135 replies to this topic

[and then]

They do not care to hear any other's ideas; preferring their small mean ones. I guess it makes them feel powerful. It certainly can't make them feel intelligent.


Or perhaps they have no need to prove either and are just stating their beliefs?  I've noticed that most here either reject religions outright or pontificate about the beauty and diversity of different religions as they would about the colorful variations in a butterfly collection.  Never buying in to any specific faith because maybe they fear being judged by others.  Your predilection to judge others as small and mean because they try to live a life based on faith, willing to stand and be counted in the public arena may make you seem intellectually superior(perhaps you are) but it in no way minimizes those you mock.

[RavenHawk]

Lion6969, on 20 February 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

I see the usual suspects are here to lambast Islam, you know who you are.

Moon god theory is absolutely false. So false the guy who invented it and doctored evidence is a laughing stock and not recognised by his peers. Infact the google academics on here you bring such trash forth don't even know the names of the original perpertrators of this outrageous lie. Lol. You jokers. There have been plenty of threads where that claim along with islam plagiarising christianity or others have been comprehensively destroyed. Get up with programme and past the age old crusader myths and propaganda still circulating in churches and especially the net. Do some true research for god sake!

Silver Asad is not a religious dictator but a secular dictator. Your a fundmentalist secularist or humanist, did it lead you to radical extremes?

I love it.  Whenever I’m critical of something, I get lambasted.  Here’s a clue.  Just because someone is critical of something, doesn’t mean they are lambasting it.  If I was going to lambast Islam, I’d start with what Ambassador Adja said to Thomas Jefferson.  Then I’d go into the air of denial Muslim apologists espouse.  And I guess my Christmas example was wasted on you or perhaps you are just so arrogant that you couldn’t acknowledge the similarities…  Pagan roots of Christianity is ok, but like Achmed the Dead Terrorist would say, “I kel U!” if anyone dares mentions the pagan roots of Islam.  I’ve seen the evidence for and against the moon god theory and the one thing I can say is that it is *NOT* absolutely false.  It may be inaccurate but if you understood what I was saying then Allah being a moon god isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  This is just where the early Semites put him.  He has always been GOD; he just wasn’t recognized as such until Mohammed.  Do you understand?  

Islam plagiarizing Christianity is like saying that Islam is an offshoot of Christianity.  Much of the Knowledge at the time was well known.  So it was out there available to anyone.  The real myth is having an Islamic apologist crying that it is an old Crusader myth.

As far as secularism in a Muslim nation goes is not the same as in non Muslim nations.  The faith is more tightly interwoven into everyday life than it is in Christianity.  Christians aren’t under the pain of death for partnering Allah with other authority or breaking the ties of kinship, etc.  If you are Muslim, it doesn’t matter if you are secular or sectarian.

[Beckys_Mom]

RavenHawk, on 21 February 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

  Pagan roots of Christianity is ok, but like Achmed the Dead Terrorist would say, "I kel U!" if anyone dares mentions the pagan roots of Islam.  

That is just plain madness... It is like wanting everyone who is educated in the history of their faith to walk around in denial and ignore all historical references  !!

[Beckys_Mom]

The Silver Thong, on 20 February 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

One abslute is that it is fact Islam stole from Christianity. Trying to get back on topic. Islam is as much a theif of belief as Christianity is.

I have to agree....I feel religions have been borrowing off each other  from the word go... People who act in denial of it will say something like  Well that is wrong, you must be getting that info from a anti religious website  lol...

[hetrodoxly]

odas, on 20 February 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Captives of war:
They perform (their) vows, and they fear a Day Whose evil flies far and wide.  And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive -- (Saying), 'We feed you For the sake of Allah alone:  No reward do we desire from you, nor thanks.'  (The Noble Quran, 76:7-9)"

Captives of war: what if they don't perform (their) vows, and they don't fear a Day Whose evil flies far and wide.  And they don't feed, for the love of Allah?

Edited by hetrodoxly, 21 February 2012 - 08:48 PM.

[odas]

hetrodoxly, on 21 February 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

Captives of war: what if they don't perform (their) vows, and they don't fear a Day Whose evil flies far and wide.  And they don't feed, for the love of Allah?

Then it is not according to the quran, simple as that. Did you undestand to who this vers is pointing?

[and then]

Taqiya is a very useful tool.  You're allowed to deny even your faith if it will save your skin.

[odas]

So is ignorance.

[and then]

odas, on 22 February 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

So is ignorance.

How quaint.  The issue is premeditated deception to obtain one's goals.  And the religiopolitical system of Islam is built on it.

