Ayurveda

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Hello UMers!

Recently I met one Indian. He was cca 30 y.o. Later I realize that he is Ayurveda doctor. He put his hands on my coworker hand and by few seconds he told him what he was suffering from. We were amazed. We ask him how he know it and he explaind us that Puls told him beside that he observe your eyes,breathing and how you talk. Ayurveda originate from India, Vedic texts, and it is their traditional medicine.

It is called alternative medicine and that western researchers doubt in it especially because of usage of metals as cures. Lead and mercury is also used among others. I immidiately connected with Chinese and Indian alchemy. But metals are used in small amounts. Plants are used more often beside animal parts such as bones.Ayurveda used surgery but as Ayu doc explain it, you have to eat well, to mentain good hygiene,to sleep well,to have good digestion and to do yoga and you will be healthy. And by some their massage you will even rejuvenate yourself.

Ayurveda is still used in India. There are ayurveda clinic around the world. As I read that there are over 100 college for becoming Ayurveda doctor in India and that one is placed in London.

Opponents of Ayurveda stress out heavy metals in Ayurveda cures but Ayu doctors claim that , quote (from wiki:)

„believe that the toxicity of these materials is reduced through purification processes such as samskaras or shodhanas .“

As it wiki says it was practiced in Gupta empire and in Sicily. They preformed rhinoplasty.

From wiki:

Ayurveda traces its origins to the Vedas, Atharvaveda in particular, and is connected to Hindu religion. (1500BC)Atharvaveda (one of the four most ancient books of Indian knowledge, wisdom and culture) contains 114 hymns or formulations for the treatment of diseases. Ayurveda originated in and developed from these hymns. In this sense, ayurveda is considered by some to have divine origin. Indian medicine has a long history, and is one of the oldest organised systems of medicine.

The Chinese pilgrim Fa Hsien (ca. 337–422 AD) wrote about the health care system of the Gupta empire (320–550) and described the institutional approach of Indian medicine, also visible in the works of Charaka, who mentions a clinic and how it should be equipped.[28] Madhava (fl. 700), Sarngadhara (fl. 1300), and Bhavamisra (fl. 1500) compiled works on Indian medicine.[25] The medical works of both Sushruta and Charaka were translated into the Arabic language during the Abbasid Caliphate (ca. 750).[29] These Arabic works made their way into Europe via intermediaries.[29] In Italy, the Branca family of Sicily and Gaspare Tagliacozzi (Bologna) became familiar with the techniques of Sushruta.

British physicians traveled to India to see rhinoplasty being performed by native methods. Reports on Indian rhinoplasty were published in the Gentleman's Magazine in 1794.Joseph Constantine Carpue spent 20 years in India studying local plastic surgery methods.Carpue was able to perform the first major surgery in the western world in 1815.

Here is video from youtube about Ayu.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4DCYjQiteY[/media]

Dhanvantari (Sanskrit: धन्वन्तरि) is an Avatar of Vishnu from the Hindu tradition. He appears in the Vedas and Puranas as the physician of the gods (devas), and the god of Ayurvedic medicine.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Dhanvantari

Anyway, I wish to hear your thoughts, maybe expiriences, maybe some interesting history info.

Thanks in advance.

Edited September 16, 2012 by the L

[The_Spartan]

In modern day india, Ayurveda is practised mainly in the southern most state of kerala, more than nay other state in india.

In case you folks want to know more about Ayurvedic treatment or want to undergo Ayurvedic treatment, the best place to go is Kottakal Arya Vaidya Sala, at Kottakal in Kerala, India.

Kottakkal Arya Vaidya Sala

I had undergone a detox program (oh no not drug detox, but a program to remove the toxins and all negative sources in my body) as per ayurveda at kottakal.

And also a wonderful massage.

[Harsh86_Patel]

Ayurveda has a hollistic approach to health and involves physical,mental and emotional elements and not only oral medication.It states that each individual has a different body make up susceptible to different 'doshas'.Treatment and prescription differs from individual to individual even if it is for the same disease or discomfort,unlike western medicine. A lot of ayurvedic medicine are presently being patented in western countries and a lot are also being researched.

[Simbi Laveau]

There are ayurvedic practitioners in the USA. I did seminar with one in Manhattan .She is a white woman that studied in India .She is also a follower of AMMA.

I like their fingernail diagnosis . I use it sometimes,to key in on organ dysfunction .

She shared her office with an acupuncturist,and they referred patients to one another .

There is also Tibetan medicine . It's similar to ayurveda. They use what is called the Medicine Wheel .

