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13 Spills. 30 Days. Nearly 1.2 Million Toxic


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#1    jugoso

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:25 PM

http://tcktcktck.org...n-30-days/50100

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#2    Child of Bast

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:38 PM

Time to live like the Jetsons.

'A phantom,' said my Uncle Mycroft, who had just materialised, 'is essentially a heteromorphic wave pattern that gains solidity when the apparition converts thermal energy from the surroundings to visible light. It's a fascinating process and I'm amazed no one has thought of harnessing it - a holographic TV that could operate from the heat given off by an average-size guinea pig.' ~ First Among Sequels, Jasper Fforde

#3    Ashotep

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:45 PM

1,185,000 gallons that's a lot.


#4    Rafterman

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:55 PM

View PostHilander, on 18 April 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

1,185,000 gallons that's a lot.

Not really when you compare it to the scope of the worldwide oil industry.

So I'm assuming you guys have all sold your cars, thrown out all of your plastics, make up, pharmaceuticals, electronics, and completely taken your home off of the grid?

Here's a block of wood - whittle yourself an IPad.

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#5    jugoso

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:23 PM

View PostRafterman, on 20 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Not really when you compare it to the scope of the worldwide oil industry.

So I'm assuming you guys have all sold your cars, thrown out all of your plastics, make up, pharmaceuticals, electronics, and completely taken your home off of the grid?

Here's a block of wood - whittle yourself an IPad.

Tell that to the people in Arkansas. The spilling of1,185,000 gallons in one month really wreaks a lot of destruction of our ecosystem. I think many of these spills can be avoided with better regulations in place and better regulations ensuring pipelines don´t run close to residential neighbourhoods. I think your attitude is paramount to the problem. And I do try to live as ecologically-friendly as possible. Honestly Raftermanan , are you suggesting that if I have issues with oil industry safety standards that the only thing I option I have is to live "off the grid"? How about enforcing better safety standards and stricter control and regulation. Sure, it will cost big oil a few extra bucks but i have a sneaking suspicion they could affoed it. Perhaps if more ecologically-friendly types of energy were more readily available, we could all burn a lot less oil. Wonder why in this day and age of technology, we are still so dependent on oil? Hmmm??

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#6    Ashotep

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:05 AM

View PostRafterman, on 20 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Not really when you compare it to the scope of the worldwide oil industry.

So I'm assuming you guys have all sold your cars, thrown out all of your plastics, make up, pharmaceuticals, electronics, and completely taken your home off of the grid?

Here's a block of wood - whittle yourself an IPad.
No I haven't sold my care or any of the other things you have suggested but I do try to limit my driving to when I have to or don't keep my home too warm in winter or too cool in summer.  However I'm not going to just give up on cleaner energy and say oh well just use as much as I want to and don't be concerned about the environment.


#7    Rafterman

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:02 PM

View Postjugoso, on 20 April 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Tell that to the people in Arkansas. The spilling of1,185,000 gallons in one month really wreaks a lot of destruction of our ecosystem. I think many of these spills can be avoided with better regulations in place and better regulations ensuring pipelines don´t run close to residential neighbourhoods. I think your attitude is paramount to the problem. And I do try to live as ecologically-friendly as possible. Honestly Raftermanan , are you suggesting that if I have issues with oil industry safety standards that the only thing I option I have is to live "off the grid"? How about enforcing better safety standards and stricter control and regulation. Sure, it will cost big oil a few extra bucks but i have a sneaking suspicion they could affoed it. Perhaps if more ecologically-friendly types of energy were more readily available, we could all burn a lot less oil. Wonder why in this day and age of technology, we are still so dependent on oil? Hmmm??

Actually, the spilling of 1,185,000 gallons in one month is not even noticed in our ecosystem.  As far as the people of Arkansas are concerned, this spill will be cleaned up just like all of them have been and they won't even know it happened.  And how do you know that this accident had anything to do with lax safety standards and oversight?  Millions of gallons of oil and other liquids move through our pipeline system every single day.  Obviously if there were widespread safety and regulatory issues, there would be a lot more problems.  Wouldn't you agree?

