105 replies to this topic

[Yamato]

questionmark, on 15 January 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

He probably is not so wrong. America before 1770 was all but homogeneous, colonies were directed by half a dozen different denominations of pretty radical ( to not say fanatic) bible thumpers, additionally there were the liberals who wanted some more breathing space than what Europe could offer and political refugees like the Irish Scots. If  they could not find a common enemy I doubt they would have found common ground.

Incidental characteristics.   Picking up guns and defending oneself doesn't require Bibles or diversity.

[questionmark]

Yamato, on 15 January 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

Incidental characteristics.   Picking up guns and defending oneself doesn't require Bibles or diversity.

That always depends on how you want to see that. Without a common enemy Corp's history teacher's scenario is more than likely. And naturally for the Puritans, Quakers and liberals there was no better enemy than Farmer George.

[Yamato]

questionmark, on 15 January 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

That always depends on how you want to see that. Without a common enemy Corp's history teacher's scenario is more than likely. And naturally for the Puritans, Quakers and liberals there was no better enemy than Farmer George.

History is rich with scenarios of revolution having nothing to do with Puritans, Quakers, liberals or "King" George.

[questionmark]

Yamato, on 15 January 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

History is rich with scenarios of revolution having nothing to do with Puritans, Quakers, liberals or "King" George.

Quite so, the point is not the revolution, the point is that they would have been at each others throat sooner or later had there been no revolution. In fact, if you look at the current state in the US one can suppose that it just has been dormant for 250 years.

[Yamato]

questionmark, on 15 January 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Quite so, the point is not the revolution, the point is that they would have been at each others throat sooner or later had there been no revolution. In fact, if you look at the current state in the US one can suppose that it just has been dormant for 250 years.

You're nitpicking about the US revolution in particular over incidental characteristics that have zero causality to it occurring again and again anywhere and eventually everywhere in the world.  If we want to stick with the reasons people rise up against their controllers, that'd probably be a good idea.

[questionmark]

Yamato, on 15 January 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

You're nitpicking about the US revolution in particular over incidental characteristics that have zero causality to it occurring again and again anywhere and eventually everywhere in the world.  If we want to stick with the reasons people rise up against their controllers, that'd probably be a good idea.

Reread the whole thing, we are not talking about no reasons for no uprising, we are talking about the reason why suddenly 13 very diverse settling streams came together. And how they did not like each other very much before that.

[Yamato]

questionmark, on 15 January 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

Reread the whole thing, we are not talking about no reasons for no uprising, we are talking about the reason why suddenly 13 very diverse settling streams came together. And how they did not like each other very much before that.

We are talking sir, about the right to kill tyrants, not deer.   You're talking about the minutia of the US revolution thinking you have any relevance to the topic at hand.

[Corp]

Yamato, on 15 January 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

How can we be this comprehensively ignorant of every case of government killing its own people throughout the history of mankind?   It's happening right under our noses, will you wake up please? The US government is the most warmaking government in the world today.  Why this blind faith in government sir?  What is the source of this trust?   Do you understand that the biggest slaughterer of American life is the US government sir?   Do you understand what the US government did to her own people in the Civil War, the divine right to legally put us to our deaths depending on a trial by often-paranoid peers.   Do you understand what the US government did to the Native Americans living on this soil?   To people with different colored skin.   To millions of foreigners now dead and buried because they lived under bureaucrats our government didn't find politically agreeable.  

Maybe you should just move Yamato if you think the US government is going to start murdering people at any moment. Most other Western countries don't have this fear. I know I'm not expecting the Canadian government to go bathing in blood any time soon.

And there is no blind faith sir. Just just no endless fear of mass murder. If the US government is truly as evil as you seem to think they are do you really think a few lines of legislative law is going to stop them?

[aztek]

Corp, on 15 January 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Maybe you should just move Yamato if you think the US government is going to start murdering people at any moment. Most other Western countries don't have this fear. I know I'm not expecting the Canadian government to go bathing in blood any time soon.

