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Are angels real?


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Poll: Are angels real? (82 member(s) have cast votes)

Are angels real?

  1. Yes (55 votes [67.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 67.07%

  2. No (27 votes [32.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.93%

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#76    Mr Walker

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:02 AM

View Postjoc, on 14 January 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Could you describe her please.  Did she appear as something visual?  Audible?  Or was there a psychic connection?

One night while playing cards with my family, I saw a reflection in a mirror of a woman  approaching our front door. she passed slowly in front of our large front windows and came to the corner of the house near the door. She would have been about 2-3 metres behind me, outside the house. I was sitting with my back to her but saw her clearly and for half a minute in the mirror. I went to meet her at the door, but when i got there, there was no one there .

Our house sat on a hill side in farm land and i could see in all directions for many kilometres. No one was about.

Any way when describing the woamn and the strange incident to other people i was told  by sevral that her descriptions resembled a well known ghost from a haunted house nearby.

There is a long story and many witnesses to this ghost. In brief the woman was in her forties or so. She wore a long white gown (which turned out ot be a night dress) and a white night cap which held her hair in place She had floated up to our door about a metre fromthe ground by my measurements afterwards (Unless she was 3 metres tall)  The house she had haunted for over 100 years burned to the ground in the 1970s.

She stayed in our house for several years and then disappeared.

I found out from research that she had lost about 12 young children over two winters in a diptheria epidemic in the mid 1800s and had hung herself in depression while wearing her night wear. She haunted her house so badly that, for more than100 years, grown men would not go near it at night, and no one would approach it alone, even during the day.

She called out a lot. Her main words were "where are you" and "shut the door" She also cried and sobbed a lot.
I surmise she was looking for her dead children. She never worried me and i felt sorry for her. My wife heard her too but denied this for many years, because her beliefs mean she does not accept the existence of ghosts.  Eventually she admitted  to me that she heard the ghost, but would not tell anyone else this.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#77    Zaphod222

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:35 AM

View Postjoc, on 13 January 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

You are completely glossing over all Quantum Physics, and other Sciences that deal with the subject.  Black and White is not even black and white, you know?

Do tell us where quantum physics and other sciences deal with angels. I am waiting... but I am not holding my breath.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#78    Zaphod222

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:59 AM

View Postpapadad, on 13 January 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Well,throughout history there have been thousands of Angelic reported encounters,while I cant recall any FSM or Godzilla incidents,So that not even comes close as an explanation.Sorry,but I dont think I earned a "Good Grief" for that.Just respectfully stating what I believe in.

I dont see how anyone can write it off as vivid imagination,its all left to each individual as whether its real or not,and I just happen to believe.

These "angelic encounters" are reported by whom? By religious believers of course. Once there are enough pastafarians, you will also have plenty of reports of spiritual encounters with the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Which carry exactly the same weight.

What is the difference between, say, Christianity, and Pastafarianism or the belief that Elvis is alive? None, except the numbers of the gullible.

I absolutely do not deny that there are things for which we currently do not have a good explanation. However, using religious gobbledygook as an explanation is a copout.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#79    Render

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:16 AM

View PostEtu Malku, on 13 January 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

Before I can answer this poll, I need to know how you are defining "real"?

You don't need to know that, just read the article.

Which i did not write btw, im just asking the question the article poses.

Edited by Render, 14 January 2013 - 09:18 AM.


#80    Render

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:18 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 12 January 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

You are factually wrong.

Your opinion, while honest and logical, is based on your own lack of encounter with an angel.

Well, this is hilarious.

You saying someone is factually wrong because they did not see something is as much factually wrong as you saying they do exist because you believed you saw one.

That's why scientific methods to prove something exist...because "just seeing something" isn't proof, try and understand this simple notion.


#81    Render

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:36 AM

So, a question to all you believers: What about the Third Man syndrome

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The Third Man factor or Third Man syndrome refers to the reported situations where an unseen presence such as a "spirit" provides comfort or support during traumatic experiences. Sir Ernest Shackleton in his book South, described his belief that an incorporeal being joined him and two others during the final leg of their journey. Shackleton wrote, "during that long and racking march of thirty-six hours over the unnamed mountains and glaciers of South Georgia, it seemed to me often that we were four, not three."[1] His admission resulted in other survivors of extreme hardship coming forward.

The Third Man Factor: How those in dire peril have felt a sudden presence at their side, inspiring them to survive

Quote

Thought to be named after the biblical story in which a resurrected Christ appears to two of his disciples on the road to Emmaus, and walks along beside them, it has been experienced by mountaineers, polar explorers, divers, prisoners of war, solo sailors, astronauts, even 9/11 survivors.

http://www.dailymail...ng-survive.html


#82    Glenville86

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:51 AM

I would have to say yes.  You always have a fence with those who believe on one side, those who do not believe on the other side and the ones sitting on the fence who cannot make a decision.

To each their own and I wish the best for all groups.


#83    Mr Walker

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:34 AM

View PostRender, on 14 January 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Well, this is hilarious.

