government "the ability to solve most crimes without much effort..." So why don't they do this? Then the secret will be out! Circular logic -- absence of evidence is evidence because it must be.

5. The Nature article is about controlling electronic devices by physically detecting nerve impulses. This research has been going on for decades. If you had read it and understood it, you would have seen it has nothing to do with mind control and none of it is remote.

6. The Science Daily article talks about a study published in the Journal of Neuroscience about how words and thoughts might be organized in the brain by using a crude experiment of repeating words. Of course if we already had perfect mind control, scientists wouldn't be wasting their time with simple experiments like this.

7. The second Science Daily article is a repeat of the previous, showing that we have very little understanding about how the brain works and how we don't have anywhere enough knowledge of the brain to implement any form of mind control.

8. The article on the Russian web site "Psychotronic weapons: Brain Manipulations From a Distance" is another pile of science fiction describing microwave weapons which cause people to fall asleep. The site also contains similar speculation on aliens and ancient civilizations.

9. You cited yet another blog "End Times && Forbidden Knowledge" which finds random "connections" that are supposed to prove to the reader that the Catholic Church is controlling the Universe (like three famous British scientists went to Trinity College in Cambridge -- shocker!) and then writes an alternate history of how the government has been using mind control. No evidence is supplied of course.

10. You cited another "End Times && Forbidden Knowledge" blog which again writes an alternative history of the world where the Catholic Church controls everything which is pure imagination.

11.  Yet another ridiculous "End Times" blog appeals to the mysteries of quantum physics to describe how mind control works. It quotes a Wikipedia article on quantum entanglement but completely fails to mention that it has nothing to do with mind control. Unfortunately everything the author says about mind control depends on it being pretty much the same thing.

12. And still another "End Times" blog which feverishly cites Revelation and Orwell's 1984 to show that we're all doomed unless we can stop this quantum physics mind control system which the author cannot explain because it cannot exist.

13. Your final link to the "End Times" blog claims that "[A]n alien intelligence has taken over our planet, controlling the minds of the masses." I guess if you're going to make unsubstantiated claims, why not go all the way?

I just wasted an hour of my life.

[Rlyeh]

prometheuslocke, on 13 January 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

A poor attempt at saying something is not correct without giving any reason at all.

Congats on not understanding anything in the link, and deciding its "not true" because .... you are stupid.

I gave you a reason, buybull scripture is not science.

[TheSearcher]

prometheuslocke, on 13 January 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Best argument I have ever heard.  Wait, you said absolutely nothing!

Then again neither did you.

As to your science, how can one pretend that quantum entanglement can transmit information at superluminal speed, when in fact it isn't so and give not other argument than that exact statement and claim that Einstein was in a conspiracy to hide this fact from us all.

[prometheuslocke]

scowl, on 14 January 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

You want us to spoon-feed you the explanations so you can argue with us?

1. The article on John Norseen is completely theoretical. The man has nothing and has done nothing other than propose some crazy ideas with no science to support them.

John Norseen was a project head for Lockheed, working on a government contract.  It wasn't theoretical, he was actually building something.. he was also 'murdered' because of his public statements.

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2. The article "NASA Plans to Read Terrorists' Minds in Airports" is a ridiculous article. It cites unknown "NASA documents" as if NASA is Homeland Security. It takes quotes out of context about lie detectors in the hope that you'll think they're mind control devices. The author has claimed to have uncovered an "international terrorist network" which assassinated JFK!

It was published in a nationally distributed magazine.  I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the "free press" has a much higher standard of fact checking than this forum.  Specifically, that means the comments came directly from a NASA employee.  You are dismissing them because of who reposted it... silly, no?

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3. The Washington Post article is about a schizophrenic who has the usual stack of unknown documents that don't prove that the government is controlling his mind via unspecific technology.

I'm going to write a second post about this.  I think your attitude towards the gang-stalking community is... unfair to say the least.

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4. Your link to a laughable blog contains no proof, just a "what do you think is more likely" series of questions. If you're stupid or crazy, you will believe in "Stargate Project" which gives the government "the ability to solve most crimes without much effort..." So why don't they do this? Then the secret will be out! Circular logic -- absence of evidence is evidence because it must be.

Are you insinuating STARGATE didn't exist?  It's a declassified military project.. it most certainly existed. What I am insinuating is its more likely for it to have been a cover operation than a legitimate 25 year long investigation into psychic phenomenon.  Did you read the blog post?

