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Are Ghosts Mentally Ill?


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#151    SSilhouette

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:15 PM

Very courageous of you LIgia to join this forum and I'm glad you found this thread.

Without diving too deeply into details, I can tell you I know exactly what you mean when you say you were/are living like a prisoner.  And I too have come to accept my "wardens".  I have no choice.  They follow me around and skip from host to host wherever I go.  So this last set of hosts I've decided to just embrace and have fun with.  That is my warrior's path.

In fact it's a lot like in my dreaming.  One doesn't like to confront fearsome things or oppressive things.  But that is my lot for sure.  So in dreaming I have learned over many decades [I'm an old monkey too], to feel the fear, face the fear and embrace the fear.  I hope that you make it to this place also.  Once you do, your demons shrink.


#152    _Only

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:07 AM

View PostJGirl, on 25 October 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

it's obvious that this thread is posing a question based on an incorrect assumption about mental illness.
mental illness is an inbalance in brain chemistry. it is a physical ailment that happens to the body. if you do not have a body you do not have a brain and you do not have a problem because you do not have a 'mental' state per se.
if the OP would like to finally concede that she is in error, that's one thing, but to keep this thread going merely to argue a point that she does not understand and refuses to understand (thereby continuing to knowingly offend those who suffer from this affliction) really puts an end to the entire discussion.

Do you work for Pfizer or what? 'Chemical imbalance' is a nice tidy package to put around a marketing campaign for crates of pills, but if you spend some time outside of that vague mentality, you will see that so many disorders of the mind are not caused by simple chemical shifts in the brain. The true causes are from certain experiences in life, which often cause their mentally unsound toll from emotional distress. The cause of PTSD is not an undesirable physical shift in the brain; that is the symptom. The cause was the negative experience, and how that person took it emotionally. To tell this person that their problem is simply a chemical imbalance that needs to be treated with some pill is just not getting to the root of the problem. This is why I will always put psychologists high above any psychiatrist. The former seeks to understand the underlying causes and fix things from the ground up. The latter seeks to choose a 'quick fix' in my opinion, which is avoiding the root problem, and attempting to physically trick the mind into feeling alright. And this so rarely is able to really help the patient.

As a related example, if a young child is riding their bike and someone sees them, takes it, and throws it to the ground, that child will get sad. Now would you say that this child gets sad because of a chemical reaction in their brain? Of course not, even though this is true. It's true, but it isn't the cause of the sadness. This child seeing the bike he loved get thrown to the ground by a stranger was the cause of the problem, which in turn caused a chemical change in the brain, resulting in sadness. But to chalk this experience and resulting negative emotion to pure physical chemistry in the brain is so so wrong. 'Mental illness' is often started the same way as my example above. A negative experience in someone's life changing the way they think and act mentally. I know from experience. Which is why I also take offense to your assumption that anyone who may have any 'afflictions' themself would be offended by the question she has posed.

Maybe some mental illness can be completely caused solely by a random change in the brain chemicals. But I know personally, and the OP seems to realize, that many cases are not caused by a sudden random change in brain chemistry, but by tragic or emotionally harmful events in ones life. Which gives a solid background sentence for the question the OP raises, about ghosts, which are commonly suspected to be results of a tragic or emotionally harmful event.

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#153    coldethyl

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:58 PM

View Post_Only, on 08 December 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

Do you work for Pfizer or what? 'Chemical imbalance' is a nice tidy package to put around a marketing campaign for crates of pills, but if you spend some time outside of that vague mentality, you will see that so many disorders of the mind are not caused by simple chemical shifts in the brain. The true causes are from certain experiences in life, which often cause their mentally unsound toll from emotional distress. The cause of PTSD is not an undesirable physical shift in the brain; that is the symptom. The cause was the negative experience, and how that person took it emotionally. To tell this person that their problem is simply a chemical imbalance that needs to be treated with some pill is just not getting to the root of the problem. This is why I will always put psychologists high above any psychiatrist. The former seeks to understand the underlying causes and fix things from the ground up. The latter seeks to choose a 'quick fix' in my opinion, which is avoiding the root problem, and attempting to physically trick the mind into feeling alright. And this so rarely is able to really help the patient.