And there are more ecologically-friendly types of energy available, the problem is they don't really work that well for large scale applications.  Sure, you can throw a solar panel  or wind turbine on your house and do just fine, but try and provide electricity for the Eastern Seaboard with those methods?  It simply doesn't work.

I was speaking with a physicist just the other day and she claimed that we are probably 2-3 Noble Prize winning discoveries away from being able to fully provide for our energy needs via alternative methods.  So we're probably talking another 50 or so years before that can happen.  So what are we left with?  Yep, oil and natural gas.

Will we be independent of  fossil fuels at some point in the future - sure.  But we're not there yet and to pretend we are and to put all kinds of barriers in the way of fossil fuel production and use is simply silly and frankly nothing but agenda driven politics.

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#8    Rafterman

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:05 PM

View PostHilander, on 21 April 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

No I haven't sold my care or any of the other things you have suggested but I do try to limit my driving to when I have to or don't keep my home too warm in winter or too cool in summer.  However I'm not going to just give up on cleaner energy and say oh well just use as much as I want to and don't be concerned about the environment.

Right, because that's exactly what I said to do......

We have the most energy efficient society ever since we started using the stuff to power our society.  Our cars are the most efficient they've ever been, our appliances, our homes, our office buildings, and even our light bulbs.

Why can't environmentalists understand that fossil fuels are our only real option RIGHT NOW.  We can't just top society and the world economy and wait a few decades for alternative energies to come online.

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#9    AsteroidX

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:38 PM

We also have one of the most destroyed environments with the addition of recent manmade and natural disasters. Wait till Fukushima rads hit the west coast via the Pacific then its gonna grow exponentially.


#10    redhen

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:32 PM

View PostRafterman, on 20 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

So I'm assuming you guys have all sold your cars, thrown out all of your plastics, make up, pharmaceuticals, electronics, and completely taken your home off of the grid?

Here's a block of wood - whittle yourself an IPad.

Perfect example of the tu quoque fallacy. This is not a valid argument. No one is perfect, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to mitigate harm.


#11    jugoso

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostRafterman, on 20 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

So I'm assuming you guys have all sold your cars, thrown out all of your plastics, make up, pharmaceuticals, electronics, and completely taken your home off of the grid?


Ha! So if I have concerns with the way big oil safety practices and ethics my only option is to go and live in a cave somewhere?

View PostRafterman, on 21 April 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:


Actually, the spilling of 1,185,000 gallons in one month is not even noticed in our ecosystem.


Well, I guess if you divide the amount over the total circumference of the earth it may not seem like a lot but unfortunately, that isn´t the way it works


View PostRafterman, on 21 April 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

.  As far as the people of Arkansas are concerned, this spill will be cleaned up just like all of them have

Yikes! That doesn´t bode well for the residents then. Have you checked ExxonMobil´s track record with cleaning up oil spills? It´s not very good. They still haven´t cleaned up completely nor compensated for the Alaska spill. And the court battles to fight those who want compensation in Louisiana are just beginning.



More than 21,000 gallons of crude oil remain, according to a 2007 National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration report. Just scratch the surface of many beaches, and the thick crude oil is evident beneath. True, that's less than 1% of the original 11-million-gallon spill -- but it's enough that the pollution remains toxic to wildlife, even hundreds of miles away from the site of the disaster.