[The Gremlin]

I had an Ayurveda day-spa once in Sri Lanka, the full works......lovely.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

...

Kerala - home of modern math.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

There are ayurvedic practitioners in the USA. I did seminar with one in Manhattan .She is a white woman that studied in India .She is also a follower of AMMA.

I like their fingernail diagnosis . I use it sometimes,to key in on organ dysfunction .

She shared her office with an acupuncturist,and they referred patients to one another .

There is also Tibetan medicine . It's similar to ayurveda. They use what is called the Medicine Wheel .

Whats fingernail diagnosis? How does it work?

Can you explain medicine wheel concept?

[Simbi Laveau]

Whats fingernail diagnosis? How does it work?

Can you explain medicine wheel concept?

In ayurveda ,there are three principle body types . Each type has certain traits,and predispositions .

Nail diagnosis ,is,to a degree,used in western medicine.

Certain nail discolorations,or abnormal growths,mean things.

http://www.holistic-online.com/ayurveda/ayv-diag-nail.htm

This is a very simplified explanation ,but I basically use their nail bed,and ridge growth factors,into consideration ,when I look at a patient. Verticle ridges ,or deep cracks ,in the nail,are very important. Their placement on the nailbed,is also a factor .

Certain areas of the nail,indicate different organs or systems.

I use it more as a confirmation,to what I have deduced using Chinese diagnosis,and western medical history .

Chinese medicine also uses how the skin looks,smells,colors and tones to the face.

So its all very informative ,in coming to a conclusion ,about the patients disharmonies.

The tibetan medicine wheel is very involved.

I had a cursory lecture in it,from the 17th Karmapa ,himself .

He touched on how thwy diagnose ,and use herbs.

It reminded me more of chinese medicine,than ayurvedic medicine.

http://www.aruratibetanmedicine.com/CausativeFactors.asp

Here is an outline of their foundations . There is a place to learn it,in the USA. I was very interested ,but didn't get to do it.

This is the best picture of the wheel I can find.

It usually has the eight auspicious symbols on it,and there are inner and outer parts of the wheel.

He didnt go enough into detail,for me to explain it fully .

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/paintings/wheel-of-life-tibetan-srid-pahi-hkhor-lo-wheel-of-transmigration-TQ25/

Edited September 17, 2012 by Simbi Laveau

[Harte]

As in any folk medicine tradition, there is plenty that works in Ayurvedic Medicine, as well as plenty of hooey.

The best practitioners don't tie themselves completely to tradition.

IIRC, Ayurvedic medicine was one of the earliest to diagnose and treat Diabetes, a disease I suffer from myself.

The hooey part comes in here - they thought they could cure it with treatment, and they thought one contracted diabetes from eating "too much fish and curds."

Harte

[Harsh86_Patel]

As in any folk medicine tradition, there is plenty that works in Ayurvedic Medicine, as well as plenty of hooey.

The best practitioners don't tie themselves completely to tradition.

IIRC, Ayurvedic medicine was one of the earliest to diagnose and treat Diabetes, a disease I suffer from myself.

The hooey part comes in here - they thought they could cure it with treatment, and they thought one contracted diabetes from eating "too much fish and curds."

Harte

Ayurveda couldn't have traditionally recommended eating fish as it stems from a vegetarian practice (using fish oils for medication may be possible).But if you want to evaluate how eating fish can help diabetics then it could be that when you are eating a lot of fish,you are not eating a lot of carbs and sugars and hence it helps in regulating high sugar levels.All gain doesn't have to be direct. Edited September 18, 2012 by Harsh86_Patel

[Harsh86_Patel]

Since part of the posts here highlight advances made by ancient Indians(including ayurveda),i would like to list a few:

1.Arabic numerals are actually indian numerals including invention of zero.

2.Plastic surgery (rhinoplasty)

3.Extraction of Zinc

4.Rust proof iron/stell amalgamates

5.Yoga

And these and many other advances all revolved around their relegious beliefs,all ancient indian scientists were without exception saints ('rishis').They came across this knowledge by staying in forests and isolated from materialistic persuits and meditation.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

1.Arabic numerals are actually indian numerals including invention of zero.

2.Plastic surgery (rhinoplasty)

3.Extraction of Zinc

4.Rust proof iron/stell amalgamates

5.Yoga

1.True

2.I guess

3. Why is this important?

4.Ture

5. Who doesnt know that?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

As in any folk medicine tradition, there is plenty that works in Ayurvedic Medicine, as well as plenty of hooey.

The best practitioners don't tie themselves completely to tradition.

IIRC, Ayurvedic medicine was one of the earliest to diagnose and treat Diabetes, a disease I suffer from myself.