As a related example, if a young child is riding their bike and someone sees them, takes it, and throws it to the ground, that child will get sad. Now would you say that this child gets sad because of a chemical reaction in their brain? Of course not, even though this is true. It's true, but it isn't the cause of the sadness. This child seeing the bike he loved get thrown to the ground by a stranger was the cause of the problem, which in turn caused a chemical change in the brain, resulting in sadness. But to chalk this experience and resulting negative emotion to pure physical chemistry in the brain is so so wrong. 'Mental illness' is often started the same way as my example above. A negative experience in someone's life changing the way they think and act mentally. I know from experience. Which is why I also take offense to your assumption that anyone who may have any 'afflictions' themself would be offended by the question she has posed.

Maybe some mental illness can be completely caused solely by a random change in the brain chemicals. But I know personally, and the OP seems to realize, that many cases are not caused by a sudden random change in brain chemistry, but by tragic or emotionally harmful events in ones life. Which gives a solid background sentence for the question the OP raises, about ghosts, which are commonly suspected to be results of a tragic or emotionally harmful event.

You know what?  Never mind.  This is the last time I will give this thread attention by giving it hit counts.

Edited by coldethyl, 08 December 2012 - 04:02 PM.


#154    Cassea

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:50 PM

View Post_Only, on 08 December 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

Do you work for Pfizer or what? 'Chemical imbalance' is a nice tidy package to put around a marketing campaign for crates of pills, but if you spend some time outside of that vague mentality, you will see that so many disorders of the mind are not caused by simple chemical shifts in the brain. The true causes are from certain experiences in life, which often cause their mentally unsound toll from emotional distress. The cause of PTSD is not an undesirable physical shift in the brain; that is the symptom. The cause was the negative experience, and how that person took it emotionally. To tell this person that their problem is simply a chemical imbalance that needs to be treated with some pill is just not getting to the root of the problem. This is why I will always put psychologists high above any psychiatrist. The former seeks to understand the underlying causes and fix things from the ground up. The latter seeks to choose a 'quick fix' in my opinion, which is avoiding the root problem, and attempting to physically trick the mind into feeling alright. And this so rarely is able to really help the patient.

As a related example, if a young child is riding their bike and someone sees them, takes it, and throws it to the ground, that child will get sad. Now would you say that this child gets sad because of a chemical reaction in their brain? Of course not, even though this is true. It's true, but it isn't the cause of the sadness. This child seeing the bike he loved get thrown to the ground by a stranger was the cause of the problem, which in turn caused a chemical change in the brain, resulting in sadness. But to chalk this experience and resulting negative emotion to pure physical chemistry in the brain is so so wrong. 'Mental illness' is often started the same way as my example above. A negative experience in someone's life changing the way they think and act mentally. I know from experience. Which is why I also take offense to your assumption that anyone who may have any 'afflictions' themself would be offended by the question she has posed.

Maybe some mental illness can be completely caused solely by a random change in the brain chemicals. But I know personally, and the OP seems to realize, that many cases are not caused by a sudden random change in brain chemistry, but by tragic or emotionally harmful events in ones life. Which gives a solid background sentence for the question the OP raises, about ghosts, which are commonly suspected to be results of a tragic or emotionally harmful event.

I do believe that when trauma occurs, repetition in thoughts and feelings and reactions can shift the patterns in the brain and cause a chemical reaction.  It can be a combination of both.  I have made bad choices in life that I would not have done years ago. This is based on me "not being myself."  Which is related to changes in brain chemistry.  This is why I felt the thread was interesting.  If a ghost has a permeation of feeling not like themselves.  They may not have realized they had died.