You saying someone is factually wrong because they did not see something is as much factually wrong as you saying they do exist because you believed you saw one.

That's why scientific methods to prove something exist...because "just seeing something" isn't proof, try and understand this simple notion.

I am sorry, but seeing something generally does prove its existence, or do you regularly attempt to walk through walls, in the belief that, althoiugh you can see them, they are not actually real? :devil:
Ii do not require scientific proofs to know that I exist, or that my wife exists, or that my dog exists; nor do I require scientific proofs to know that something as clearly physical, self aware, and communicative as god exists.

Your belief that "'god" does not exist is reasonable but erroneous, because I have encountered  the entity commonly referred to by humans as god on many occasions, and live in an ongoing relationship with it.

  Of course you can chose not to accept that the entity I chose to call god, really is god. That's a fair counter, but no matter how much you deny it, or disbelieve it, the entity is real, has physical existence and interacts in a self aware conscious and determined way with me. And reading accounts throughout history, I can see its interaction with many, many other humans in the same physical, sapient and deliberate manner.

If you (any person) have not personally encountered ANYTHING, then you are accepting its existence via belief. Its easy to believe in the existence of somethings you have never encountered, but harder to believe in others.

Let us suppose I do not believe in little grey men. Now if another human actually encounters such a being, then no matter how much i believe, and how rational my belief seems to me, I am wrong and i am wrong because one physical specimen, and one  physical encounter makes my disbelief null and void.  It doesnt matter how strong, or how precious, my disbelief is within me, i am just wrong.

I no more believe i saw an angel or angels, than i believe i see my wife and dog.

After all, other witnesses saw them too, they interacted with reality as all real things interact with reality, and they appeared in physical form in the same contextual relationship to their environment as all physical things do. They  left physical trace evidences of their existence and they fulfilled the promises they made to me .

I am neither a fool nor uneducated. Nor am I mentally ill, drunk, drugged sleepy or confused, when i encounter these things.  It took me a long time to work through,  in my mind, the nature and the reality of my encounters, and  i used the considerable intellgence, and all the tools of a long and rigourous education at my disposal.  

I am pleased to have humoured you, but again I must wonder if humour is being used to deflect a more worrying concern. Not that it  is really any concern of mine, but how would your world be changed if  you stopped laughing, and  came to accept that i am actually describing a very real and significant interaction with a powerful alien being, which many humans call god.

Edited by Mr Walker, 14 January 2013 - 11:39 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#84    Paranoid Android

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:39 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 14 January 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Once there are enough pastafarians, you will also have plenty of reports of spiritual encounters with the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Which carry exactly the same weight.

What is the difference between, say, Christianity, and Pastafarianism or the belief that Elvis is alive? None, except the numbers of the gullible.
I have clearly explained the difference twice to you. I shan't explain it a third time. I have no desire to waste my time on someone that prefers using their mouth more than their ears.

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#85    joc

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:45 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 14 January 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

One night while playing cards with my family, I saw a reflection in a mirror of a woman  approaching our front door. she passed slowly in front of our large front windows and came to the corner of the house near the door. She would have been about 2-3 metres behind me, outside the house. I was sitting with my back to her but saw her clearly and for half a minute in the mirror. I went to meet her at the door, but when i got there, there was no one there .

Our house sat on a hill side in farm land and i could see in all directions for many kilometres. No one was about.

Any way when describing the woamn and the strange incident to other people i was told  by sevral that her descriptions resembled a well known ghost from a haunted house nearby.

There is a long story and many witnesses to this ghost. In brief the woman was in her forties or so. She wore a long white gown (which turned out ot be a night dress) and a white night cap which held her hair in place She had floated up to our door about a metre fromthe ground by my measurements afterwards (Unless she was 3 metres tall)  The house she had haunted for over 100 years burned to the ground in the 1970s.

She stayed in our house for several years and then disappeared.

I found out from research that she had lost about 12 young children over two winters in a diptheria epidemic in the mid 1800s and had hung herself in depression while wearing her night wear. She haunted her house so badly that, for more than100 years, grown men would not go near it at night, and no one would approach it alone, even during the day.

She called out a lot. Her main words were "where are you" and "shut the door" She also cried and sobbed a lot.
I surmise she was looking for her dead children. She never worried me and i felt sorry for her. My wife heard her too but denied this for many years, because her beliefs mean she does not accept the existence of ghosts.  Eventually she admitted  to me that she heard the ghost, but would not tell anyone else this.
Wow!  That's some fanciful story you have there...but I believe you...thanks for sharing. :tu:

Edited by joc, 14 January 2013 - 07:45 PM.

Posted Image
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

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#86    joc

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:55 PM

Quote



Quote

Posted Imagejoc, on 13 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

You are completely glossing over all Quantum Physics, and other Sciences that deal with the subject.  Black and White is not even black and white, you know?




