142 replies to this topic

[Antilles]

Lookitisoneofthosepeople, on 08 June 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Keep in mind that competition is but one strategy at winning. Altruism and cooperation are also strategies which can be employed and rather well judging by the success of our species. Evolution itself favors cooperation over competition. Ironic considering the concept of social darwinism has been inline with your posts Antilles. Keep in mind social darwinism was en vogue during the late 1800s but not so much now in the 21st century.

Apt av.

[Beany]

I had a child that was bullied. Because of it she didn't want to go to school, didn't learn much when she was there, and was miserable. All the strategies we came up with failed, so I finally spoke to the teacher & principal. The bullying ended immediately and I had a much happier child. Children don't have the capacity to deal effectively with these kinds of issues, because it's a complicated problem that involves 3 parties: whoever has authority, the bullier, and the victim. To expect a child to tolerate the situation is unreasonable. If it's a problem, fix it. Then everyone has an opportunity to learn. What I taught my child is not to tolerate emotional abuse, that I would stand behind her 100%, and there's value in using one's voice.

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

Beany, on 08 June 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

I had a child that was bullied. Because of it she didn't want to go to school, didn't learn much when she was there, and was miserable. All the strategies we came up with failed, so I finally spoke to the teacher & principal. The bullying ended immediately and I had a much happier child. Children don't have the capacity to deal effectively with these kinds of issues, because it's a complicated problem that involves 3 parties: whoever has authority, the bullier, and the victim. To expect a child to tolerate the situation is unreasonable. If it's a problem, fix it. Then everyone has an opportunity to learn. What I taught my child is not to tolerate emotional abuse, that I would stand behind her 100%, and there's value in using one's voice.

I must be an anomaly then. I understand things can go to far and if the child wasn't given the tools to mentally cope with other people and their chosen actions then I see that could end up being a problem. I'm thankful my parents gave/instilled in me the tools to understand, cope, and rise above. A gift ill cherish. And it was through love and teaching me each person is different and you never know their story so their actions to others while unjustifiable may still be acknowledged and understood. I just got lucky I guess.

[Mr Right Wing]

Beany, on 08 June 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

I had a child that was bullied. Because of it she didn't want to go to school, didn't learn much when she was there, and was miserable. All the strategies we came up with failed, so I finally spoke to the teacher & principal. The bullying ended immediately and I had a much happier child. Children don't have the capacity to deal effectively with these kinds of issues, because it's a complicated problem that involves 3 parties: whoever has authority, the bullier, and the victim. To expect a child to tolerate the situation is unreasonable. If it's a problem, fix it. Then everyone has an opportunity to learn. What I taught my child is not to tolerate emotional abuse, that I would stand behind her 100%, and there's value in using one's voice.

When someone has a child they often have ideas about how they should turn out in life. As such the parent tries to mould their kid into a polite, honest, well mannered, decent, role model citizen while being ignorant of the damage that it does to the child. We dont live in a utopia so its import that children are given the skills needed to deal with real people not idealic ones. Teaching kids that violance is wrong may stop them getting a criminal record later in life but it will also stop them kicking several shades out of someone trying to bully them. Teaching kids that being abusive is unacceptable may allow them to have a better marriage when older but again it stops them dealing with a bully.

Kids should be taught to respect those worthy of respect but that its free game with everyone else.

For the poster that said bullies usually become managers -

At a job interview check to see if the management at the business are qualified and if theres a Human Resources Department. If the answers are no then dont take the job. Professionally run businesses dont promote known bullies into management because they increase the staff turnover and demotivate people they come into contact with. Both are extremely damaging to a company.

A professionally run business promotes dominant people who have a decent mixture of management and leadership skills. Dominant means get yourself involved, contribute ideas during meetings, work yourself into the position where you act as a leader for the team and dont take no bull off anyone.

Management skills are planning (1), organising (2), commanding (3), controlling (4) and coordinating (5) -
1 - Plan each day out in a diary and let your bosses know you do this.
2 - Using your diary approach the manager to organise help for big jobs.
3 - When you have your help for a big job give instructions to your helping colleaques (dont abuse your position) and let your boss see you doing it.
4 - Keep tabs on the progress of the job offering extra instructions as needed.
5 - Keep your teams efforts coordinated together to complete the job so they dont start doing their own thing.