Understanding Traumatic Brain Injury communication issues.   http://www.asha.org/.../#comm_problems

#155    DancingCorpse

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:37 AM

At the very basic level, serotonin is depleted during episodes of depression, depressive symptoms can fuel excesses of adrenaline and bring great stress to the body. It depends on the severity each individual feels they are affected by it long term. I know it is very early in the understanding of the intricate mechanics and working of the brain but we know how certain things affect balance of cognition, perception, mood and emotion intensity etc Mental illness certainly has physical roots. We used to believe those who suffer were perhaps possessed by demons or simply 'mad' regardless of the level of the symptoms and they were told to sit outside for fresh air, sedated, lobotomized and separated from society with the real crazy folks believing they were just a freak or attention seeking and everything in between.

It's still a stigma (in my personal opinion, guess it depends on what kinda environments and values you hold) but nothing compared to how it used to be. I feel it's a very beautiful and sad thing that we have got at least partly to the causes of mental illness and getting better at helping and understanding, It's quite distressing that it's taken a long time at other folks expense. It's a very human thing, regardless of if one suffers or does not, appreciating and accepting the details is a great reward and helps all become closer as a race.

The causes of the symptoms are what need focusing on, not quick fixes or new scenery, if that isn't honestly inspected then a person will never be free from the patterns that originally caused the state of mind. Medical and psychological help are priceless opportunities if used wisely. The physical will manifest in the mental, it is in tandem, if you drink sewage you will feel sick, if you feed yourself negativity and stress, you will feel awful (even if it is repressed).

Edited by DancingCorpse, 12 December 2012 - 12:47 AM.

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#156    rapture

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:27 AM

Humans are social... disembodied or not. From my experice with human ghost, the frustration and crazy stems from the inability to communicate effectively with the embodied. Yet another division of humanity.


#157    Blueguardian

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:32 PM

I don't think that ghosts are mentally ill, I believe that some are trapped here by other ones or darker forces, some don't even know they're dead, some do loops of their last moments and probably don't realise it, others do things to be remembered and some other ones don't want to leave. That's not to say that some ghosts could still be mentally ill  if they were in life, I don't know really. Just my thoughts.

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#158    Angelof222

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:00 AM

I agree if something no longer has a brain then how could it have a mental illness , I always wonder these things whe I watch these "reality" Ghost shows..like how can you see a ghost with a blue dress if she doesn't have a body or clothes and how can the hear without ears or speak with no mouth ? anyone ??? lol


#159    thewild

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:29 AM

An interesting read. I have often pondered as to the "why" of the seeming projection of emotion from ghosts and manifestations. The mind is a fascinating thing. Emotion is intoxicating and often we are ruled by it. Why not residual energies as well, feeding off of our alive, physical emotional storms and passions? Perhaps that is why so many poltergeists and ghosties love handing around pubescent tween girls? DRAMA lol

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#160    SSilhouette

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

Quote

Do you work for Pfizer or what? 'Chemical imbalance' is a nice tidy package to put around a marketing campaign for crates of pills, but if you spend some time outside of that vague mentality, you will see that so many disorders of the mind are not caused by simple chemical shifts in the brain. The true causes are from certain experiences in life, which often cause their mentally unsound toll from emotional distress. The cause of PTSD is not an undesirable physical shift in the brain; that is the symptom. The cause was the negative experience, and how that person took it emotionally. To tell this person that their problem is simply a chemical imbalance that needs to be treated with some pill is just not getting to the root of the problem. This is why I will always put psychologists high above any psychiatrist. The former seeks to understand the underlying causes and fix things from the ground up. The latter seeks to choose a 'quick fix' in my opinion, which is avoiding the root problem, and attempting to physically trick the mind into feeling alright. And this so rarely is able to really help the patient.

