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no such thing as astral travel


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#16    Hippycrite

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:53 PM

Heard a radio program on this topic in the mid '70's,read some literature and tried it. I felt (at the time) that I had done it, and had several spontaneous astral events. The last time, I felt as if I were slipping away permanently and never had another experience. Later I wrote it off as some sort of residual effect of other things I was using to alter reality. But I wouldn't say there isn't something to it. Go ahead and experiment, and good luck.


#17    Professor T

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 11:11 PM

View PostMr.Guapo, on 13 September 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

I have been practicing astral walking/travel for the last two months. I haven't had any luck, but I work a horrible shift 5pm to 5am. I find that I have been getting a better days sleep than I had before I started to practive astral walking. I don't know if it is possible to astral walk or not, but I will continue to try.
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Been there..
If you have a swing shift, that might be the best time to practice..


#18    _Only

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 04:52 AM

View PostNocturnalWatcher, on 13 September 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

you guys know that right?

if it was it would have been proven in the scientific community.


why hasnt anyone been locked in a room, do the astral travel and spoke of what they seen in the room next to them? surely they would have done this at some point.

Scientists have induced very out of body experience like effects in the brain, in the lab: http://www.nytimes.c...23cnd-body.html

And I have personally had an out of body like experience twice within a few days of each other, both while meditating. The first was looking over and seeing my hand lifted up out of my physical hand as a whiteish-blueish hand, twisted up with the finger pointing up and the hand backwards, in an extremely awkward looking position (I remember being uncomfortable just seeing it pointed that way). The second was feeling my head lift up as if I was sitting up from bed, but when I realized my actual head was still laying down (very hard to explain), my head very quickly dropped back down into my head, creating a very odd sensation, and leaving me wide eyed, thinking "w..t..f..".

So, that's okay if you won't believe those type of things are possible until you experience them yourself, but just giving you my few experiences.

The problem where science is having proving or disproving experiences of the mind, is that they are far from understanding it. Once we figure out how the mind works exactly, and why, then you can say something exists or doesn't because it hasn't been proven. Until then, it's like saying there isn't proof that there is a bottom to a lake, despite others telling you they have seen it themselves, because a scientist hasn't come to test it yet, because he doesn't even know how.

But main thing, remote viewing (basically being allegedly psychic) and astral travelling (or having an out of body experience) are far from the same thing. I'm not sure you've realized this yet.

edit: Well I guess I should read the whole thread before replying, since it seems everyone's pretty much already said what I wrote.

Edited by _Only, 14 September 2012 - 05:01 AM.

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#19    Blue Star

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:53 PM

I have been astral travelling most of my life.
It exists for me.
I feel no need to prove to you or anyone.
You are quite free to your opinion but telling me, I should know it doesn't exist is a bit like telling me the world is flat.
Your opinion means nothing to me nor my experiences to date.
It is sad however, that you can not remember your own travels.
You're missing out.
I feel sorry for you, such a pity.


#20    HDesiato

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:29 AM

View PostNocturnalWatcher, on 13 September 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:



sorry to have offended you but you have to realize and see things from my perspective, these are outrageous claims. I guess it wasn't the best of threads but I couldn't help it, i have to say something. I don't want these people getting false hope about something that in my mind is completely fictional.

Sure, the burden of proof rests on those making outrageous claims.
Can we see it as an example of an unverifiable belief system?
Although I believe there is no verifiable evidence of consciousness independent of the body, I recognize the subjective nature of human consciousness allows us to believe what we want, often incorporating belief into gaps of knowledge.

People Merge Supernatural and Scientific Beliefs When Reasoning With the Unknown, Study Shows
Science Daily Link:
     
http://www.scienceda...e Science News)
  
Excerpt: 
Legare said the findings contradict the common assumption that supernatural beliefs dissipate with age and knowledge.
"The findings show supernatural explanations for topics of core concern to humans are pervasive across cultures," Legare said. "If anything, in both industrialized and developing countries, supernatural explanations are frequently endorsed more often among adults than younger children."
The results provide evidence that reasoning about supernatural phenomena is a fundamental and enduring aspect of human thinking, Legare said.
"The standard assumption that scientific and religious explanations compete should be re-evaluated in light of substantial psychological evidence," Legare said. "The data, which spans diverse cultural contexts across the lifespan, shows supernatural reasoning is not necessarily replaced with scientific explanations following gains in knowledge, education or technology."
 Unless a person is actively seeking a strictly physical explanation, simply providing one isn't necessarily going to gain exceptance. If you want to change minds, don't be abrasive as this is known to have the opposite effect.
Keep in mind: an individuals' deeply personal experience has a way of becoming a self defining moment.