Leadership is about change. Offer ideas to solve your managers problems.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 08 June 2012 - 11:59 PM.

[Leave Britney alone!]

Aus Der Box Skeptisch, on 08 June 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

I must be an anomaly then. I understand things can go to far and if the child wasn't given the tools to mentally cope with other people and their chosen actions then I see that could end up being a problem. I'm thankful my parents gave/instilled in me the tools to understand, cope, and rise above. A gift ill cherish. And it was through love and teaching me each person is different and you never know their story so their actions to others while unjustifiable may still be acknowledged and understood. I just got lucky I guess.

You seem like an anomaly but Beany's child seems to be equally lucky with such a wonderful parent who is not only willing to intervene but who had the confidence of their child to even tell them they were being bullied. Too often children suffer in silence.

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

Lookitisoneofthosepeople, on 09 June 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

You seem like an anomaly but Beany's child seems to be equally lucky with such a wonderful parent who is not only willing to intervene but who had the confidence of their child to even tell them they were being bullied. Too often children suffer in silence.

No doubt.

[FollowTheLights]

While you are in a school environment, basically forced to go to whatever school is in your district, it can be hard to cope.  As adults we can change jobs, file complaints, etc.  I think a lot of teachers are like most people, they try to avoid conflict.  With the litigious nature of U.S. society these days teachers can't really do much of anything in the way of disciplining children.  So, the most mentally and emotionally deficient tend to rule.  Group think can be the path of least resistance in a lot of cases.

I think what the OP did was understandable, and forgivable.  I think forgiveness is a great thing, but some people I don't consider deserving of my forgiveness personally.  If they have an opinion of others as if they can push them around, and think nothing of them, why should anyone forgive them?  I think it is more appropriate to make it clear that they barely qualify as human, and let them try to forgive themselves.  If they can manage to stay out of prison, good for them I guess.  

To bullies, not necessarily Type A individuals, this documentary will probably reinforce their ideas of superiority, but for me it reinforces the ideas of people like Abraham Maslow, and shows how many problems mindless bullying causes.  

Edited by FollowTheLights, 09 June 2012 - 05:43 PM.

[thewatchman7]

i copped a lot of flak in school, mostly for being the foreigner.
i was subjected to a little physical and mental bullying but i gave it right back, and in a weird way it think it made me much stonger.
i later became friends with a few of the guys and i think they appreciated my strength in standing up to them, but it left me with a humbleness that i still have today, an understanding of the guys who were young kids trying to estabolish dominance and did the bullying, and most of all, an empathy for those who have suffered at the hands of others.

so i say thank you to those who gave me a hard time, it gave me a thick skin, and a better understanding of the world around me.

[Beany]

My kids rose above a lot. They were from a single-parent household, their dad died when they were 6 and under, I worked full time to pay the bills, they spent a lot of time with babysitters. But every now & then they ran into problems that they weren't able to solve on their own. When that happened, they did bring it to me. And we talked about it. We talked about the uses & abuses of power, we talked about the importance of self-confidence, about concepts of right & wrong, about having an ethical code, and we talked about the fact that sometimes we all run into problems that we can't solve on our own, and that there should be no shame or guilt in asking for help. My daughter begged me not to speak to her teacher or the principal, wept at the thought of it, but I was the adult who had a greater capacity of understanding & experience than she did, and therefore greater problem-solving skills. Kids learn from experience, in this case, I changed the experience for her by providing guidance. And now that she's an adult, she's one tough cookie!

[booNyzarC]

FollowTheLights, on 09 June 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

This was a very interesting video, thanks for sharing it.

[Leave Britney alone!]

Beany, on 09 June 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

My kids rose above a lot. They were from a single-parent household, their dad died when they were 6 and under, I worked full time to pay the bills, they spent a lot of time with babysitters. But every now & then they ran into problems that they weren't able to solve on their own. When that happened, they did bring it to me. And we talked about it. We talked about the uses & abuses of power, we talked about the importance of self-confidence, about concepts of right & wrong, about having an ethical code, and we talked about the fact that sometimes we all run into problems that we can't solve on our own, and that there should be no shame or guilt in asking for help. My daughter begged me not to speak to her teacher or the principal, wept at the thought of it, but I was the adult who had a greater capacity of understanding & experience than she did, and therefore greater problem-solving skills. Kids learn from experience, in this case, I changed the experience for her by providing guidance. And now that she's an adult, she's one tough cookie!