True, roughly $2 billion has been spent on the cleanup effort and Exxon has paid approximately $1 billion in damages. But Exxon hasn't delivered on $92 million claimed by federal and state governments for damages to wildlife, fishermen and others. And in 2008, the Supreme Court struck down a punitive damages case that would have paid out $2.5 billion to fishermen and others whose livelihoods and lives were irrevocably damaged by the spill. The award was reduced by about 20% on a 5-3 vote that came after the recusal of Justice Samuel Alito, a Bush appointee who owns an estimated $100,000-$250,000 in Exxon stock. Worse, many of the victims seeking compensation have died since filing claims after the spill. As a corporation, Exxon can run out the clock against individuals with shorter life s
Read more: http://www.thedailyg...1#ixzz2RJGNFhsT


View PostRafterman, on 21 April 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

  And how do you know that this accident had anything to do with lax safety standards and oversight?  Millions of gallons of oil and other liquids move through our pipeline system every single day.  Obviously if there were widespread safety and regulatory issues, there would be a lot more problems.  Wouldn't you agree?

I would agree that there are a lot of problems (period). And you are right, I cannot say with authority what  the cause of the spill was. Perhaps if there wasn´t an almost complete media blackout over this, we would all know more about the true nature of the situation.  

View PostRafterman, on 21 April 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Will we be independent of  fossil fuels at some point in the future - sure.  But we're not there yet and to pretend we are and to put all kinds of barriers in the way of fossil fuel production and use is simply silly and frankly nothing but agenda driven politics.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if the proper amount of energy had been dedicated to this back in the 70´s, we would be a lot less dependent on oil today.


View PostRafterman, on 21 April 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Will we be independent of  fossil fuels at some point in the future - sure.  But we're not there yet and to pretend we are and to put all kinds of barriers in the way of fossil fuel production and use is simply silly and frankly nothing but agenda driven politics

But we're not there yet and to pretend we are and to put all kinds of barriers in the way of fossil fuel green energy production use is simply silly and frankly nothing but agenda driven politics

"Freedom is free of the need to feel free.
Free your mind and you ass will follow.
The kingdom of heaven is within"
G.Clinton

#12    Child of Bast

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

I don't think the problem is regulation of laws so much as it is that we have no method of updating the piping system. A lot of the pipes used have never been changed out and the material isn't going to last forever. At a much smaller scale, how often do you see just plumbing piping lasting for as long as a house is standing? I'm betting never. I think the oil industry needs to seriously consider laying new piping and rerouting what's existing to the new pipes. It's not really feasible to build where people aren't living because people will eventually live there. People live where they want to live, not where it's wise to live.

'A phantom,' said my Uncle Mycroft, who had just materialised, 'is essentially a heteromorphic wave pattern that gains solidity when the apparition converts thermal energy from the surroundings to visible light. It's a fascinating process and I'm amazed no one has thought of harnessing it - a holographic TV that could operate from the heat given off by an average-size guinea pig.' ~ First Among Sequels, Jasper Fforde

#13    jugoso

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:09 PM

View PostKasey2601, on 23 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

I don't think the problem is regulation of laws so much as it is that we have no method of updating the piping system. A lot of the pipes used have never been changed out and the material isn't going to last forever. At a much smaller scale, how often do you see just plumbing piping lasting for as long as a house is standing? I'm betting never. I think the oil industry needs to seriously consider laying new piping and rerouting what's existing to the new pipes. It's not really feasible to build where people aren't living because people will eventually live there. People live where they want to live, not where it's wise to live.

I would certainly agree about the pipe.
70+ year pipe + increasing carrying capacity by 50%= diaster waiting to happen.

Quote


ExxonMobil owns and operates the Pegasus pipeline, a 20-inch diameter pipe that is 858 miles long and is mostly buried between Patoka, Illinois, and Nederland, Texas.
Pegasus was built in the 1940s, to bring refined oil north from Texas. In 2006, ExxonMobil reversed the direction of the pipeline's flow to carry Wabasca Heavy south. In 2009, ExxonMobil increased the carrying capacity of the pipeline by 50%, to 90,000 barrels per day. Published estimates of its carrying capacity range from 80,000 to 95,000 barrels per day.

http://www.alternet....-spill?page=0,2

Edited by jugoso, 23 April 2013 - 09:12 PM.

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Free your mind and you ass will follow.
The kingdom of heaven is within"
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