Good points only!  And thanks for the support too. :tu:

Quote

I agree if something no longer has a brain then how could it have a mental illness , I always wonder these things whe I watch these "reality" Ghost shows..like how can you see a ghost with a blue dress if she doesn't have a body or clothes and how can the hear without ears or speak with no mouth ? anyone ??? lol

Angel of 222, I am stuck on this one too.  Check out this thread I started about when people saw my doppleganger.  http://www.unexplain...opic=232445&hl= The weirdest thing to me was how people saw the clothes I was wearing too.  This gets really weirdly deep into physicality being a mental projection.  The one incident where I "split apart" on my front porch and half of me went to feed horses while the other half went in to shower I recall cleraly just before it happened.  I was so exhausted that I was literally asleep on my feet [I believe dopplegangers, sleep, death and ghosts are all related states].  I stood on the porch REALLY wanting a shower and also REALLY not wanting to have to go feed once I was clean and my muscles relaxed from a nice hot shower.  So looking back, perhaps in my dazed state, near death [I later found out I was so anemic I might need a transfusion] and exhausted, my "ghost' popped out.

People say that ghosts sometimes feel or act 'residual'...of old habits in life.  I know I go into "autopilot" when I do some tasks even today.  There is a school of thought that says the soul is separate from the personality/flesh host/mind/body/physical.  If you think of it like how energy flows through a computer that then does things and runs certain programs, it makes sense.  The energy isn't the computer, nor is the computer the energy.  But the energy is as real as the computer and the two working together give us our real day to day working programs.  Like the one I'm using to type this here right now.  The energy can manifest in different areas in different ways without the computer, but no computer will run without energy.

Back to the doppleganger.  What I experienced and have memory of of that incident from the porch was going in and gathering my clothes.  The spiritual "me" had decided on that.  Meanwhile the physical me went into autopilot to go feed at the same time.  How do I know this?  From the perspective of the onlookers.  The two girls saw me in my complete physicality, dressed in my work clothes covered in drywall mud, walking out to the stalls to feed.  Yet when one came into my room to get the phone, she did not see me at all.  This is why she screamed loudest when seconds later I walked out of that room through the only door she had just come in, with an armload of clean clothes.  The part I'm stumped on is the "physical me" was a mere projection, as it did no work at all.  There was, later, no hay in the mangers or pellets, no evidence of the "physical solid me" having done anything.  Meanwhile the invisible thinking me, the one that has memory of the events, actually produced an armload of clothes!  How about that to twist your mind around?

It might explain why some hauntings are things moving around and others are mere "going through the motions" visible projections?


#161    _Only

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:20 PM

View PostSSilhouette, on 20 January 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

Good points only!  And thanks for the support too. :tu:



Angel of 222, I am stuck on this one too.  Check out this thread I started about when people saw my doppleganger.  http://www.unexplain...opic=232445&hl= The weirdest thing to me was how people saw the clothes I was wearing too.  This gets really weirdly deep into physicality being a mental projection.  The one incident where I "split apart" on my front porch and half of me went to feed horses while the other half went in to shower I recall cleraly just before it happened.  I was so exhausted that I was literally asleep on my feet [I believe dopplegangers, sleep, death and ghosts are all related states].  I stood on the porch REALLY wanting a shower and also REALLY not wanting to have to go feed once I was clean and my muscles relaxed from a nice hot shower.  So looking back, perhaps in my dazed state, near death [I later found out I was so anemic I might need a transfusion] and exhausted, my "ghost' popped out.

People say that ghosts sometimes feel or act 'residual'...of old habits in life.  I know I go into "autopilot" when I do some tasks even today.  There is a school of thought that says the soul is separate from the personality/flesh host/mind/body/physical.  If you think of it like how energy flows through a computer that then does things and runs certain programs, it makes sense.  The energy isn't the computer, nor is the computer the energy.  But the energy is as real as the computer and the two working together give us our real day to day working programs.  Like the one I'm using to type this here right now.  The energy can manifest in different areas in different ways without the computer, but no computer will run without energy.

Back to the doppleganger.  What I experienced and have memory of of that incident from the porch was going in and gathering my clothes.  The spiritual "me" had decided on that.  Meanwhile the physical me went into autopilot to go feed at the same time.  How do I know this?  From the perspective of the onlookers.  The two girls saw me in my complete physicality, dressed in my work clothes covered in drywall mud, walking out to the stalls to feed.  Yet when one came into my room to get the phone, she did not see me at all.  This is why she screamed loudest when seconds later I walked out of that room through the only door she had just come in, with an armload of clean clothes.  The part I'm stumped on is the "physical me" was a mere projection, as it did no work at all.  There was, later, no hay in the mangers or pellets, no evidence of the "physical solid me" having done anything.  Meanwhile the invisible thinking me, the one that has memory of the events, actually produced an armload of clothes!  How about that to twist your mind around?