[The Pharaoh]

and then, on 22 January 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Judaism predates Christianity by several thousand years and Christianity predates Islam by several hundred years(about 600 I think).  I have never heard that Islam was an offshoot of a Christian sect.  Muhammed was clear that the other two religions were "people of the book" (the OT)
Today when you hear a Muslim say "Allah Hu Akhbar" they are not speaking of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  They call there god allah and are saying he is GREATEST of other gods.  Allah is a pagan god of the crescent moon I believe.  I'm no scholar but I do know that Muslims do NOT pray to the same God as Jews and Christians.

no actually they all the same ,how i got my info will i was a muslim and i studied the bible and budhism and torah and btw "ALLAHU AKBAR" means "GOD IS GREAT" in arabic and there's no such thing as a crescent moon god in islam ,the cresent moon is related to the month "RAMADAN" the month of fasting "SAWM"
hope i helped

[RavenHawk]

The Pharaoh, on 23 February 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

and there's no such thing as a crescent moon god in islam ,the cresent moon is related to the month "RAMADAN" the month of fasting "SAWM"
hope i helped

You are correct in that there is no moon god in *ISLAM*.  Interesting thought that Ramadan is a Muslim observance.

[RavenHawk]

and then, on 22 January 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Muhammed was clear that the other two religions were "people of the book" (the OT)

Not really the OT, just the first part of Genesis up to Abraham.

Quote

Today when you hear a Muslim say "Allah Hu Akhbar" they are not speaking of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  They call there god allah and are saying he is GREATEST of other gods.  

Yes they are.  Abraham is the father of both religions.  In this sense, Islam is not an offshoot, but a brother religion.

Quote

Allah is a pagan god of the crescent moon I believe.  I'm no scholar but I do know that Muslims do NOT pray to the same God as Jews and Christians.

Allah the moon god pre dates Islam.  Mohammed probably recognized him as GOD.  I don’t think that Mohammed created Allah out of thin air.  If there was no relationship, then Allah would have had a different name.

[FLOMBIE]

RavenHawk, on 23 February 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

Allah the moon god pre dates Islam.  Mohammed probably recognized him as GOD.  I don’t think that Mohammed created Allah out of thin air.  If there was no relationship, then Allah would have had a different name.

May I ask where this idea comes from? If you are talking about the crescent moon, it refers to Ramadan. It is called Hilal, and it is NOT worshiped, never.

Or maybe you are referring to the pre-islam god Hubal? A connection between Hubal and Allah has been dismissed long ago.

EDIT: There used to be as great paper on this, published by Georgetown uni. The pdf somehow doesn't load righ now. I will link another copy if I can find it.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 23 February 2012 - 02:02 PM.

[RavenHawk]

FLOMBIE, on 23 February 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

May I ask where this idea comes from? If you are talking about the crescent moon, it refers to Ramadan. It is called Hilal, and it is NOT worshiped, never.

Of course, it is not worshiped now.  But it’s interesting that an Islamic event is tied with the moon.  That may be guilt by association but it’s still interesting.

Quote

Or maybe you are referring to the pre-islam god Hubal? A connection between Hubal and Allah has been dismissed long ago.

This is where the confusion comes in.  It makes it too easy to claim that it had been dismissed.  Hubal was defeated by Allah at the battle of Badr.  Therefore, they are not the same.  But if Hubal is the moon god (which some say he is and others not), then I won’t try to argue that Allah is the moon god.  Whether or not Allah was a moon god or not, is not the issue.  But Allah did exist prior to Islam and more than likely was a pagan god.  Or more precisely, man applied the attributes of a pagan god on Allah.  Allah was always GOD but pre-Islamic Semites did not recognize him as such until Mohammed realized that he was.  This would explain why Mohammed thought that all religions were false and a deprivation of the word of GOD.  And that became reinforced with the schism in the Christian world as to the nature of Christ.

Quote

EDIT: There used to be as great paper on this, published by Georgetown uni. The pdf somehow doesn't load righ now. I will link another copy if I can find it.

I think I’ve seen that but I would love to see it (again?).  It looks like it is available as a pdf from oxfordjournals but I don’t care to register to get it.

[hetrodoxly]

odas, on 22 February 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

Then it is not according to the quran, simple as that. Did you undestand to who this vers is pointing?

You know what i'm alluding to?

The most telling word in your post is "captive" this is the first none Islamic mention of Mohammed....

The earliest documented knowledge of Muhammad stems from Byzantine sources. They indicate that both Jews and Christians saw Muhammad as a "false prophet". In the Doctrina Jacobi nuper baptizati of 634, Muhammad is portrayed as being "deceiving for do prophets come with sword and chariot? you will discover nothing true from the said prophet except human bloodshed."