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Are Jihadists damaging Islam's reputation?


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#91    Setton

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:41 AM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 06 March 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

now thirdly and most importantly ... how on earth do you consider honor kill is backward " ethnically " ???!!
and what honor kill has to do with ethnic .. i asked this question for mr Frank so i think if some one should answer it should be him
aparently.. you got no idea what you talking about so i think you need to breath alittle i have no idea what you meant
or how honor kill and ethnic are related correct me if am wrong my english not perfect
but last time i checked ethnic means " certain race " now to say backward " ethnically " is to say they're backward race

The word used was ethically not ethnically.

Edited by Setton, 06 March 2013 - 11:41 AM.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
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I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#92    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:54 AM

View PostSetton, on 06 March 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

The word used was ethically not ethnically.
Yes.  I used the word I intended to use.  The Muslim countries are ethically backward.  They even still have slaves in remote areas, the way women are treated is often terrible, as is the way they treat other minorities.  They practice killing people who leave their religion, or who do things they deem sacrilegious.  Need I go on?

If I had said "ethnically," by the way, I would not have been talking about race anyway.  Ethnicity is culture, not race.

My English needs correcting from time to time -- I'm not a native speaker either, but I do know the difference here.


#93    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:09 PM

View PostSetton, on 06 March 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

The word used was ethically not ethnically.
well thanks for clearing it out
morality is middle eastern countries are way better
just look at crime rates and compare .. case closed

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#94    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:16 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 March 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Yes.  I used the word I intended to use.  The Muslim countries are ethically backward.  They even still have slaves in remote areas, the way women are treated is often terrible, as is the way they treat other minorities.  They practice killing people who leave their religion, or who do things they deem sacrilegious.  Need I go on?

If I had said "ethnically," by the way, I would not have been talking about race anyway.  Ethnicity is culture, not race.

My English needs correcting from time to time -- I'm not a native speaker either, but I do know the difference here.
my english is not anywhere near perfect that's why i was asking for explaination is all
and i disagree with you on everything you said
morality in muslim majority countries are often at the top
here in my country in ordinary times a person can go anywhere all night
can they do that in usa ? without getting robbed or killed or raped ?

i can go on in full compare between people's morals in both western and eastern socity
and trust me it will favor the eastern muslims society but now it's not the time perhaps later

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#95    shadowhive

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

Are jihadists damaging islams reputation? I think the answer is yes. But I think the same can be said when any group does something bad and then says 'my religion says it's ok'.

I look at islam and I don't like what I say. I see see how it treats women, how it treats men. I hear how in muslim countries punishments are barbaric, how 'religious morality police' run around arresting people and how they create a climate of fear. And you know what? It scares me. I'm not going to lie. I am scared of those things, and I'm scared of them happening here. Because you know what? I hear of muslims here killing members of their families or others in 'honor killing' and I hear of how badly they treat their own and other people. Are all muslims like that? Most likely not, but enough are to make it rather troubling.

I think basing your morals on religion is a very bad idea.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
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#96    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

I dare say you fantasize about being safe at night in major Muslim cities.

Crime rates are a statistical matter mainly based on what gets reported and what doesn't, and so has little meaning.  The Dutch are notorious for their low crime rates based on police losing reports.

The ethical issue stands out very well in Syria at the moment and the warfare methods being used by both.sides.

I notice you didn't mention the ethical issues I already mentioned.


#97    shadowhive

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:29 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 06 March 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

my english is not anywhere near perfect that's why i was asking for explaination is all
and i disagree with you on everything you said
morality in muslim majority countries are often at the top
here in my country in ordinary times a person can go anywhere all night
can they do that in usa ? without getting robbed or killed or raped ?

i can go on in full compare between people's morals in both western and eastern socity
and trust me it will favor the eastern muslims society but now it's not the time perhaps later

I'd not feel safe in a muslim country because I could get imprisoned and executed, which is a hell of a lot worse than here.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#98    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:33 PM

Yes, I would say the European countries are morally in the lead when it comes to dealing with serious criminal offenders.  Most of Asia and the US are still with the Muslims in regularly executing people.  Of course in the other countries they do it in a more civilized way than in most Muslim countries.