The hooey part comes in here - they thought they could cure it with treatment, and they thought one contracted diabetes from eating "too much fish and curds."

Harte

Even diagnosing it its amazing achivement.

Sorry to hear about your disease. I hope you are doing well.

Edited September 18, 2012 by the L

[Harte]

Ayurveda couldn't have traditionally recommended eating fish as it stems from a vegetarian practice (using fish oils for medication may be possible).But if you want to evaluate how eating fish can help diabetics then it could be that when you are eating a lot of fish,you are not eating a lot of carbs and sugars and hence it helps in regulating high sugar levels.All gain doesn't have to be direct.

If you read what I posted, instead of deciding on your own what I may have said, you'll see that I in no way indicated that eating fish was thought to treat diabetes.

In fact, what I said was that eating fish was thought to cause diabetes.

Now, will I have to quote the passage in question to you, or will you read what I actually just wrote?

Harte

[The_Spartan]

Since part of the posts here highlight advances made by ancient Indians(including ayurveda),i would like to list a few:

1.Arabic numerals are actually indian numerals including invention of zero.

2.Plastic surgery (rhinoplasty)

3.Extraction of Zinc

4.Rust proof iron/stell amalgamates

5.Yoga

And these and many other advances all revolved around their relegious beliefs,all ancient indian scientists were without exception saints ('rishis').They came across this knowledge by staying in forests and isolated from materialistic persuits and meditation.

1.True

2.I guess

3. Why is this important?

4.Ture

5. Who doesnt know that?

to add to what Harsh has written,

Yes, Plastic Surgery did originate in India .

Reconstructive surgery techniques were being carried out in India by 800 BC.^[3] Sushruta, the father of Surgery,^[4] made important contributions to the field of plastic and cataract surgery in 6th century BC.^[4] The medical works of both Sushruta and Charak originally in Sanskrit were translated into Arabic language during the Abbasid Caliphate in 750 AD.^[5] The Arabic translations made their way into Europe via intermediaries.^[5] In Italy the Branca family^[6] of Sicily and Gaspare Tagliacozzi (Bologna) became familiar with the techniques of Sushruta.^[5]

British physicians traveled to India to see rhinoplasties being performed by native methods.^[7] Reports on Indian rhinoplasty performed by a Kumhar vaidya were published in the Gentleman's Magazine by 1794.^[7] Joseph Constantine Carpue spent 20 years in India studying local plastic surgery methods.^[7] Carpue was able to perform the first major surgery in the Western world by 1815.^[8] Instruments described in the Sushruta Samhita were further modified in the Western world.^[8]

Source

Regarding the extraction of Zinc, What Harsh meant was that The earliest firm evidence for the production of metallic zinc is from India.

The earliest firm evidence for the production of metallic zinc is from India. Of the metals used in antiquity zinc is one of the most difficult to smelt since zinc volatalises at about the same temperature of around 1000^oC that is needed to smelt zinc ore. As a result it would form as a vapour in the furnace which would immediately get reoxidised and hence lost. Hence metallic zinc is seldom reported in antiquity. However in India there is unique evidence for the extensive and semi-industrial production of metallic zinc at the Zawar area of Rajasthan. An ingenious method was devised of downward distillation of the zinc vapour formed after smelting zinc ore using specifically designed retorts with condensers and furnaces, so that the smelted zinc vapour could be drastically cooled down to get a melt that could solidify to zinc metal. The Rasaratnakara, a text ascribed to the great Indian scientist Nagarjuna, of the early Christian era describes this method of production of zinc.

Source

In ancient India the production of zinc metal was very common. Many mine sites of Zawar Mines, near Udaipur, Rajasthan;-Zawarmaala were active even during 1300-

1000 BC. There are references of medicinal uses of zinc in the Charaka Samhita (300 BC). The Rasaratna Samuccaya (800 AD) explains the existence of two types of ores

for zinc metal, one of which is ideal for metal extraction while the other is used for medicinal purpose.

Source

Other than these, my favoirite stuff on metallurgy is the discovery of Wootz Steel from which Damascus steel was made. Some scientists who did anlaysis on swords made from Damascus Steel have reported to have found nanowires and carbon ananotubes in the metal.

[Harte]

Even diagnosing it its amazing achivement.

I agree.

Sorry to hear about your disease. I hope you are doing well.

Completely under control, thanks for asking. It's type 2, so I deserve most of the blame for contracting it.

But I didn't get by eating too much fish and curds.

No doubt it was too much BBQ ribs and shoulders and not enough fiber. I got pretty good at smoking on my grill.