Bullying has the effect of ostracizing the victim. To befriend the victims carries a weight of its own. It would be like talking to someone banished from the city in the olden days.

The perfect remedy is of course the strong bond a child can have with his parents. In turn this bond will lead to an enhanced sense of belonging, not just to a family, but to a community, nation and globe. The same sense of belonging and place that is stripped by bullying can be restored if the child has other connections that can and do help. You made the right choice.

[Beany]

Lookitisoneofthosepeople, on 09 June 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Bullying has the effect of ostracizing the victim. To befriend the victims carries a weight of its own. It would be like talking to someone banished from the city in the olden days.

The perfect remedy is of course the strong bond a child can have with his parents. In turn this bond will lead to an enhanced sense of belonging, not just to a family, but to a community, nation and globe. The same sense of belonging and place that is stripped by bullying can be restored if the child has other connections that can and do help. You made the right choice.

Thanks for the kind words. My kids & I still have extremely strong bonds, and we have each others backs. Pick on one of us and you'll have to take on the whole crew.

[Beany]

What I really don't get it why adults stand aside and let bullying happen. They would probably intervene is they saw a big bully beating up a kid, but for some reason, emotional & verbal abuse is tolerated. And what are the lessons learned from that? Few of them good.  Standing by and letting it happen is like teaching a kid to swim by throwing them in the deep water. Some may learn to swim right away, others will flounder, and some will sink right to the bottom. And it's a brutal method, as opposed to swim lessons. And shouldn't the focus be on rehabilitating the bully instead of expecting a kid to stand up to them when every cell in their body screams  RUUUUNNN?

[Leave Britney alone!]

I'm not a fan of the "kids will be kids" mentality which is the same as "men will be men" or any other common nonsense phrase. Kids will learn through example and are only mirroring the power structures they see in their own societies, in their own homes for example as a start. Adults set the tone.

[_Only]

I also remember something like this that I did when I was in junior high that bothers me today. There was a kid (I'll call him Buddy) that sat in front of me and my friend in class, and we would sometimes poke fun at his expense. Pushing his chair or joking about him, just being insensitive and annoying at his expense. It wasn't such bad things said or done; we weren't trying to be malicious, just messing around. I see now, though, that it really bothered him a lot. We thought it was hilarious at the time.

I know the feeling of being bothered like that from a pair of bullies that would do the same to me. Though those that did it to me were definitely attempting to be malicious and were not just passing the time, the way I and Buddy felt was one and the same. But at the time I was so immature and didn't make this connection, and didn't really think about how he felt. It was only much later that I remembered the way he would act, and see the parallels to how I would act in the same scenario, sitting in his position. This was a very quiet student, and I see a lot of myself today in him. I feel so bad for treating him the way I did.

What was awesome, though, is that I later had the chance to become a good, close friend of this kid, in our last year of high school on. A mutual friend of ours ending up unintentionally bringing us together as acquaintances, and we 3 became a pack of buddies who would do everything together for that last half of the high school year, and later would still be friends for a good while. He was still a really different kind of guy, very quiet and reserved, and very socially awkward. We all would know this, but that was just Buddy. We all had our personas; he was the "straight" kid (as far as illegal recreational activities we would partake in), the one we could count on to be the reasonable one. But us being friends and eventually growing to a bigger pack of friends let Buddy join new situations he normally wouldn't be in, and make new friends he normally wouldn't. I miss the times we would spend together being bored, dumb teenagers after high school, finding things to do. I remember a great time around the 4th of July that we all spent the night at his house while his family was gone, and even then I remember thinking how cool it was that he got to experience something like that, all of his friends hanging at his house overnight.

Anyway, sorry to ramble, but you just brought that back to the front of my mind, and it's a bittersweet feeling. It's memories of cruelty, but also good friendship. I'd like to think that our later friendship saved what happened in the past, but I just don't know how it affected him. I just know he acted forever like he did in that class as long as I knew him after...

He ended up going off to join the Marines a long time ago. I hope he's doing well now. It would be so cool to see him again.

So yeah, cruelty is a tough thing to shake no matter how many years later, even for both ends of the stick.