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5. The Nature article is about controlling electronic devices by physically detecting nerve impulses. This research has been going on for decades. If you had read it and understood it, you would have seen it has nothing to do with mind control and none of it is remote.

If you think mind reading, which is the logical end result of neural recording has nothing to do with mind control..

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6. The Science Daily article talks about a study published in the Journal of Neuroscience about how words and thoughts might be organized in the brain by using a crude experiment of repeating words. Of course if we already had perfect mind control, scientists wouldn't be wasting their time with simple experiments like this.

Please look up the history of Public Key Cryptography.

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7. The second Science Daily article is a repeat of the previous, showing that we have very little understanding about how the brain works and how we don't have anywhere enough knowledge of the brain to implement any form of mind control.

8. The article on the Russian web site "Psychotronic weapons: Brain Manipulations From a Distance" is another pile of science fiction describing microwave weapons which cause people to fall asleep. The site also contains similar speculation on aliens and ancient civilizations.

I just wasted an hour of my life.

Thanks for giving me your reasons.  I do appreciate it.

[prometheuslocke]

@scowl,

As far as gang-stalking.  It seems you consider this phenomenon a 'group delusion,' and my opinion is that such a thing is not possible.  It would be akin to an entire city believing Superman existed, when in fact he does not, and giving repeated testimony as to his escapades.  This is my analogy.

Can you find another example in history of an intricate and complex 'delusion' shared by many people?

Rlyeh, on 14 January 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

I gave you a reason, buybull scripture is not science.

You have second grade reading skills.

[Rlyeh]

prometheuslocke, on 14 January 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

You have second grade reading skills.

Isn't that like two grades more than you?

[scowl]

prometheuslocke, on 14 January 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

As far as gang-stalking.  It seems you consider this phenomenon a 'group delusion,' and my opinion is that such a thing is not possible.

Despite history being full of such cases.

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It would be akin to an entire city believing Superman existed, when in fact he does not, and giving repeated testimony as to his escapades.  This is my analogy.

A city is a geographical point. This is not a geographical phenomenon.

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Can you find another example in history of an intricate and complex 'delusion' shared by many people?

The Heaven's Gate cult believed that suicide would transport them to a space ship flying behind the Hale-Bop comet.

The Manson Family felt that killing some white people would start an American race war.

During the Plagues, people believed that praying to God and self-mutilation would protect them from the disease.

In the 30's the Soviet government believed that the failure of agriculture resulting in millions of deaths was caused by agents of exiled Leon Trotsky causing sabotage, not by central mismanagement.

The Nazis believed that killing non-Aryans would improve Germany.

A few years ago millions of people bought real estate they couldn't afford because they believed real estate never decreases in value. It did and it sent our country into a deep recession.

History is full of groups of people desperately wanting to believe things that aren't true.

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You have second grade reading skills.

Thank you for the insult. That can only mean we're persuading you.

[prometheuslocke]

scowl, on 14 January 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Despite history being full of such cases.



A city is a geographical point. This is not a geographical phenomenon.



The Heaven's Gate cult believed that suicide would transport them to a space ship flying behind the Hale-Bop comet.

The Manson Family felt that killing some white people would start an American race war.

These are examples of closed cults, where the members had little or no contact with outside people.  They are also cases of people that were criminally insane, and committed illegal acts because of their insanity.  Not the worst example, but it doesn't compare with the group of people who call themselves 'targeted individuals' well.

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During the Plagues, people believed that praying to God and self-mutilation would protect them from the disease.

How do you know?  Really, I'm curious.  Regardless, lack of knowledge in science and medicine is not delusion.

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In the 30's the Soviet government believed that the failure of agriculture resulting in millions of deaths was caused by agents of exiled Leon Trotsky causing sabotage, not by central mismanagement.

Seriously, this will probably be something we will never agree on, but any example of a "government" being delusional is, in my opinion, an example of them attempting to change the popular opinion about something they are doing (in this case, their reaction to the failure of agriculture) by spreading disinformation.  This is also part of what happened in Germany.

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The Nazis believed that killing non-Aryans would improve Germany.

Relgious fanatical fascism.   Your best example of a mass delusion, though it was created, nurtured, and prolonged by one of the most powerful state's on the planet.  Do you blame the idiots for believing them, or the state for creating so much idiotic propaganda?

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A few years ago millions of people bought real estate they couldn't afford because they believed real estate never decreases in value. It did and it sent our country into a deep recession.