#99    Santy

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

I think Frank Merton, Shadowhive and knight of Shadows hold views which have merit. What you are saying, Knight of Shadows, is perfectly comprehensible.
Sharia law had nothing to do with the creation of the holy Koran. It was written by men, some 500 years later, for political expedience. It seems to have been an adaptation by some Islamists, into cult followings. It is not a constant theme by any means. Even at the time, Islamic scholars suggested that the authors were outrageously presuming that The Holy Koran was imperfect, and that God forgot to include, what these men were now, pedalling.

It seems that it is God, and not the opposition who will block any expanding Jehad. The truth of the validity of a Jehad is in the nature of it's own actuality. If certain criteria are not met, then the Jehad will simply run out. The first is that God will strike the right hand of the opposition. The second is that the Islamists will never fatigue.

So, Silver Thong, you should not be over anxious about Islam in general. If millions of people jump into taxis which do not stop, whilst simultaneous getting hm. cramp in the right hand, you should start a new thread about it!

Where Siver Thong's arguments, and many others, I note, take us, is interesting in its own right. People will polarise into groups when stressed, and can modify their thinking quite rapidly. I was in a lecture on culture, prior to departure to the Middle East. The lecturer said "Any atheists",
" put your hand down Santy. You coming back, or What?"

After one of the bombings, which killed Christians and a few Moslems. By Christians, I doubt if such characterisation had been on the victims minds. Anyway, it was proclaimed from some source or other, that the Moslems had been included by mistake. For several weeks after, swathes of the public, here in England, took to wearing, St George armbands. One of the first official insignia of a Medieval English Army. As if to say, " Let there be no more mistakes". I doubt if many of them went to church at all, but the polarisation was spontaneous.

To my mind, the real thrust in the arguments of The Silver Thong, should not be jumbled in with other aspects, where it tends to get diluted. That is in the issue of Nuclear devices.

I do not believe that the rest of the world, nor Islam should tolerate the proliferation of these weapons. That a single Jehadist will behave with the caution which made the Cold War a success, whilst his finger is on a Nuclear trigger, is , given the History, a tall order indeed. There would be no lessons to learn, no second chances, no appeal to any kind of reason. No matter how big or small the hole will be, is of little concern, when we are all in it.

It is only my opinion, but I think it went too far with Nuclear weapons in Pakistan. Granted, they are holding a balance with India, it is true. But what about our tomorrow's? There is a saying, "A puppy is for life, not just for Christmas".

It is in this area that rapid action is essential to our well being, North Korea as well, let's be blunt about it. Dialogue is completely irrelevant, it is too major for that. Time lost cannot be regained, whatever the cost, it is better now than it would be later. A lesson in late intervention, from us, yes, prior to the Second World War. We remember, " Peace in our time", Do you? "We were not all wrong", I remember that too. Do you?

The Israeli's are upset about the inaction. Who can blame them? With the mass murders of the Second World War, not so long ago. As I recall an account, Naked Jews were screaming out to the world, for guns, in Warsaw, before they were wiped out. To shame which persists to this day, nobody lifted a finger.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if Americans showed Mr Obama the footage and photographs, which I saw, of the queue of Jews lining up for their chance and turn, to own a single handgun for a minute or two, in their stand against Nazis in Warsaw. The gun passed from dead hands, to live ones.

Being sanctimonious and copying M.L.King, does not alter anything. Sometimes, you simply must get your nose to the grindstone. For the future of everyone. That is not to say he doesn't have great qualities. I think he does. His heart is in the right place.

Atheists, Oh yes, I know. They are the ones who are led by that guy who got fed up with nailing frogs to pieces of chipboard. He thinks he has reasoned discussions on religion. Well he does not. He does not understand the very notion of belief.  What he is doing, is simply making a living out of it. Perhaps he needs to read "Battle for the Mind" by William Sargent, ask God to stop slapping his cheeks, and get back to cutting up dead frogs. Which I think was much more suitable for him.