Edited by HDesiato, 15 September 2012 - 12:42 AM.


#21    White Unicorn

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:08 AM

View PostBling, on 13 September 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

I'm not really sure what astral travel is, I shall have to go and read about it now! I'll keep an open mind until then.

Since you have an open mind, I will post some on the subject for you as a mystic. Its very hard to describe in words!  

Consider that there is a life force or soul of individual consciousness within your body, this level usually remains in the body and sometimes disconnects during "astral" or near death experiences.  Some people are able to consciously develop it & control it.

It's really all about consciousness, there's DNA RNA encoded memories and they are the program of creation and life that is a cellular sort of consciousness. There's a natural life force that only wills bodily survival, a subconscious linking to that and  the regular consciousness. Regular consciousness can somehow at times link to even higher levels. The highest Unity of all levels is what mystics refer to as God or Cosmic consciousness.  

You can also think of it this way, your body is a physical light bulb, the electric is cosmic life force, and the light produced is consciousness. There are many colors of light depending on the type of bulb some are "astral".

There are many different and lower &  higher levels of this experience and the proof to yourself is when you discover something you perceived in this state REALLY happened. It's a very personal and spiritual event that changes your whole perception of life. It's very difficult to even connect to your own subconscious and understand consciously so you can imagine how hard it would be for someone to connect to the higher levels without much experience. Sceptics don't believe it or try to comprehend it, but who cares if they don't?   

I will give another  parable like explaination why most people can't do it or just reach the level of lucid dreaming which is the beginning of connecting to the subconscious.

These fields of consciousness act are like a worm that develops into a butterfly more or less and the body is a caccoon.
While a worm you crawl  and eat of the leaf but after the death like experience in the caccoon you become the butterfly that can walk, fly and eat of the nectar!  Not all worms live to become what they were meant to be, They just go from egg to worm because they die before they become a butterfly if you know what I mean. There's a lot of mystical symbolism about death and ressurection in so many cultures that is actually referring to this evolution of the soul that can free of the body even before death.

I think most people who sincerely want to try it make the mistake that they are trying to leave the body when you are really just trying to expand this field of consciousness to encompass a larger area outside of the body.

If you see with your eyes have you really left where you are?
If you are blind does that mean others can not see?

You have to go into the center of your being in order to connect to a larger field of consciousness that unifies these other different levels of  consciousness and life force fields.  
It is much harder to develop a field that "disconnects" from the center and actually goes out more or less seperately.  
I think many who fail to experience the astral level,  it's  because they are trying to fly before they  grow their "wings" then wonder why they can't do it!

You have to go within to the center and connect before you can "project " into the higher levels consciously. Mystics sometimes refer to this as connecting to the "heart" center and taking it to the "third eye".

Edited by White Unicorn, 15 September 2012 - 02:18 AM.


#22    bLu3 de 3n3rgy

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:21 AM

View PostWhite Unicorn, on 15 September 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

It's really all about consciousness

I think most people who sincerely want to try it make the mistake that they are trying to leave the body when you are really just trying to expand this field of consciousness to encompass a larger area outside of the body.

If you see with your eyes have you really left where you are?
If you are blind does that mean others can not see?

You have to go within to the center and connect before you can connect to the higher levels consciously.

:tu: The most pertinent parts, imo.

The Astral Projection Techniques Thread Here
*Golden rule, anything you extract, fill with light -- the universe doesn't like voids to be left.
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#23    bLu3 de 3n3rgy

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:25 AM

View PostHDesiato, on 15 September 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Sure, the burden of proof rests on those making outrageous claims.
Can we see it as an example of an unverifiable belief system?


Conciousness and it's tiers/multi levels, is not a "belief system"  --- belief systems belong to the ego.

To see an example, develop your own consciousness. You are wasting your time if you think others experiences can develop your conciousness. Only raw experience can do that I'm afraid.