It might explain why some hauntings are things moving around and others are mere "going through the motions" visible projections?

I'm reading a book that states that it's completely possible and natural to send out a projection of your consciousness whenever you think or feel about any place or situation a strong amount. They called it thought projections, and explained it really as sending out a part of yourself just by directing your thought strongly to it

. Now I'm not saying I know it's true or not, but in this case, it can be seen as more of a natural projection of consciousness that creates 'ghosts' or 'spirits', which could just be thought or emotional projections sent out, most likely unknowingly, by someone who was thinking about or doing the act the 'spirit' is seen doing, or thinking fondly (or often the opposite) of a certain place. They could be seen as pieces of you sent out. Which coincidentally is what I think we are, similar pieces send out of something greater. Each with our own individual part of consciousness, but sharing another with something greater. But that's not for this thread.

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#162    CRIPTIC CHAMELEON

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:13 PM

Ha ha I love that title. :yes:


#163    _Only

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:57 AM

Here's a bit of what I was talking about from that book, which is quoted in this paranormal blog page I found . It really goes with the spirit of this thread:

Quote

Seth addresses the topic of "ghosts" in "Seth Speaks"



I thought this was interesting, and it's consistent with what I've read from reliable sources. In a nutshell, Seth ascribes many appearances of ghosts to projections of disturbed, deceased personalities who, unwittingly, send out thought forms to their former "haunts":

There are obviously as many kinds of ghosts and apparitions as there are people. They are as alert or as unalert to their situation as you are to your own. They are not fully focused in physical reality, however, either in personality or in form, and this is their main distinction. Some apparitions are thought-forms sent by survival personalities out of lingering deep anxiety. They portray the same compulsive-type behavior that can be seen in many instances in your ordinary experience.

The same mechanism that causes a disturbed woman, say, to perform repetitive action such as a constant washing and rewashing of hands, also causes a particular kind of apparition to return time and time again to one place. In such cases the behavior is often composed of repetitive action.

For various reasons, such a personality has not learned to assimilate its own experience. The characteristics of such apparitions follow those of a disturbed personality - with some exceptions, however. The whole consciousness is not present. The personality itself seems to be having a nightmare, or a series of recurring dreams, during which it returns to the physical environment. The personality itself is "safe and sound," but certain portions of it work out unresolved problems, and discharge energy in such a fashion.

They are in themselves quite harmless. Only your interpretation of their actions can cause difficulties.



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#164    rrainn

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

I strongly Agree,
ILLNESSES ARE OF THE FLESH........
its your soul that defines you . Ghost:& hauntings ; I was taught (Ghost are people that died) .And have not crossed over yet so ,if you where mean & cranky, alive, wouldn't it be safe to say same when ya die the sameapplies?   For what ever the reason  Ghost have choosen not to cross . as (ie) afaid to meet their maker,or want to get a message to  ?   or want to be by & wait for someone-   or just can not let go...A thousand reasons ....It really doesn't have to be ,like the dark side got them ...although some......  (Don't take me wronge, their are some nasty things earth bound that are meant to distract)

Spirits: have crossed and I believe they can  substanuate..(is that  a word ...yes) they can move thru the veils. Or progect themselfs in a loving -helpin' manner.
most likely ,even where you crossed over to  the (+) or the (-)

Shadow people  believe...well there are may types......... !
   Thats another topic

Edited by rrainn, 24 January 2013 - 01:24 PM.


#165    rrainn

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:21 PM

A 'residual' haunt is not an intelligant  haunt . takin' as a Ghost haunting a place or person. It's like if you mashed your hand down on a record, ..and the record  will keep sKipping.
its stuck in a groove..... and insidental.....

Edited by rrainn, 24 January 2013 - 01:25 PM.





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