And there is no blind faith sir. Just just no endless fear of mass murder. If the US government is truly as evil as you seem to think they are do you really think a few lines of legislative law is going to stop them?

well, looking at just that issue we don't see big picture here. there are planty of good things in usa.
i've been to every continent except antarctika, in at least 15 countries, in my life, most are owesome, but i would not want to live in any of them. regardless how safe they are, after all it only takes once. if you get shot\stabed in safest country in the world, does it matter that it that was safest country, does it???
i understand every american that doesn't accept a notion to move out, and respect this pov. imo there is nowhere to move from usa. some do move out, but i think of it as good riddance.
so i respect those that fight for their right where they are, not run away with their tail between their legs somewhere safe.
america is what americans make of it.
gvmnt however isn't always helping, but we manage.i noticed another thing here, immigrants that came here from all over the world love this country more than some who was born here.guess they can't see what they got, they are usually those that have not visited other countries.

Edited by aztek, 15 January 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[Corp]

Oh sure there are lots of reasons to love living in America. As with most Canadians I have family and friends who have moved to American and are perfectly happy with the lives they're making for themselves. Though on the flip side they don't seem to think the government is an oppressive monster waiting to kill them as some of our members seem to think. Just seems logical to me that if you're living in fear of your government and think being armed is the only way to hold off this fear then it's time to find another place to live.

Edited by Corp, 15 January 2013 - 09:39 PM.

[aztek]

Corp, on 15 January 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

Oh sure there are lots of reasons to love living in America. As with most Canadians I have family and friends who have moved to American and are perfectly happy with the lives they're making for themselves. Though on the flip side they don't seem to think the government is an oppressive monster waiting to kill them as some of our members seem to think. Just seems logical to me that if you're living in fear of your government and think being armed is the only way to hold off this fear then it's time to find another place to live.

well, as we see what our gvmnt does around the world, i would not rule anything out, better be prepeared, than not. wont hurt.

[Yamato]

Corp, on 15 January 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Maybe you should just move Yamato if you think the US government is going to start murdering people at any moment. Most other Western countries don't have this fear. I know I'm not expecting the Canadian government to go bathing in blood any time soon.

And there is no blind faith sir. Just just no endless fear of mass murder. If the US government is truly as evil as you seem to think they are do you really think a few lines of legislative law is going to stop them?

The US government is murdering people already.  Wake the F up.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Yamato, on 15 January 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

How cemented over does the world's parking lot have to get before we stop worrying about "wildlife" walking in from the last vestiges of nature it has left? People kill tens of millions of animals every single day in the world so us consumers can have that breast or filet on our plate.   Those animals are unlucky as all hell they're not as cute as Jennie's pretty kitty cat.   It's animals who need to worry about us because we're destroying the natural environment.  Worry about jellyfish sandwiches, and other such things that a humanist might have the moral capacity to care about.

Most of this country is green space (or, as it's Australia, brown space).
However, we do have some of the world's most venomous X (spiders, snakes, jellyfish, octopuses, fish, mammals...) and most of them are insane enough to actually chase after you rather then as most sane animals do, which is hide from humans.

[Yamato]

Wearer of Hats, on 15 January 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

Most of this country is green space (or, as it's Australia, brown space).
However, we do have some of the world's most venomous X (spiders, snakes, jellyfish, octopuses, fish, mammals...) and most of them are insane enough to actually chase after you rather then as most sane animals do, which is hide from humans.

Then I won't involve myself in how you choose to defend yourself from this insanity of nature against the humanity in Australia, while I ask you to do the same for me over here.

[F3SS]

I agree with aztek. For most Americans, moving is for pussies. Those that usually move in regards to how they feel about America don't move because they're afraid of the government. They move because they hate America, like Johnny Depp. Who knows how things would go down in the event of something real bad but I sure as hell ain't leaving. I'm going to fight and stand on the side of right.