The Astral Projection Techniques Thread Here
*Golden rule, anything you extract, fill with light -- the universe doesn't like voids to be left.
Posted Image

#24    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 06:56 AM

View PostNocturnalWatcher, on 13 September 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:



sorry to have offended you but you have to realize and see things from my perspective, these are outrageous claims. I guess it wasn't the best of threads but I couldn't help it, i have to say something. I don't want these people getting false hope about something that in my mind is completely fictional.
Considering the govt trains people to do remote viewing FOR them,I dare say they believe it.
I mean gosh ,the govt tells us everything ,and all of it is true ,so all the people who can actually astrally project,who couldn't care less about govt poopie wipes,now know,its not real .......they're all crying in their mead ,that they can no longer project,because its not really real .

Or the government would have told us .
Lol,lol,lol,lol,and one more lol.



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#25    HDesiato

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:33 PM

View PostbLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 15 September 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:



Conciousness and it's tiers/multi levels, is not a "belief system"  --- belief systems belong to the ego.



Do you believe that? :)


#26    HDesiato

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:44 PM

View PostbLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 15 September 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:



Conciousness and it's tiers/multi levels, is not a "belief system"  --- belief systems belong to the ego.

To see an example, develop your own consciousness. You are wasting your time if you think others experiences can develop your conciousness. Only raw experience can do that I'm afraid.

Ego can function as servant to deliver instruction. Transcending the Ego is a noble journey, but make no mistake, it is a culturally constructed concept = a belief system (not that there's anything wrong with that).



#27    SpiritWriter

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 05:57 PM

I tried astral projection before with no luck. I believe in outer body experiences because I have experienced spontanious "religious visions" which seem like they could be similar. The only astral projection I have done so far is having my astral arm come out of my arm. I felt like I may begin to astral travel, while in meditation, but then I was scared and stopped myself. To me astral travel is an interesting concept and probably highly adventurous and exciting for those who can do it. I also think that it is just an advanced type of dreaming. But I believe that dreaming is not something that happens as a result of our individual minds only, but incorporates other aspects of the world we live in and the heavenlies (universe/other dimensions that are unknown/mysterious to us), if this were not the case, there would be no other type of psychic evidence, which in my opinion has been proven time after time after time.

If there was no connection between our minds and the atmosphere, then I would say astral travel wouldn't be possible, but I am not a skeptic. I believe it is possible. Just like I believe the stories I hear about near death experiences. If near death experiences are possible, why shouldn't astral travel be? It just seems that the average ordinary person is unable to achieve this. We don't NEED to experience everything do we? We experience what we experience, and to me, that is the way it is supposed to be. I can say that trying to astral travel puts me to sleep and I think it may have enhanced my dream life, which is well indeed.

Another poster said: "You are wasting your time if you think others experiences can develop your consciousness. Only raw experience can do that I'm afraid.", I think that's where its at...

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Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#28    _Only

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:25 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 16 September 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

I tried astral projection before with no luck. I believe in outer body experiences because I have experienced spontanious "religious visions" which seem like they could be similar. The only astral projection I have done so far is having my astral arm come out of my arm.

That's really cool. I hadn't heard of anyone else having this happen to them also! What color was it?

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#29    SpectralEdge

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:32 AM

Go look up string theory, then look up quantum physics. Then, note that half of the "experts" on said subject do NOT agree.

We can't even come up with a theory that covers physics and gravity at the same time. What makes you think we are prepared to handle the mysteries of the mind?

Look around you at all the "facts" we have known in life that have suddenly changed as humanity grows. The very first theory of gravity put earth as the center of the universe. It took hundreds of years for science to prove them wrong, and despite having proof in the form of planets moving in a certain fashion, no one believed we were not the center of the universe till it was proven with math. And even then, the equation that was the proof...is now considered incorrect!

I am all for science and theories but we obviously don't know everything yet. If you want to be a troll fine, but try to come up with something other than science to back up your argument. Science has been wrong about a lot of things, quite often.


#30    White Crane Feather

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 03:29 PM

Read Rupart sheldrakes "science set free".  the old modalities of "proove it" are an immature expression.


http://www.amazon.co...aw/d/0770436706

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