#100    ambelamba

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:16 PM

What really makes me curious is what kind of entity Muhammad (COBADSB) actually met. Certainly not the angel Gabriel.

They came with a Bible and their religion. stole our land, crushed our spirit, and now they tell us we should be thankful to the Lord for being saved.

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#101    freetoroam

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:23 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 06 March 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

well thanks for clearing it out
morality is middle eastern countries are way better
just look at crime rates and compare .. case closed
This is great news, you have convinced me to go there for my hols. I am packing my bikini, and looking forwards to drinking a vodka and coke with ice and having bacon sandwiches for breakfast. Oh and will take my dog with me.
Do you know of any deals in Syria or Egypt at the moment?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#102    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:24 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 06 March 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

well thanks for clearing it out
morality is middle eastern countries are way better
just look at crime rates and compare .. case closed
mmm, tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime. I suppose it does cut down on crime rates, or least on re-offending, if one no longer has a hand, or in some cases, perhaps, a Head.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#103    Setton

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:58 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 06 March 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

well thanks for clearing it out
morality is middle eastern countries are way better
just look at crime rates and compare .. case closed

No problem.

I don't feel like I know enough outside of the media to really contribute to this but, just to play devil's advocate, couldn't the low crime rates be due to fear of harsh punishments rather than actually better morals? Or just lack of reporting incidents?

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#104    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:44 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 06 March 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

This is great news, you have convinced me to go there for my hols. I am packing my bikini, and looking forwards to drinking a vodka and coke with ice and having bacon sandwiches for breakfast. Oh and will take my dog with me.
Do you know of any deals in Syria or Egypt at the moment?
don't mean to sound sarcastic but you do know most of middle eastern countries got beaches with girls in bikini do you ?
and nearly every single " muslim " house in countrysides villages have dogs too
again you try to start debate with really silly stuff that are common knowledge
perhaps before you try to make these notes you need to do your homework about the area no ?
and yes am well aware of situation in egypt .. just like france after their revolution there will be chaos
no country recover from 40 years of rule of one person and magically set straight in one go
now about syria .. i am in syria and you know what ?
it's the non-muslims killing muslims .. happy now ?
or is it also our fault " muslim " faults we're being killed ?

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#105    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostSetton, on 06 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

No problem.

I don't feel like I know enough outside of the media to really contribute to this but, just to play devil's advocate, couldn't the low crime rates be due to fear of harsh punishments rather than actually better morals? Or just lack of reporting incidents?
eaither ways you look at society of very low crime rate and that tells you something about morals doesn't ?
over here the police cars " in the past " shoud be put in muesem that's how old are they
and yet people were safe at night anywhere

i know people from europe and usa and people make random comments about how islam treat women
hell i know people " women " being abused .. attacked .. hit by men in street
you know if a random guy beat a woman in street in muslim country what will happen to him ?
fathers abusing kids and daughters and the like in western countries which " rarely " occur here
it's quite common in the west
doesn't all of this tells you some thing about the country morality
if we were to compare in actions of individuals in both society
the result would show middle eastern countries are far ahead that western ones

but again mostly all of people posting here .. NEVER been in middle eastern countries
but their dislike for islam cause them to randomly oppose it
and the problem is even when they're faced with facts they won't see reason
it's called denial in my opinion but that's just me

i met some tourists in my country back in the past
one of them told me " while we were eating in resturant " after he came back from bathroom
i asked him what do you think is the country safe compared to " usa " which he originally was from
he said if i was in usa if i want to go to bathroom i wouldn't leave my book on the table like i did
coz it won't be there when i come back

believe it or not that's up to you and guys here
but i felt like sharing it

so i think it's fair to say that people should at least " be " in a country in middle east before they go on all trigger happy with critisim
freetoroam is fine example of lack of knowledge in middle east
packing her bikini and coming here thinking some people with big beards going to kill her for it
not knowing lot of people actually wear bikini in beaches in middle east
or making comment about her dog thinking dogs are killed on sight or something
maybe i should post pic of my previous dog ? :D

come on all am asking is some logic sense and reason that's not much is it ?

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great





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