... again, this was due to a state run deception.  Since Greenspan (and perhaps earlier) the Fed and the Federal fiscal policy inflated the real estate and equity bubble, intentionally.  Fault falls on the government, not the people who were deceived.  Tell me the government was delusional for thinking it would work, and you'd be right, if they weren't doing it on purpose to nationalize several private industries without anyone knowing.

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History is full of groups of people desperately wanting to believe things that aren't true.

Thank you for the insult. That can only mean we're persuading you.

wasn't talking to you.

[prometheuslocke]

Take care to note that ALL of your examples of mass delusion have causes, where some other entity created or perpetuated the delusion.  If you want to tell me you think targeted individuals are wrong about how or why they are being targeted, so long as there is an external force creating that delusion, I agree 100%.

My point is the fantasy world they are telling the world about did not spontaneously appear in all of their subconscious minds instantly, and it is not a case of the internet 'fostering' it.

[scowl]

prometheuslocke, on 14 January 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

John Norseen was a project head for Lockheed, working on a government contract.  It wasn't theoretical, he was actually building something.. he was also 'murdered' because of his public statements.

So where is this "something" he was building?

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It was published in a nationally distributed magazine.

The Washington Times was founded by cult leader Sun Myung Moon and continues to be owned and operated by the church he founded. It is notorious for publishing conservative conspiracy stories. It is not taken seriously by many people.

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I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the "free press" has a much higher standard of fact checking than this forum.  

As a matter of fact I haven't noticed. The Weekly World News was free press. I guess the "higher standard of fact checking" in the free press means you believe Elvis is still alive.

Anyone can publish any nonsense as long as it isn't libelous. That's the free press.

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Specifically, that means the comments came directly from a NASA employee.  You are dismissing them because of who reposted it... silly, no?

How about a little research....

When this article was written over ten years ago, Schlickenmaier's title at NASA was "Program Assessment and Evaluation Lead", not  "aerospace research manager". He had nothing to do with airline safety since he left the FAA in 1991 where he developed airport systems to detect wind shear. If you read the article, Schlickenmaier describes a completely theoretical improved lie detector and repeatedly says that it would require the subject to be wired up to the device. His statement that a wireless device would be "a future application" was intended to be humorous for those who have a sense of humor.

It's now over ten years later. Where is the product of this research? Has this device reached into the minds of terrorists and prevented terrorist acts? If so, why can't I put a bottle of shampoo in my luggage? Why is airport security still patting me down like a criminal and digging through my luggage when they could simply read my mind to see I'm not a terrorist?

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Are you insinuating STARGATE didn't exist?  It's a declassified military project.. it most certainly existed.

I'm saying that it was not the successful mind control project you want to believe it was.

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What I am insinuating is its more likely for it to have been a cover operation than a legitimate 25 year long investigation into psychic phenomenon.  Did you read the blog post?

Of course it is. That's why it's in a blog rambling about secret societies, impossible technology, and a world-wide conspiracy about the Catholic Church.

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If you think mind reading, which is the logical end result of neural recording has nothing to do with mind control..

Yes, reading nerve impulses as described in the Nature article has nothing to do with mind control.

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Please look up the history of Public Key Cryptography.

I don't have to. I use it every time my company ships a product through the Internet.

You've wasted another half hour of my life.

[J. K.]

prometheuslocke, is your argument about the definition of a delusion, or the source of a delusion?  I wasn't able to glean that from your post.

[scowl]

prometheuslocke, on 14 January 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Take care to note that ALL of your examples of mass delusion have causes, where some other entity created or perpetuated the delusion.

And so where do you think all these schizophrenics determined they were victims of mind control? You think they all determined this independently and THEN discovered on the Internet that they were all right?

That's ridiculous. They had schizophrenic symptoms and they found an explanation they liked on the Internet. These sites perpetuate their delusions when they could be getting medical help and living better lives.

When I worked in a mental ward in the 80's, paranoid schizophrenics often believed that the police, the FBI, the CIA, the Masons, or some mysterious organization was after them. There was no mention of mind control. It wasn't until search engines on the Internet became easy enough to use that these grand theories of government satellites and dental implants become part of their delusions.

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My point is the fantasy world they are telling the world about did not spontaneously appear in all of their subconscious minds instantly, and it is not a case of the internet 'fostering' it.

Yes it is. Go to the Mind Control Forum (if it still exists) and read the dozens of victim testimonies. I've read every one of them. You'll find that most of them admit that they didn't know what was happening to them until they found the site on the Internet.