Do tell us where quantum physics and other sciences deal with angels. I am waiting... but I am not holding my breath.
Quantum Physics, which I do not claim to have any expertise in, just rudimentary understanding, deals with particles and waves, frequencies and such.  We know that the solid reality we all enjoy is not solid, nor is it even reality, because the smallest particles exist and then don't exist and then exist again.  Therefore, even the reality we know and love is actually phasing in and phasing out of existence all the time.  Our awareness is a very mysterious thing...is it energy...does it only exist within our brain cells?  Or is it something else?  We know that our brains produce Alpha Waves at very low frequencies.

All of that is to say that, One just cannot define Reality as what the five senses tell us it is.  There are many dimensions of that Reality.   Consider Life and Death for a moment.  Life cannot exist without Death and Death cannot exist without Life...they hold each other in the balance.  Without Death, there would be no life..and without life, well, of course there would be no death...

So, between the phasing in and phasing out of existence...there lies a huge potential for Angels, Demons, Ghosts, etc.  This, I believe, is the dimension in which all paranormal activity occurs.  An Angel may appear in front of me, just as real as you, and may say something audible that I fully understand...and then it's gone.  Where did it go?  And when I tell you about it you just say I am a lunatic...but inbetween the phasing in and phasing out of reality, there is a void...something must be in that void...

Posted Image
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

ReverbNation

#87    Jor-el

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:29 PM

View Postjoc, on 14 January 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Quantum Physics, which I do not claim to have any expertise in, just rudimentary understanding, deals with particles and waves, frequencies and such.  We know that the solid reality we all enjoy is not solid, nor is it even reality, because the smallest particles exist and then don't exist and then exist again.  Therefore, even the reality we know and love is actually phasing in and phasing out of existence all the time.  Our awareness is a very mysterious thing...is it energy...does it only exist within our brain cells?  Or is it something else?  We know that our brains produce Alpha Waves at very low frequencies.

All of that is to say that, One just cannot define Reality as what the five senses tell us it is.  There are many dimensions of that Reality.   Consider Life and Death for a moment.  Life cannot exist without Death and Death cannot exist without Life...they hold each other in the balance.  Without Death, there would be no life..and without life, well, of course there would be no death...

So, between the phasing in and phasing out of existence...there lies a huge potential for Angels, Demons, Ghosts, etc.  This, I believe, is the dimension in which all paranormal activity occurs.  An Angel may appear in front of me, just as real as you, and may say something audible that I fully understand...and then it's gone.  Where did it go?  And when I tell you about it you just say I am a lunatic...but inbetween the phasing in and phasing out of reality, there is a void...something must be in that void...

Actually it goes a bit further than that, I like one particular example to open peoples minds to the possibility that there is more to the universe than what our 5 senses can define at determine. The example is old but it leaves no room for doubt. That it is presented by a distinguished scientist that most of us know about just makes it icing on the cake...


No way can people fail to understand that there are things we cannot percieve and that are just as real as we are.



Posted Image


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#88    scowl

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:49 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 14 January 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

I am sorry, but seeing something generally does prove its existence, or do you regularly attempt to walk through walls, in the belief that, althoiugh you can see them, they are not actually real? :devil:

If I ever needed to prove a wall existed, that's exactly what I would. However if angels were as common as walls, we would not need to prove they exist.


#89    Mr Walker

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:58 PM

View Postscowl, on 14 January 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

If I ever needed to prove a wall existed, that's exactly what I would. However if angels were as common as walls, we would not need to prove they exist.

Incorrect. Commonality has nothing to do with reality, only with a person's acceptance of reality. One should, logically, accept  the existence of a wall, and of an angel, using the same  evidences and logics. It should not matter how many walls or angels there are in existence, or whether other people have encountered them or not. For example you could try walking through an angel to test its solidity, just as you might for a wall.

You are facing the difficulty/limitations of experiential knowledge. You have encountered a wall, and thus know it is real. Until you encounter god, or an angel, personally, you will always be forced into a belief position about their existence.

Edited by Mr Walker, 14 January 2013 - 11:04 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#90    Render

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:42 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 14 January 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Incorrect. Commonality has nothing to do with reality, only with a person's acceptance of reality. One should, logically, accept  the existence of a wall, and of an angel, using the same  evidences and logics. It should not matter how many walls or angels there are in existence, or whether other people have encountered them or not. For example you could try walking through an angel to test its solidity, just as you might for a wall.

You are facing the difficulty/limitations of experiential knowledge. You have encountered a wall, and thus know it is real. Until you encounter god, or an angel, personally, you will always be forced into a belief position about their existence.


Btw, in your lil angels, wall analogy .. that would mean the wall isn't really there but a mirage which only a "lucky few" can see. Thus disproving it's existence and limiting it to a state of illusion. Because not everyone sees angels , but everyone sees the real existing wall...get it? Probably not.

Anyway.. I for one certainly realise i've encountered a wall here, with you.
Science and reality just isn't your thing. You simply keep on making up these "analogies" that don't make any sense. Thinking that explains your point. It is funny though, gotta hand you that.

Edited by Render, 15 January 2013 - 01:44 AM.





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