Harte

[Big Bad Voodoo]

In ayurveda ,there are three principle body types . Each type has certain traits,and predispositions .

Nail diagnosis ,is,to a degree,used in western medicine.

Certain nail discolorations,or abnormal growths,mean things.

http://www.holistic-...v-diag-nail.htm

This is a very simplified explanation ,but I basically use their nail bed,and ridge growth factors,into consideration ,when I look at a patient. Verticle ridges ,or deep cracks ,in the nail,are very important. Their placement on the nailbed,is also a factor .

Certain areas of the nail,indicate different organs or systems.

I use it more as a confirmation,to what I have deduced using Chinese diagnosis,and western medical history .

Chinese medicine also uses how the skin looks,smells,colors and tones to the face.

So its all very informative ,in coming to a conclusion ,about the patients disharmonies.

The tibetan medicine wheel is very involved.

I had a cursory lecture in it,from the 17th Karmapa ,himself .

He touched on how thwy diagnose ,and use herbs.

It reminded me more of chinese medicine,than ayurvedic medicine.

http://www.aruratibe...tiveFactors.asp

Here is an outline of their foundations . There is a place to learn it,in the USA. I was very interested ,but didn't get to do it.

This is the best picture of the wheel I can find.

It usually has the eight auspicious symbols on it,and there are inner and outer parts of the wheel.

He didnt go enough into detail,for me to explain it fully .

http://www.exoticind...migration-TQ25/

http://www.holistic-online.com/ayurveda/ayv-diag-nail.htm

This is great link. Thank a lot. As always you provide great info.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

...

Other than these, my favoirite stuff on metallurgy is the discovery of Wootz Steel from which Damascus steel was made. Some scientists who did anlaysis on swords made from Damascus Steel have reported to have found nanowires and carbon ananotubes in the metal.

do we understand how they achive to do that?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

No doubt it was too much BBQ ribs and shoulders and not enough fiber. I got pretty good at smoking on my grill.

Harte

I drink Fiber every morning as prevention of many disease. Same as Omega 3 and probiotics.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

The basic premise of Ayurveda is that the entire cosmos or universe is part of one singular absolute. Everything that exists in the vast external universe (macrocosm), also appears in the internal cosmos of the human body (microcosm). The human body consisting of 50-100 million cells, when healthy, is in harmony, self-perpetuating and self-correcting just as the universe is. The ancient Ayurveda text, Charaka, says, "Man is the epitome of the universe. Within man, there is as much diversity as in the world outside. Similarly, the outside world is as diverse as human beings themselves." In other words, all human beings are a living microcosm of the universe and the universe is a living macrocosm of the human beings.

I know I already said Simbi, but that site is realy great sum of Ayu.

As I remember Greeks argued that what in in marcocosmos that is in microcosmos. Im mean we are children of stars. We are made of star stuff as Sagan said. And its true. We are carbon beings. Carbon is produced in Stars. Imagine...we are universe that become. We are universe consciousness. Matter become live and aware.

We are in sense universe that re discover itself.

[Abramelin]

The whole thing about Ayur Veda is the attention a patient gets, the physical comfort, the candle light, people smearing oil over your body.... it's a 'feel happy' thing.

You won't get all that from a modern western practitioner, lol.

I could advise Thai massage.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

The whole thing about Ayur Veda is the attention a patient gets, the physical comfort, the candle light, people smearing oil over your body.... it's a 'feel happy' thing.

You won't get all that from a modern western practitioner, lol.

Envoirment is one of basis for health according to Ayurveda so candle can do only good. It wasnt just Ayu that theach that....Geomancy, Feng Shui, Vastu...Even some todays architects agrees that Architecture isnt just design.

By making urban plans we are not just doing 3d art. We shape our envoirment which in the end shape us as Darwin claimed-

Once we two spoke about biodynamic farming. We spoke about Rudolf Steiner and his anthroposophy and anthroposophical medicine.

Im 100% supporter of anthroposophical medicine.

People are not machines.

Edited September 24, 2012 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Most of todays psychiatrists would say that mental and physichal health are interconnected.

[Harsh86_Patel]

http://www.halexandria.org/dward470.htm

ORME-orbitarilly rearranged monoatomic elements.

Soma of the Hindus

Manna of the Jewish

Ambrosia of the Greeks

The food of the GODS

Suspected secret to long life.

Most of todays psychiatrists would say that mental and physichal health are interconnected.

They would be out of Jobs otherwise.

[Harsh86_Patel]

1.True

2.I guess

3. Why is this important?

4.Ture

5. Who doesnt know that?

A post i made about ORME is related to knowledge of metals.